ATF intends to reclassify and ban "armor piercing" ammo including M855

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Somewhere in America there is a guy with an IQ of about 85 who is being chatted up about now. He's all talk and has never followed through with anything in his life, but it would be easy to goad him into a plan. Maybe he sells what can't be sold or modifies what can't be changed. Then the heroes save the day. The imagined tragedy will be averted. The AR pistols go on the table, and the media will run with it. It's been done before.
 
economist said:
Somewhere in America there is a guy with an IQ of about 85 who is being chatted up about now. He's all talk and has never followed through with anything in his life, but it would be easy to goad him into a plan. Maybe he sells what can't be sold or modifies what can't be changed. Then the heroes save the day. The imagined tragedy will be averted. The AR pistols go on the table, and the media will run with it. It's been done before.
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sigh... I hope you are wrong, but....

Sadly, they've already been caught doing this with the guy who hung around the fake storefront...
 
economist said:
Somewhere in America there is a guy with an IQ of about 85 who is being chatted up about now. He's all talk and has never followed through with anything in his life, but it would be easy to goad him into a plan. Maybe he sells what can't be sold or modifies what can't be changed. Then the heroes save the day. The imagined tragedy will be averted. The AR pistols go on the table, and the media will run with it. It's been done before.
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Or a sick kid is convinced to go to an elementary school to get revenge, with a little help from the Obama Gestapo.
 
To be clear. They're still planning to ban it. They're only saying the fact that the exemption was already removed from their published regs was a mistake
 
Duxprep said:
To be clear. They're still planning to ban it. They're only saying the fact that the exemption was already removed from their published regs was a mistake
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That very well may be the case but its quite a nugget they've handed us for all of the court cases against ATF that will follow
 
ATF intends to reclassify and ban "armor piercing" ammo including M855

I think their 237 signatures trumps our 100,000 petition even if they are all R and it should have been 400+.

Is this about to get nasty? Did the ATF just provide the R congress with precisely what they needed to flex some muscle to embarrass King Hussein?
I hope this gets good but I'm thinking somebody caves.

Maybe they haul the ATF in to 'splain themselves.
 
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Nice! Signature #129: Adrian Smith. Time to play some Iron Maiden!

But seriously, I'm interested to see what unfolds on 13 March 2015. Jones and the CoP in Lowell seem to be in similar positions.
 
bigblue said:
I think their 237 signatures trumps our 100,000 petition even if they are all R and it should have been 400+.

Is this about to get nasty? Did the ATF just provide the R congress with precisely what they needed to flex some muscle to embarrass King Hussein?
I hope this gets good but I'm thinking somebody caves.

Maybe they haul the ATF in to 'splain themselves.
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Probably won't matter anyway since the king will just get it done by EO if his backdoor plan falls through. He's not one to take his plans being foiled lying down...
 
The5thDentist said:
Bought and paid for. One head, two wings [R's and D's], same crap.
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+1

Smells bad. Feds got caught back dooring this crap and now will play out this bit of theater with the republicans ultimately rolling over.


Every alphabet agency buying up ridiculous amounts of ammo, shutting down lead smelting plants and now just plain out banning of ammo.

The masses have their "bread and circus" and will not know the rights they lose until it's too late [angry]
 
pahapoika said:
+1

Smells bad. Feds got caught back dooring this crap and now will play out this bit of theater with the republicans ultimately rolling over.


Every alphabet agency buying up ridiculous amounts of ammo, shutting down lead smelting plants and now just plain out banning of ammo.

The masses have their "bread and circus" and will not know the rights they lose until it's too late [angry]
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Gov't doing what gov't does best. Creating logically inconsistent regulations which result in a Catch-22:

EPA: No lead bullets, if you don't agree, you hate wildlife conservation.
ATF: No non-lead bullets, if you don't agree, you had law enforcement and are a domestic terrorist.

Effect: ammo is banned.

Just like:

If you don't agree that gun's should be controlled, you are paranoid and anti-social, and should not be allowed to have guns.
 
I will admit one thing: Whomever authored that letter should work at the NRA because they did a damn good job covering all of the salient points. More often than not when I see arguments against gun control the author cuts their nose off to spite their face.

In other words, arguing that the Glock LCI should be ok because xyz guns are approved with their LCI's is a very poor way to approach an argument that leaves open attacks on the supporting evidence. This author managed to outline the arguments and provided support that does not leave unrelated challenges vulnerable.

What I think will burn the ATF in the end is their ignorance of the APA. If the fools had done this by the book instead of jumping ahead of themselves they could have achieved their objective. That does leave open the question: Are they really THIS stupid and arrogant or was this done intentionally to deflect from something else? Clinton was an expert at deflecting in times of crisis: Every time there was a scandal he would send troops to attack somebody else and manufacture a crisis abroad to deflect attention from the domestic scandal/incident.

e.g. "Clinton admitted in taped grand jury testimony on August 17, 1998, that he had had an "improper physical relationship" with Lewinsky. That evening he gave a nationally televised statement admitting his relationship with Lewinsky which was "not appropriate"."

Coincidence?:
"Operation Infinite Reach, On August 20, President Clinton ordered a cruise missile attack against two suspected terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and a suspected chemical factory in Sudan."
"On September 27, 1998, America deployed a stand-by response and evacuation force of 30 U.S. military personnel to increase the security force at the U.S. Embassy in Monrovia."
"The December 1998 bombing of Iraq (code-named Operation Desert Fox) was a major four-day bombing campaign on Iraqi targets from December 16, 1998, to December 19, 1998, by the United States and United Kingdom."

I think not: Just keep bombing shit until it drowns out the domestic news.
 
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JCV said:
There's always one ****er who wants to be different and sign their name in green pen
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I forgive him, his name is Gene Green after all. [smile]


On a more serious note, didn't the NRA help write the LEOPA of 1986?
 
bigblue said:
I think their 237 signatures trumps our 100,000 petition even if they are all R and it should have been 400+.
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Shockingly, they're not all Rs. I didn't go through all of them but there's at least one D in there.
 
UPDATE - It was all just an honest mistake[rolleyes]

“Please be advised that ATF has not rescinded any armor piercing ammunition exemption, and the fact that they are not listed in the 2014 online edition of the regulations was an error which has no legal impact on the validity of the exemptions,” the ATF added. “The existing exemptions for armor piercing ammunition, which apply to 5.56 mm SS 109 and M855 projectiles… and the U.S. .30-06 M2AP projectile… remain in effect.”
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http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/03/09/atf-does-about-face-on-ammo-ban-calls-it-publishing-mistake/
 
StevieP said:
If the ATF is so worried about armor-piercing ammo, wouldn't they be better served to help develop better body armor?
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Behind the curtain they're not, really, that's all a a dog and pony show used to justify the ban. Nobody with a brain thinks that's the truth. The real reason they're doing this is because they want to constrain and choke off the ammunition market and reduce the sales of ammunition, period, in the vain hope that things like $500-600 cases of ammo will scare people away from buying AR15s and the like. The ATF is notorious for doing this stuff, we've seen it before with the OA93 debacle, even though Olympic, et al, were dumb enough to make 7.62 x 39 pistols, and even though the ATF knew that barely any of these guns made it to the market, they still used it as an excuse to ban an entire class of extremely cheap ammunition, in a vain attempt at trying to constrain the supply of ammunition and discourage sales.

-Mike
 
OfficerObie59 said:
"Dog and pony show" also happens to be a great description of he APA in general.
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I disagree. That "show" is there to promote transparency and allow public comment on administrative actions that otherwise would turn the ATF into the NSA.
 
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