ATF intends to reclassify and ban "armor piercing" ammo including M855

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Here, in case the link to thomas expires.
H.R.1329
Latest Title: To abolish the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, transfer its functions relating to the Federal firearms, explosives, and arson laws, violent crime, and domestic terrorism to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and transfer its functions relating to the Federal alcohol and tobacco smuggling laws to the Drug Enforcement Administration, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Sensenbrenner, F. James, Jr. [WI-5] (introduced 3/4/2015) Cosponsors (None)
Latest Major Action: 3/4/2015 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the House Committee on the Judiciary.
Jump to: Summary, Major Actions, All Actions, Titles, Cosponsors, Committees, Related Bill Details, Amendments
SUMMARY:***NONE***
MAJOR ACTIONS: ***NONE***
ALL ACTIONS: 3/4/2015:Referred to the House Committee on the Judiciary.
TITLE(S): (italics indicate a title for a portion of a bill)
  • OFFICIAL TITLE AS INTRODUCED:
    To abolish the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, transfer its functions relating to the Federal firearms, explosives, and arson laws, violent crime, and domestic terrorism to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and transfer its functions relating to the Federal alcohol and tobacco smuggling laws to the Drug Enforcement Administration, and for other purposes.
COSPONSOR(S):***NONE***
COMMITTEE(S):
RELATED BILL DETAILS:
  • ***NONE***
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Squire said:
Not sure I'd call this balanced, although factual. He's arguing that the only outcome of this is antagonizing the other side, and that Scorched Earth, Lame Duck Obama should stop else he guarantee catastrophe for Democrats in both POTUS and Congressional elections in 2016.
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That is good advice for the King but he doesn't care. Anti 2 is a loser politically but the progressive socialist wankers can't see past their own twisted ideology. And the peasants need to be disarmed before the final stage.
 
beaker said:
That is good advice for the King but he doesn't care. Anti 2 is a loser politically but the progressive socialist wankers can't see past their own twisted ideology. And the peasants need to be disarmed before the final stage.
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When they look around the world at other subject nations, it isn't a loser. I think that is why they are confused.

What is at stake is their ability to abuse power, so they won't be giving up on this.
 
bigblue said:
I disagree. That "show" is there to promote the appearance of transparency and allow public comment that they don't have to give any credence to on administrative actions that otherwise would turn the ATF into the NSA.
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FIFY

As long as an agency follows the APA, they can dismiss EVERY comment on a proposed regulation they want to and do what they want to anyways.
 
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OfficerObie59 said:
FIFY

As long as an agency follows the APA, they can dismiss EVERY comment on a proposed regulation they want to and do what they want to anyways.
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True but at least we get to read about the actions instead of them being buried in committees with no controls that will never see the light of day. The transparency is there; it is the control that is perceived instead of realized.
 
bigblue said:
True but at least we get to read about the actions instead of them being buried in committees with no controls that will never see the light of day. The transparency is there; it is the control that is perceived instead of realized.
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That's fair. But I stick with my previous point that the APA, and specifically notice and comment, is nothing more than a dog and pony show. Perhaps that wasn't the intention when the APA was passed as a check on 4th Branch post-war, but that's certainly what it's become.

Today, the APA merely stands as a "check-the-box" process to make the people feel as if they have a voice when they government is just going to do what they want to anyways.
 
OfficerObie59 said:
That's fair. But I stick with my previous point that the APA, and specifically notice and comment, is nothing more than a dog and pony show. Perhaps that wasn't the intention when the APA was passed as a check on 4th Branch post-war, but that's certainly what it's become.

Today, the APA merely stands as a "check-the-box" process to make the people feel as if they have a voice when they government is just going to do what they want to anyways.
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Agree that it's all lip service, but by following the APA the ATF's proposed changes to the requirements for NFA Trusts were delayed over a year because of the volume of comments they received.
 
Squire said:
Katie Pavlich is riled up, for good reason. Obama's lackey is so smug with her "common sense".

http://video.foxnews.com/v/41005900...ainst-proposed-atf-bullet-ban/?#sp=show-clips
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I just wish they brought up fact that most of the other "168" rounds that can be fired by an AR15 will also go right through soft body armor just as easily. Any 5.56mm/.223 round going 3,000+ feet per sec will, so the M855 is not any more dangerous. It's just more readily available and the most abundant so they want it banned....
 
