Attorney sues Portsmouth police over gun license denial! We need to follow this case

[Len-2A Training]

As a person who recently moved to NH, your statement above is flat out wrong.

The idea of moving to a free(er) state than MA is that when a CoP tries to abuse his/her authority, anybody can take them to court AND WIN. And on the matter of a Pistol/Revolver License, if the court decides in the favor of the plaintiff, the CoP usually has to pay the legal costs out of their own pocket, which in the past had a strong impact on the behavior of the CoP's who lost - they either stopped abusing the process. When they did not stop because of their own checkbook being affected, they were talked to/fired by the town who did not want to keep paying to defend themselves in courts only to lose again and again, or in one case the CoP abdicated his/her authority to issue any more licenses and passed the responsibility to the town selectmen.

There will always be a government agent who wants to bend the laws - part of the reason why people move away from MA is that the MA courts consistently bend the law like a pretzel in order to rule in favor of the CoP...

The Comm2A cases are great and Comm2A deserves tons of support for doing all that work for free (no Comm2A member is paid a dime - all donations go to their mission), but please note that they need to fund raise heavily to pick a few selected fights, and in the meantime the vast majority of MA residents whose rights are trampled still do not have legal recourse.

The bolded part above is the most important for everyone to ruminate on!

In MA, the courts will almost always rule for the chief, regardless of how egregious their actions are. And even if you win, NOBODY reimburses your legal expenses . . . which are magnitudes greater than complying with almost any totally unreasonable request by your local (MA) chief.

NH has a mechanism to recover legal fees, a HUGE difference. NH courts also support the laws as written and don't go along with every renegade chief who wants to "assert my authori-tay"! In NH no tin-pot dictator can remove your 2A right to possess guns or even carry them, which is another huge difference! Even if you piss off your chief and take him to court and win, he really can't "get even" with you later (again unlike in MA)!

-----------------

Human beings being what we are, you will always find some that will follow the law religiously, some who are personally driven to "create their own law" and have huge egos, and some who will look for ways to "bend the law" to fit their wishes but won't go too overboard in the hopes that they won't get called on it. This is true regardless of your chosen profession and police are no different from any other profession . . . you deal with the good, the bad and the ugly! This doesn't change due to what state you are in, people are just people regardless of where they live.

-----------------

Try to keep these differences in perspective.

 

[Serapis]

I believe Dr Grant or someone else explained it once awhile back during the constitutional carry attempt. Basically, NH has suitability language in the text of the law but the NHSC has basically clarified that to mean not a PP. That is a very basic explanation from memory.

Thank you

From many threads on this subject, the appeals process in NH is weighed heavily in favor of the applicant, not the town/PD. I think the PD has far greater burden of proof than in MA.

Thank you

You might try phrasing your question in a little less argumentative/insulting manner. If you're serious and not just stirring things up, this is covered in the New Hampshire Laws forum in depth. Study it out.

Easy francis. Like I said, it was an honest question. Sorry it offended you.

Now that I have things clarified, I thank the people that decided help. I thought I read OC was cool but required a permit. Good to know. Hope you guys fend off the moon bats before they infect the whole state like MA.

 

[soloman02]

As a person who recently moved to NH, your statement above is flat out wrong.

The idea of moving to a free(er) state than MA is that when a CoP tries to abuse his/her authority, anybody can take them to court AND WIN. And on the matter of a Pistol/Revolver License, if the court decides in the favor of the plaintiff, the CoP usually has to pay the legal costs out of their own pocket, which in the past had a strong impact on the behavior of the CoP's who lost - they either stopped abusing the process. When they did not stop because of their own checkbook being affected, they were talked to/fired by the town who did not want to keep paying to defend themselves in courts only to lose again and again, or in one case the CoP abdicated his/her authority to issue any more licenses and passed the responsibility to the town selectmen.

There will always be a government agent who wants to bend the laws - part of the reason why people move away from MA is that the MA courts consistently bend the law like a pretzel in order to rule in favor of the CoP...

