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ammo storage laws?
- Thread starter EcHo
- Start date
Yup, up to the fire chief.
When I first got my permit, the chief did them for free and they expired when your LTC expired. Some 20+ years later the implemented a fee ($10) and the current chief does them for 2 years only. Still not a big deal however.
Lucky you. Mine was $40 for 1 year!
cockpitbob
NES Member
$50 :-(
Maybe this has been answered before, but there seems to be a discrepancy between vehicles and homes.
I am wondering if "control" and "direct control" restrictions also apply to ammo. Anyone know?
Clearly this thread has shown that ammo in a building must be locked up.
But you can walk into a store and buy ammo and walk out with it, and you don't have to have a carry permit, clearly. So at that point, you're possessing ammo and your ammo is not locked, you're simply carrying it.
Then you can put it in your car, in the backseat, not under your direct control, and then drive around with it, not locked up. You can even leave that ammo in your parked car while you go into a store. Right?
But then you pull into your driveway and have to make a beeline with your ammo to lock it up?
Maybe I'm missing something... or do I have some of the laws wrong?
I am wondering if "control" and "direct control" restrictions also apply to ammo. Anyone know?
Clearly this thread has shown that ammo in a building must be locked up.
But you can walk into a store and buy ammo and walk out with it, and you don't have to have a carry permit, clearly. So at that point, you're possessing ammo and your ammo is not locked, you're simply carrying it.
Then you can put it in your car, in the backseat, not under your direct control, and then drive around with it, not locked up. You can even leave that ammo in your parked car while you go into a store. Right?
But then you pull into your driveway and have to make a beeline with your ammo to lock it up?
Maybe I'm missing something... or do I have some of the laws wrong?
The CMR that dictates storage (home) of ammo are under the Fire Dept/Fire Marshal and can NOT be enforced by the PD (although some have tried).
Transportation of flammables/explosives fall under ICC/DPU (whatever they are called these days) and not under the PD (MGLs) or FD/Fire Marshal (CMRs).
Per MGLs you MUST possess a permit (LTC/FID) to possess ammo anywhere in the Commiewealth.
CMR for ammo storage dictates all ammo locked up at all times "unless in use" (or similar wording). Again, this is under the FD, not PD.
Confused enough yet?
so if you assumed that the fire department can't/won't really do much to you (or even if they do it will likely be a fine, not any kind of felony or record-making offense) and that the ICC (what is that?) is the same, you could have boxes of ammo in your pockets, in your car both parked and moving, and in your house... none of them secured at all, as long as you have a permit?
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Well LenS, I'm I have to say I'm very thankful for people like you that are able to shed some light on this topic because, to be honest, it often leaves me very confused as well. For instance, and I know this may be a dumb question, but when people have either their primary carry gun or home defense gun locked up, but have rounds in the magazine or in the Side Saddle Shell Holder- does this constitute a violation of the storage laws?
LenS is right. The MGLs do not address the storage/transportation of ammunition. The controlling regulation is
527 CMR 13.04, which only controls the storage of ammunition that "may be kept, or stored in a building or other structure".
Correct, except for "in your house", which 527 CMR 13.04 controls.
Well, you edited out the first part of my post, which takes into account who the enforcing agency is...
i.e. if you don't store your ammo in your house in a locked container.... what is the penalty? and who enforces it? The fire department? What are they going to do?
i.e., you don't transport your gun properly, the police pull you over and you're in trouble, you get convicted, that's a major offense, you now have a criminal record and can probably never get a gun license again.
but you don't store ammo properly in your house, lets say the cops come to your house for some other reason and notice your unproperly stored ammo... they then call the fire department? who then shows up and... arrests you?
No, no arrest and no prosecution. I'm not sure that there is any civil fine either, but I haven't checked.
According to 13.02(1)(b) the penalty is "a fine of not more than $100 or by imprisonment for not more than 1 month, or both”. I would imagine the officer could ask the fire officials to cite you based on the officer's observation of unsecured ammo. Personally, I would rather not find out. YMMV.
