How would you know if the injured party has a
concealed sidearm?
If they are injured severely enough, you find out when you cut their clothes off to examine them. When the jacket hits the floor with a lout
THUD it's a giveaway. Or, when you see it sticking out of their waste band, while taking off their jacket.
Sometimes, if they're gang members, all you'll find is an empty holster as either a friend or an enemy has removed the firearm itself before anyone showed up.
It's never bothered me, although I do relieve any armed patient of their weapon. That's only because if they are unconscious or semi conscious they may wake up and instinctively reach for their firearm. That includes POs, if another officer hasn't secured the weapon yet.
I don't unload them, I don't "make them safe", I don't even touch them without gloves on. That's on the odd chance that there is a crime involved and the firearm is evidence.
I also don't ask if they have a LTC since I don't care.
I was responding to the OP though, & I'm still wondering how an EMT that approaches a scene, sees a woman laying motionless & bleeding profusely from her head, can determine if that bulge in my coat pocket is a Seecamp or an Ipod.
Just because you have a head injury and are bleeding from it does not preclude you from having other injuries. If you are unconscious, it is very likely that you do. In that case, once any immediately life threatening conditions are corrected, I am going to move you from the ground into the ambulance. There, all of your clothes will be removed, by cutting them off if necessary. Not doing a thorough physical exam, which requires removal of clothing, is negligent at the least. I can relate a dozen cases where EMTs didn't do what I just described and failed to find serious injuries. I know of two or three where the patient died from them.
During process, it's very likely that whatever is in your pocket is going to hit the floor. Again, I've had that happen. No big deal to me since I'm comfortable with guns, but I do put them in a secure place until a PO shows up to take it from me. And yes, I have recovered what later proved to be a murder weapon doing that.
I am actually surprised the firearms statutes don't refer to "first responders" in some context and exempt them, for the period necessary, to possess another's firearm without repurcussions. It seems stupid that a firefighter or EMT who removes someone's gun, for the purpose of providing treatment, would be at risk for violating the firearms possession statutes.
I've never even heard it mentioned in 31 years in the field. On the contrary, I've been thanked for securing weapons and no one has asked me if I had a LTC. Contrary to what some people think, cops aren't stupid and they aren't looking to arrest people for shit that a DA would laugh at them for. Not to mention the shit that they'd take from their PS.
In fact, I'd be more concerned that some office bound idiot in my own agency would make an issue of it because we have a "no weapons" policy. Even that is pretty far fetched.
Or more likely, common sense. Police are unlikely to start a pissing contest with the people who would be responding if they where in a TA or shot while on the job. "Sorry, office, I can't stop the bleeding because there's a gun in my way."
Ken
This. The old time cops, all retired, most dead, loved when EMTs came along and relieved them of ambulance duty. They hated it, mostly because they were helpless to do anything for the patients except bounce them in the back of the paddy wagon while driving like hell for the hospital. Which is pretty much a quote I heard dozens of times early in my career.
An interesting fact I think in this case would be to know how many combat medics have been shot by the person they are treating. That would give you a good indication of how dangerous an armed person would be to treat. Not only that but in the case of the combat medics any weapon they come across would be loaded and the safety most likely off, not just sitting idly in a holster.
Good question. I don't know, but I can find out if someone really wants to know. From what I've seen and heard second hand, injured people who are not capable of using their weapon to defend themselves are relieved of weapons. When I was doing some basic level medical support for a law enforcement agency, we trained to secure the weapons if another operator wasn't there to do it for us. That's just once agency, non military, so I won't make a general statement.
Depending on what branch and the specific MOS of the medic, some of them are armed and are operators in addition to medics. They are well versed in handling weapons.
Then again, I don't know how or if that translates to the civilian world where most people don't train as much and aren't as disciplined.