The Comm2A cases are great and Comm2A deserves tons of support for doing all that work for free (no Comm2A member is paid a dime - all donations go to their mission), but please note that they need to fund raise heavily to pick a few selected fights, and in the meantime the vast majority of MA residents whose rights are trampled still do not have legal recourse.

The bolded part above is the most important for everyone to ruminate on!

In MA, the courts will almost always rule for the chief, regardless of how egregious their actions are. And even if you win, NOBODY reimburses your legal expenses . . . which are magnitudes greater than complying with almost any totally unreasonable request by your local (MA) chief.

NH has a mechanism to recover legal fees, a HUGE difference. NH courts also support the laws as written and don't go along with every renegade chief who wants to "assert my authori-tay"! In NH no tin-pot dictator can remove your 2A right to possess guns or even carry them, which is another huge difference! Even if you piss off your chief and take him to court and win, he really can't "get even" with you later (again unlike in MA)!

-----------------

Human beings being what we are, you will always find some that will follow the law religiously, some who are personally driven to "create their own law" and have huge egos, and some who will look for ways to "bend the law" to fit their wishes but won't go too overboard in the hopes that they won't get called on it. This is true regardless of your chosen profession and police are no different from any other profession . . . you deal with the good, the bad and the ugly! This doesn't change due to what state you are in, people are just people regardless of where they live.

-----------------

Try to keep these differences in perspective.

You guys said it far more eloquently than me. +1.

 

[Serapis]

The bolded part above is the most important for everyone to ruminate on!

In MA, the courts will almost always rule for the chief, regardless of how egregious their actions are. And even if you win, NOBODY reimburses your legal expenses . . . which are magnitudes greater than complying with almost any totally unreasonable request by your local (MA) chief.

NH has a mechanism to recover legal fees, a HUGE difference. NH courts also support the laws as written and don't go along with every renegade chief who wants to "assert my authori-tay"! In NH no tin-pot dictator can remove your 2A right to possess guns or even carry them, which is another huge difference! Even if you piss off your chief and take him to court and win, he really can't "get even" with you later (again unlike in MA)!

-----------------

Human beings being what we are, you will always find some that will follow the law religiously, some who are personally driven to "create their own law" and have huge egos, and some who will look for ways to "bend the law" to fit their wishes but won't go too overboard in the hopes that they won't get called on it. This is true regardless of your chosen profession and police are no different from any other profession . . . you deal with the good, the bad and the ugly! This doesn't change due to what state you are in, people are just people regardless of where they live.

-----------------

Try to keep these differences in perspective.

Good post LenS +1

 

[DispositionMatrix]

What are the odds that an attorney would pick three references who would all be uncommunicative? Pratt is trying to make a case to get rid of the references requirement. That would be fine with me, but the fact that Pratt would risk his own LTC for a court case leads me to believe that he does not personally care whether or not his LTC gets renewed. Lawyers have to be dispassionate about these kinds of things.

 

[WatchCityCPA]

What are the odds that an attorney would pick three references who would all be uncommunicative? Pratt is trying to make a case to get rid of the references requirement. That would be fine with me, but the fact that Pratt would risk his own LTC for a court case leads me to believe that he does not personally care whether or not his LTC gets renewed. Lawyers have to be dispassionate about these kinds of things.

This is not a MA License To Carry - merely a NH Pistol/Revolver License.

There is not that much at risk in the case, as the law clearly states that the license has to be granted AND even if the case is somehow lost in the courts (and the odds of that are basically zero), the plaintiff can apply again and ask their references to return calls... not that will be necessary.

Since your opinion above is based on your apparent lack of understanding of the facts in this case, I will not address it specifically.

 

[Mr Weebles]

What are the odds that an attorney would pick three references who would all be uncommunicative? Pratt is trying to make a case to get rid of the references requirement. That would be fine with me, but the fact that Pratt would risk his own LTC for a court case leads me to believe that he does not personally care whether or not his LTC gets renewed. Lawyers have to be dispassionate about these kinds of things.