Squire said:
Gov't doing what gov't does best. Creating logically inconsistent regulations which result in a Catch-22:

EPA: No lead bullets, if you don't agree, you hate wildlife conservation.
ATF: No non-lead bullets, if you don't agree, you had law enforcement and are a domestic terrorist.

Effect: ammo is banned.

Just like:

If you don't agree that gun's should be controlled, you are paranoid and anti-social, and should not be allowed to have guns.
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[laugh2]Excellent summary!
 
beaker said:
That is good advice for the King but he doesn't care. Anti 2 is a loser politically but the progressive socialist wankers can't see past their own twisted ideology. And the peasants need to be disarmed before the final stage.
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cekim said:
When they look around the world at other subject nations, it isn't a loser. I think that is why they are confused.

What is at stake is their ability to abuse power, so they won't be giving up on this.
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That is, if they are cognizant of this.
 
MajesticUSA said:
I just wish they brought up fact that most of the other "168" rounds that can be fired by an AR15 will also go right through soft body armor just as easily. Any 5.56mm/.223 round going 3,000+ feet per sec will, so the M855 is not any more dangerous. It's just more readily available and the most abundant so they want it banned....
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So will a knife blade but that's not the issue since at the moment that's not what they are after.
 
My letter to the House Judiciary Committee.
Every member is getting a copy today via mail. It's too long to post into their online contact forms.

Feel free to copy, modify, and mail or shorten and email at will.

Dear Mr Congressman,
My name is xxxxxxxxxx, and I am writing to you today to express my strong support for what is known as the ATF Elimination Act, H.R. 1329. Elimination of the bloated, unneeded agency now known as the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is long overdue. It is an agency that by its very existence stands against everything we hold dear as Americans, such as freedom, independence and self-reliance.

The history of the BATFE began back in 1886 when it was started as the “Revenue Laboratory” in the Bureau of Internal Revenue, which later became the Internal Revenue Service. For an agency that began life as more of an R&D department, it sure has seen its mission creep beyond the original intent. I won’t bore you with a long history of the BATFE, but the article at Wikipedia provides a great summary, and chronicles many of the controversies the BATFE has been a part of over the last 100+ years.
The link is provided for you here. You may have to copy and paste this into your browser to read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Alcohol,_Tobacco,_Firearms_and_Explosives
The BATFE’s power grab accelerated after alcohol prohibition was passed. It was renamed the Bureau of Prohibition, and charged with enforcing the new Constitutional amendment. It is an amendment that is now universally regarded as one of the worst mistakes and greatest embarrassments of the early 20[SUP]th[/SUP] Century. Once people came to their senses and repealed Prohibition, sadly the same was not done to the BoP. This agency continued to operate, and was given domain over enforcement of firearms laws, and another name changed ensued. Name changes and mission creep continued over the years so that what we have today is the BATFE, which is charged with enforcement of laws governing the use, manufacture and transfer of arms, tobacco and alcohol, and the investigation of arson.
I would argue that the biggest problem with this is these duties are also performed by other law enforcement agencies. Not only is their overlap with the FBI and several other federal agencies, but state and local law enforcement agencies as well. Why is over a billion dollars a year wasted in duplication of efforts? Why do we pay people and supply an agency that has no unique reason for being?
And the kicker is the way the BATFE operates. Repeatedly, its agents have been involved in controversial operations, or convinced unsuspecting individuals to commit crimes. They also issue decrees on a whim, with no justifiable argument to back up their decisions other than an embellished “we said so”. Take for instance the move by the BATFE which has inspired this very House Resolution, the attempt to ban M855 “green tip” ammunition by fiat. This ammunition does not satisfy the specifications of what constitutes an armor piercing ammunition, nor was it originally designed to be used in a handgun. Yet the BATFE feels the need to now restrict civilian access to this ammunition. Why? Just because. That’s as good a reason as any officially offered by the bureaucrats in question. And what’s been lost in this latest move that you may or may not be aware of, the BATFE pulled a similar move last year with ammunition for the AK-74 style rifle, specifically steel core 7N6 in the caliber 5.45x39. They banned importation of this inexpensive Russian surplus because someone built a pistol that can use ammunition in this caliber. This went largely unnoticed and unchallenged simply because the AK-74 is not as common as it’s more popular predecessor, the AK-47. So since the BATFE got away with this they felt they could enact the same sort of restriction with M855. They just grossly miscalculated the response to this move. How I don’t know, because this ammunition is used in not only what has become known as “America’s Rifle” the AR-15, but countless other semi-auto and bolt action rifles. They clearly overestimated what kind of power grab they could get away with.
Now let me return to the controversial operations the BATFE has run over the years. Of course there are the big ones, like the Fast and Furious scandal which still is unresolved, the Waco fiasco and the handling of the Ruby Ridge standoff. But there are countless small incidents, which were investigated and chronicled in this extensive article by the Milwaukee, Wisconsin Journal Sentinel, published December 7, 2013. If you read anything to help with your decision to release this bill for a general vote, make sure you read this. It can be read at this link: http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/wa...-across-the-nation-b99146765z1-234916641.html
The BATFE has had a questionable mission since its inception, and has clearly grown into a bloated, redundant agency that uses at-best questionable methods to continue its unneeded operations and increasing budget. The time to abolish the BATFE came long ago. Let’s make this happen now. Most of the duties of the BATFE are already duplicated or overlapped by other law enforcement agencies. Let’s eliminate this source of repeated black eyes for the government and save ourselves quite a bit of money in the process.

