Attorney sues Portsmouth police over gun license denial! We need to follow this case

[Boghog1]

whatever helps you sleep at night, all I'm getting at, is that it is happening I'm not saying I'm glad it is, I've never wished for it to happen, I'm just basically saying told ya so. I'm glad this guy is pushing back, but it troubles me even more that he has to. The whole idea behind moving to a place like NH is that you don't have to put up with this crap.

it has been happening since the founding of the republic, most recently we had a police chief in Weare and Sunapee, the cheif in Weare is gone and the one in Sunapee was spoken to by state officials. Unlike Gemee or however you spell his name.

 

[Mr_Irritating]

Link Please

Found it. http://www.mega.nu/ccwappeal.html

 

[Garys]

Found it. http://www.mega.nu/ccwappeal.html

It would be nice to read the entirety of the statement from the court. That's not a criticism of you, but of the person who posted the story.

Can someone explain if NH requires the police to check the references or if the form just requires them to be entered on the form? It seems like a gray area, which might be the reason for the suit.

I don't recall that any of my references were ever contacted for my NH non resident permit.

 

[soloman02]

Really? Does Fletcher v. Haas ring a bell? What about Jarvis vs Village Vault? Or perhaps Grover vs. Mazzie plus a few others. What have I been writing all these Comm2A checks to attorneys for?

If that doesn't count for "suing over much of anything", I can assure you that those of you who donate to Comm2a will be pleased with some of our upcoming projects.

Fair enough. But I never hear anyone championing these cases. Everyone here likes to shit on NH when ever someone goes to court, yet fails to realize that this shit goes on all over the country, including such "free" states such as Texas. I'd be willing to be that NH doesn't have nearly the number of problems with licensing compared to other states, and certainly not nearly the number of problems with the 4th amendment.

 

[soloman02]

Found it. http://www.mega.nu/ccwappeal.html

It would be nice to read the entirety of the statement from the court. That's not a criticism of you, but of the person who posted the story.

Can someone explain if NH requires the police to check the references or if the form just requires them to be entered on the form? It seems like a gray area, which might be the reason for the suit.

I don't recall that any of my references were ever contacted for my NH non resident permit.

How do we know this website isn't full on bullshit? I see no reference to an NH court case (in the format plaintiff v defendant, or a docket number) that the author of this webpage is referencing. No one can verify anything that is said unless we can find it somewhere else.

 

[Mr_Irritating]

How do we know this website isn't full on bullshit? I see no reference to an NH court case (in the format plaintiff v defendant, or a docket number) that the author of this webpage is referencing. No one can verify anything that is said unless we can find it somewhere else.

I stumbled upon that website when I was looking into the requirement of references on the application after I moved to NH. I never made an effort to dig deeper.

 

[Garys]

How do we know this website isn't full on bullshit? I see no reference to an NH court case (in the format plaintiff v defendant, or a docket number) that the author of this webpage is referencing. No one can verify anything that is said unless we can find it somewhere else.

That was my point. It might be true, it might be BS.

If the state requires that references are placed on a form, then the PD should be required to make a reasonable effort to contact them. If the references can't be contacted, then there should be a rule on what happens next.

Maybe that's what the law suit is about.

 

[Serapis]

I'g ignent [sic]

I thought NH was a shall issue. Now it seems you have a suitability clause?

Can someone explain to me how this works, and how its different to MA. Honest question because I am confused on how people call this a free state?

 

[soloman02]

I stumbled upon that website when I was looking into the requirement of references on the application after I moved to NH. I never made an effort to dig deeper.

I'll see what I can find. It would be easier if there was some language from the court decision that wasn't extremely common.

 

[soloman02]

I'g ignent [sic]

I thought NH was a shall issue. Now it seems you have a suitability clause?

Can someone explain to me how this works, and how its different to MA. Honest question because I am confused on how people call this a free state?