Meh. The Weare PD called all three of my references but never spoke to any of them live. They left voicemails for them but issued me the license even though they didn't hear back.

 

[Nick Fury]

What are the odds that an attorney would pick three references who would all be uncommunicative? Pratt is trying to make a case to get rid of the references requirement. That would be fine with me, but the fact that Pratt would risk his own LTC for a court case leads me to believe that he does not personally care whether or not his LTC gets renewed. Lawyers have to be dispassionate about these kinds of things.

Where is the risk to his permit? You mean this week? Worst case is a ruling requiring references who respond to get one. Big loss for all of us but who can't provide that?

I do wholeheartedly agree that this was a planned event however. On both sides.

 

[goodzilla]

I do wholeheartedly agree that this was a planned event however. On both sides.

Yah, I agree. I hope the chief is involved, it stinks like the sweet smell of freedom.

 

[DispositionMatrix]

This is not a MA License To Carry - merely a NH Pistol/Revolver License.

Who the hell said this was about MA? It is a Portsmouth, NH case. "LTC" is just a succinct moniker. If you want to require that "NH Pistol/Revolver License" be used throughout the thread you might want to ask the mods to enforce that for you.

Since your opinion above is based on your apparent lack of understanding of the facts in this case,...

False.

- - - Updated - - -

Meh. The Weare PD called all three of my references but never spoke to any of them live. They left voicemails for them but issued me the license even though they didn't hear back.

Mine were ignored.

 

[soloman02]

Today is the hearing on this.

Any updates? I'm not seeing anything on WMUR or seacoast online.

 

[inerlogic]

LOL NH FAIL

 

[soloman02]

LOL NH FAIL

Fail yourself.

I'd like to see how it works out for you in Mass if a CoP denies or revokes your license.

 

[Riverside]

I don't see any good coming from posters who are bickering NH versus MA. Please! These actions by the police will affect all of us in some way or another. It's beyond rude for any gun-owner and alleged supporter of the 2A to gloat over another person's trials and tribulations. United we stand, divided we fall!
Best regards.

 

[DemonChronicles]

Fail yourself.

I'd like to see how it works out for you in Mass if a CoP denies or revokes your license.

Geez man, switch to decaf or something.

 

[ScottS]

Fail yourself.

I'd like to see how it works out for you in Mass if a CoP denies or revokes your license.

I'm not even sure what he means here.

Are we a fail because we have one moonbat who wants to make trouble? It's not like we can have a bounty on them.

Are we a fail because we have legal recourse when a moonbat CLEO flaunts the law? Doesn't seem like a fail.

I mean, it was a pretty insightful comment. Maybe I'm just too dense to get it.

 

[Hiltonizer]

I mean, it was a pretty insightful comment. Maybe I'm just too dense to get it.

Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[drgrant]

I think he just trolled you guys and you sucked for it hook, line and sinker. Whats this happen, like maybe 5 times a year in NH, maybe? The state where the only valid suitability denial consists of a guy who can't get an NH P/R license because he stabbed someone and got away with it... and even -that- man still has possession and OC rights, at least.

-Mike

 

[Kevin_NH]

Yah, I agree. I hope the chief is involved, it stinks like the sweet smell of freedom.

Unlikely that the CoP is in on it. Can't say for sure since Chief Stephen DuBois is new to Portsmouth and we don't know his politics, but given the quotes in the newspaper articles and a legal complaint where Randall Pratt is asking to collect damages from the chief (as provided for in the RSA), it's doubtful he is a willing participant.

Prosecutor Rena DiLando is scheduled to represent Portsmouth police at Tuesday's hearing and said when Pratt's pistol license renewal was denied, none of his three references returned police calls. Therefore, DiLando said, Pratt's application was incomplete. "Without all of the information requested, the police chief cannot make a determination about an applicant's suitability to carry a concealed and loaded firearm," DiLando said. "Our department does not deny people out of hand."