Interesting. Thanks for this info.
Just seems odd to me that it's an offense regulated by the FD and that the PD could cite you for it. The clause about 'imprisonment for not more than 1 month' makes it sound like this could be an automatic disqualifier for future licensing if it got on your record?
FYI I am just interested in this stuff... all several thousand rounds of my ammo are in my safe.
I seriously doubt that the PD could cite for this. I know that at least one PD was told that there was no crime and they could not cite/prosecute for "unsecured ammo".
I don't know of any mechanism for the FD to do a criminal cite. If I remember, I'll ask my fire chief next time I see him.
ntomsw
Banned
Old thread I know. But I did get my permit through Gemme town and it was all pretty simple. At first the FD had no idea what I was asking for. I got a, "What kind of permit are you looking for? In my time here in Worcester, I have never had anyone ask for an ammo storage permit/reloading permit."
So, I called the DFS and got all the info from them, which I forwarded back to Worcester, and I told him what I needed, (I put down maximum amounts on everything, even though I know I will never have that much. The DFS told me to do that), and I paid the $50, and it's all set. So, at least the permit for that was pretty painless. If only The permits for LTC's we're just as easy in Worcester.
I am sure a lot of people don't get permits, but I don't want to be "that guy" that loses his LTC and such for not paying a simple $50. If they require you to have one, then I don't mind getting one. They we're very nice about it, even though at first they had no idea what I was asking for.![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
So, I called the DFS and got all the info from them, which I forwarded back to Worcester, and I told him what I needed, (I put down maximum amounts on everything, even though I know I will never have that much. The DFS told me to do that), and I paid the $50, and it's all set. So, at least the permit for that was pretty painless. If only The permits for LTC's we're just as easy in Worcester.
I am sure a lot of people don't get permits, but I don't want to be "that guy" that loses his LTC and such for not paying a simple $50. If they require you to have one, then I don't mind getting one. They we're very nice about it, even though at first they had no idea what I was asking for.
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Very true, however if G-d forbid one has a fire and ammo/components in quantity is found and no permit, you can expect your insurance company to REFUSE to pay the claim! That would be the very real and expensive punishment.
ntomsw
Banned
That alone is 1 of the reasons I got the permit. Now, my a$$ is covered.
for argument sake.....What if you do have a permit for storage and your house sets ablaze at the fault of spontanious primer combustion ? Can/will insurance deny your claim...........I cant see insurance declining your claim because you have powder/ammo stored in your house. other than the primer limit you dont need a permit until you max out the max on the no permit required limits. For the most part how worried is the FD about powder and ammo storage ?
The only way to get a real answer here is to read your policy and talk to your agent. They can always deny a claim initially and then you can spend the time and money to fight it.
namedpipes
NES Member
The agent can give an indication what they think the insurance company might do, not what the ins co WILL do.
![[angry2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/019.gif "Angry2 [angry2]")
namedpipes
NES Member
My WAG is they didn't want people having drawers filled with loosies?
Look, if you try to truly understand laws, you'll go insane. That's what happens to lawyers, you know. They start out as nice people, trying to make a difference, then they start to get their head in how the law works and it is game over. The inmates are running the asylum.
OK, so, how secure does a "...cabinet, closet or box..." need to be in order to be compliant? I'm considering a plastic Home Depot (Black & Decker, actually) cabinet. It has tabs for a padlock, but anyone with a simple tool could break off the plastic tabs the lock goes through.
I agree that a more secure cabinet would be better, and I plan to get one after I move in about 6 months, but this is only ammo and I'm from a free(er) state where ammo had none of MA's controls on it. Anyway, will this stop-gap meet the letter of the law?
I have something similar. It's a piece of thin plastic junk and somebody with a screwdriver could hack right through it. But I guess it satisfies the regulation. I got it for $30 from Home Depot.