I believe Dr Grant or someone else explained it once awhile back during the constitutional carry attempt. Basically, NH has suitability language in the text of the law but the NHSC has basically clarified that to mean not a PP. That is a very basic explanation from memory.

 

[Kevin_NH]

I'g ignent [sic] I thought NH was a shall issue. Now it seems you have a suitability clause? Can someone explain to me how this works, and how its different to MA. Honest question because I am confused on how people call this a free state?

You might try phrasing your question in a little less argumentative/insulting manner. If you're serious and not just stirring things up, this is covered in the New Hampshire Laws forum in depth. Study it out.

 

[Garys]

I'g ignent [sic]

I thought NH was a shall issue. Now it seems you have a suitability clause?

Can someone explain to me how this works, and how its different to MA. Honest question because I am confused on how people call this a free state?

From many threads on this subject, the appeals process in NH is weighed heavily in favor of the applicant, not the town/PD. I think the PD has far greater burden of proof than in MA.

 

[atmay]

Not to mention that NH is NOT a permit-to-possess state. The ONLY thing the license is for is concealed/in-car carry. Unlike MA where your CoP can pretty easily prohibit you from even being legal to OWN a gun, nevermind carry one.

 

[Hiltonizer]

Courts will break this Chief in half. My chief is one that was previously smacked down, I applied shortly after and my application was turned around in 4 days, references never contacted... and I literally wrote "ALP" as the reason for the request.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Not to mention that NH is NOT a permit-to-possess state. The ONLY thing the license is for is concealed/in-car carry. Unlike MA where your CoP can pretty easily prohibit you from even being legal to OWN a gun, nevermind carry one.

That. I am waiting on my permit, 4 days in, and that just means my pistol has been on the outside of my tee-shirt instead of inside.

 

[06LemansC6]

Our COP doesn't check references. I spoke with him at one point about it and he agrees that nobody is going to give a bad reference it isn't worth the time to contact them. I typically receive my resident permit between 1 and 4 days. I received one within 4 hours of dropping off the application.

 

[soloman02]

I'll see what I can find. It would be easier if there was some language from the court decision that wasn't extremely common.

Its not looking good.

I googled a piece of text from his appeal and the only result was the website I got it from.

Went to the NHSC website. They have all decisions online from 1995 onward. There is only one case that was decided on the date this website mentions (may 3, 2001) and that case relates to the Claremont decision.

NHSC decision listing by year:
http://www.courts.state.nh.us/supreme/opinions/

NHSC did not release an opinion on the date he references. Either the website author messed up the date or he is lying.

 

[Mr_Irritating]

Its not looking good.

I googled a piece of text from his appeal and the only result was the website I got it from.

Went to the NHSC website. They have all decisions online from 1995 onward. There is only one case that was decided on the date this website mentions (may 3, 2001) and that case relates to the Claremont decision.

NHSC decision listing by year:
http://www.courts.state.nh.us/supreme/opinions/

NHSC did not release an opinion on the date he references. Either the website author messed up the date or he is lying.

Would they have a denial to take the case listed?

 

[Bonesinium]

Fortunately, far and away the vast majority of applicants receive their P&R license in the 14 day time-line required by law without any references being contacted. This is unusual, which is why it has spawned this thread. No state is immune from abuse of authority, sadly. Hopefully this will end up with the individual receiving his license and all legal fees, and the PPD and chief being ordered to knock this arbitrary denial crap off. If that happens, AND the department and chief do in fact knock that crap off, this would serve as a good example of the system working. This would make me happy, because I have little faith in the system actually working in general.

 

[soloman02]

Would they have a denial to take the case listed?

I'm not sure if they list cases that they deny to hear on their site. Still, the author makes no mention of the town this occured in. There is just not enough information for me to find the case in a lower court. I need text from those lower court decisions or a case number. Neither appear.

I emailed the owner of the web site, and just got a response.

He says this is the case:

Pouzzner v. Russ, Docket No. 2001-0580

I'm not finding much though (I just now did a quick search).

ETA: The plaintiff's name is Daniel Pouzzner.