Anybody feel like calling Prosecutor Rena DiLando for a quote?

I don't see any good coming from posters who are bickering NH versus MA. Please! These actions by the police will affect all of us in some way or another. It's beyond rude for any gun-owner and alleged supporter of the 2A to gloat over another person's trials and tribulations. United we stand, divided we fall!

As long as there are sour grapes from MA folks posting "NH is just MA north, give up, the sky is falling!", there will be replies from NH to bicker with them. It's the natural order of things.

 

[RadiCS]

I couldn't find any update either.

 

[WatchCityCPA]

Gentlemen,

Not much is going to happen at the first hearing... but whatever happened should have been covered by the local press (since the case had press attention even before the first hearing) so we should get news reports tomorrow.

Do not expect much in terms of conclusions though... but IANAL, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[soloman02]

I think he just trolled you guys and you sucked for it hook, line and sinker. Whats this happen, like maybe 5 times a year in NH, maybe? The state where the only valid suitability denial consists of a guy who can't get an NH P/R license because he stabbed someone and got away with it... and even -that- man still has possession and OC rights, at least.

-Mike

He may very well have trolled. But until a CoP is actually able to get away with something like this, it is not a fail, hence my comment (because we all know how Mass CoPs flaunt the law and how you're very likely to not get any legal fees back in Mass even if you win).

Its nice that Comm2A is able to help, but they pick their cases very strictly and it is no guarantee that you will even have them by your side and even if you do, it may take a loss in a lower court for them to help. That is not a slight against Comm2A, just a reality of things.

 

[WatchCityCPA]

The hearing was delayed from the original schedule and will be held is at 2pm today at Seabrook.

NH CIRCUIT COURT
10th Circuit – District Division – Seabrook
130 Ledge Road
Seabrook NH 03874

If anybody wants to attend the proceedings in person, this would be the time and place - I cannot make it.

 

[soloman02]

The hearing was delayed from the original schedule and will be held is at 2pm today at Seabrook.

NH CIRCUIT COURT
10th Circuit – District Division – Seabrook
130 Ledge Road
Seabrook NH 03874

If anybody wants to attend the proceedings in person, this would be the time and place - I cannot make it.

I don't see anything in the media yet. Also why would the case be held in Seabrook? The Portsmouth circuit court has jurisdiction no?

 

[jibbr71]

I don't see anything in the media yet. Also why would the case be held in Seabrook? The Portsmouth circuit court has jurisdiction no?

Could the Portsmouth court have recused itself, changed the venue to kill any thoughts of favoritism?


Sent from my phone....which isn't really a phone anymore, it's a computer on my pocket

 

[Bonesinium]

I don't see anything in the media yet. Also why would the case be held in Seabrook? The Portsmouth circuit court has jurisdiction no?

They are both the 10th circuit, maybe it is being held in Seabrook as opposed to Portsmouth because the City of Portsmouth is involved. I wouldn't want a Portsmouth Judge that possibly works with the Portsmouth PD hearing the case.

 

[soloman02]

Could the Portsmouth court have recused itself, changed the venue to kill any thoughts of favoritism?


Sent from my phone....which isn't really a phone anymore, it's a computer on my pocket

They are both the 10th circuit, maybe it is being held in Seabrook as opposed to Portsmouth because the City of Portsmouth is involved. I wouldn't want a Portsmouth Judge that possibly works with the Portsmouth PD hearing the case.

That thought didn't even cross my mind. I think you guys may be right.

 

[David Balkus]

Bump..Ok,I gutsta know..Does anyone know if I can just go up to the court in the morning and pull the docket?

 

[WatchCityCPA]

Bump..Ok,I gutsta know..Does anyone know if I can just go up to the court in the morning and pull the docket?

When the case is over I'll do just that: go there, scan the documents and publish them - they are public info.

 

[David Balkus]

Thank you so much..I figured it was a one and done..Do you know if it is going to be a protracted trial..30 days type thing to issue a finding?