Thank you for your time

Respectfully Yours,

The5thDentist
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According to this, the Dems are putting together their own letter in support. As usual, it's all about dumbed down branding and tugging at the heartstrings.

Democrats, meanwhile, are circulating a letter in support of the ban what they call "cop killer" ammo. The White House also backs the ATF proposal.
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[angry]
 
Cop killer ammo that isn't responsible for a single documented cop killing in the past 45 years.
 
bigblue said:
Cop killer ammo that isn't responsible for a single documented cop killing in the past 45 years.
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Of course it hasn't. Like I mentioned earlier, most of this crap is just blunderbussing from the feds to discourage gun purchase and ownership. I know this is true because way back before I was licensed every time I thought about getting a firearm one of the things that popped into my head was this defeatist crap of "Well, there's all these goddam laws, they pretty much banned everything why even bother?" I'm sure I'm not the only person that saw all that bullshit and thought that. They do this stuff to make gun ownership look like an intimidating prospect to the average person. I think the attitude is something along the lines of like "well we know the people who grew up with guns won't care about any of this, but eventually they'll die off.... so we have to do stupid crap to discourage future generations from getting into guns".

-Mike
 
http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2...-piercing-ammunition-exemption-framework.html

ATF Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Special Advisory

Public Affairs Division – Washington, DC

March 10, 2015

Contact: Public Affairs Division

www.atf.gov

Notice to those Commenting on the Armor Piercing Ammunition Exemption Framework

Thank you for your interest in ATF's proposed framework for determining whether certain projectiles are “primarily intended for sporting purposes” within the meaning of 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(C). The informal comment period will close on Monday, March 16, 2015. ATF has already received more than 80,000 comments, which will be made publicly available as soon as practicable.

Although ATF endeavored to create a proposal that reflected a good faith interpretation of the law and balanced the interests of law enforcement, industry, and sportsmen, the vast majority of the comments received to date are critical of the framework, and include issues that deserve further study. Accordingly, ATF will not at this time seek to issue a final framework. After the close of the comment period, ATF will process the comments received, further evaluate the issues raised therein, and provide additional open and transparent process (for example, through additional proposals and opportunities for comment) before proceeding with any framework.
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[rofl] "you spoke, we listened."

https://twitter.com/ATFHQ?original_...68508&tw_i=575345683760349184&tw_p=tweetembed

ATF HQ ✔ @ATFHQ
Follow
You spoke, we listened. @ATFHQ plans more study on the proposed AP Ammo exemption framework. See more http://ow.ly/Ka7iQ


1:21 PM - 10 Mar 2015


8 Retweets 3 favorites
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aka, we'll wait until one or more of the following criteria are satisfied

1) This furor dies down and try to slip it in later
2) Resubmit under the latest SCOTUS ruling "Perez v. Mortgage Bankers Association" and not seek public comment next time
2) Ride a wave of public sentiment the next time there's an AR shooting
3) Just wait until the dems are back in charge
 
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