 

[FrugalFannie]

Interesting as my NH nonresident renewal was just returned as incomplete for not relisting my references.

Go get them Attorney Pratt

I listed my references as 'required' on the form. The person I picked the form up from and dropped it off to told me it would 'speed things up' if I supplied phone numbers. I told them I would not and since I was a recent escapee from MA where I had waited 17 WEEKS for a RENEWAL I thought I could manage waiting the statutory 14 day MAXIMUM they have to issue or deny my license. I got my license in 11 days.

Holding the applicant responsible (by denying their license) for the lack of response from his references is not reasonable in my estimation.

 

[Billsail]

The urban moonbat mentality is creeping into free state "Urbia". Hope they nip this in the bud!

 

[Boghog1]

The urban moonbat mentality is creeping into free state "Urbia". Hope they nip this in the bud!

yep were doomed we'll never make it

 

[Mr_Irritating]

I'm not sure if they list cases that they deny to hear on their site. Still, the author makes no mention of the town this occured in. There is just not enough information for me to find the case in a lower court. I need text from those lower court decisions or a case number. Neither appear.

I emailed the owner of the web site, and just got a response.

He says this is the case:

Pouzzner v. Russ, Docket No. 2001-0580

I'm not finding much though (I just now did a quick search).

ETA: The plaintiff's name is Daniel Pouzzner.

Well done. The author does make a great argument, at least in what was posted. I'd love to see the reference requirement go away since they don't prove you have rights. I agree with the author that the existence of a right is all the authority one needs to exercise them and those rights are held by the individual not by any collective.

 

[skeetshooter]

Nh was too close to mA. And easily able to become a problem. Glad I moved out here

 

[Garys]

Nh was too close to mA. And easily able to become a problem. Glad I moved out here

Where is "here"? The wife and I are looking at options for future move. NH is way down on the list, but that's because of the weather. I hate the cold.

 

[xtry51]

This CoP is going to get his ass handed to himn court. He's a moron for pushing it this far. NH law is very clear.

 

[skeetshooter]

idaho.it's dry out so here my body hurts less. Everyone likes guns. I was so happy I decided to karma an 80% lower. It's beautiful out here as well.

 

[Garys]

idaho.it's dry out so here my body hurts less. Everyone likes guns. I was so happy I decided to karma an 80% lower. It's beautiful out here as well.

A lot of people from CA seem to retire out there. In fact, I remember reading about four LA County fire fighters who lived out there. They all got pilot licenses, bought a plane, and rearranged their schedules so they could work 96 hours straight. That meant that they did a months work in one week or so. That worked because they were brush fire fighters way out in the county and not constantly running on calls.

I seem to remember also reading that a lot of LA cops retire there.

 

[WatchCityCPA]

...The whole idea behind moving to a place like NH is that you don't have to put up with this crap.

As a person who recently moved to NH, your statement above is flat out wrong.

The idea of moving to a free(er) state than MA is that when a CoP tries to abuse his/her authority, anybody can take them to court AND WIN. And on the matter of a Pistol/Revolver License, if the court decides in the favor of the plaintiff, the CoP usually has to pay the legal costs out of their own pocket, which in the past had a strong impact on the behavior of the CoP's who lost - they either stopped abusing the process. When they did not stop because of their own checkbook being affected, they were talked to/fired by the town who did not want to keep paying to defend themselves in courts only to lose again and again, or in one case the CoP abdicated his/her authority to issue any more licenses and passed the responsibility to the town selectmen.

There will always be a government agent who wants to bend the laws - part of the reason why people move away from MA is that the MA courts consistently bend the law like a pretzel in order to rule in favor of the CoP...

The Comm2A cases are great and Comm2A deserves tons of support for doing all that work for free (no Comm2A member is paid a dime - all donations go to their mission), but please note that they need to fund raise heavily to pick a few selected fights, and in the meantime the vast majority of MA residents whose rights are trampled still do not have legal recourse.