All Lawful Purposes not acceptable reason in "Green" town?

[JSnaxx]

I had a page and a half of reasoning, three letters if reference from the army stating my ability and training with a fire arm and work as a photographer which often gas me on my own in unfamiliar/sometimes dangerous lneighborhoods with thousands of dollars of equipment........... Hit with Restrictions lol

 

[namedpipes]

This sounds like an excellent test case to find out if Guida really flipped.

Sent from my chimney using smoke signals.

 

[bigtig50]

When you think about it you realize what an absurd question it really is. What could you really say? Oh, I need to buy guns so I can shoot up a movie theater? It seems to be a dumb point trying to justify what is already a right given by the Constitution and all you are trying to do is play by their rules and remain "legal". We are already at the point where government has way too much to say about how we live our lives, and it only seems to be getting worse.

 

[JimB]

Reason for applying? So that I may carry concealed. I mean, I applied for my driver's license so I could drive.

bfm, your reasoning is right on the money, its the obvious. However

n this state because its so obvious they won;t understand it.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Lead in with the protection of life and property

In MA we are PROHIBITED from using deadly force to protect property!!

Yes back in the "old days" both my Wife's and my LTCs said "Protection of Life and Property" but you'd go to jail for protecting property.

At one Town Meeting many years ago, a nutty citizen tried to remove the Chief's salary from approved expenditures and his reasoning had to do with licensing issues. The Chief got up to defend himself and made the point that he issued most LTCs (this was pre-1998 IIRC) for "Protection of Life and Property". With glee I got up next and pointed out on the floor of Town Meeting that MGL did not allow defense of property! In spite of my "interview" for renewal occurring the next morning, I still got an unrestricted LTC.

It seems to be a dumb point trying to justify what is already a right given by the Constitution and all you are trying to do is play by their rules and remain "legal".

I say the following in all sincerity and to give you an idea where the state's collective head is at (where the sun doesn't shine)! Rob Boudrie, Jon Green and Knuckle Dragger were all witnesses to this "pronouncement" at Glidden's LE seminar a year ago May.

MCOPA and EOPS Attorneys have "determined" that Heller and MacDonald have NO EFFECT on MGL and that PDs are to operate like those USSC rulings never occurred!!!!

Yes, the US Constitution does NOT apply in MA. We are all slaves and are to be treated as our keepers wish with no regard to any rights at all (other than to be taxed and ruled)!! /sarcasm

I wish I were joking but I'm not and I'm also not surprised.

 

[JFR2]

A well crafted lawsuit brought forth by Boudrie and Knuckles, et al (Comm2a) is what we need to "persuade" them otherwise!

-JR

 

[Coyote33]

"To keep the man off my back" or "For just in case" just doesn't ring right? ;-)

I'd just throw everything on there, otherwise, you might get restricted to only what you say.

 

[JohnZ]

I have a friend who is applying for his LTC-A in the town of Winchester, Ma. The instructions on the application say that when giving a reason for applying that "For All Lawful Purposes is not acceptable". I have not seen this before and am looking for advice on what he should put for an answer. I was thinking something along the lines of "For self protection" or "For protection of Family" or something like that. Anyone else have any good ideas? He is not thinking that he is going to be carrying until he gets more training and feels better prepared to carry, but he does not want a restricted LTC either (I dont blame him).

Thanks
/John

Wonder if "Awful law purposes" is acceptable. It certainly is appropriate.

 

[Mr. Rogers]

Never mention the protection of personal property on a Massachusetts LTC application. Plain and simple.

 

[PineTar]

In MA we are PROHIBITED from using deadly force to protect property!!

Yes back in the "old days" both my Wife's and my LTCs said "Protection of Life and Property" but you'd go to jail for protecting property.

Fixed my post - sorry about the bad info

 

[45collector]

You know what's really scary is someone like me who's had their unrestricted LTC for over 12 years and hasn't so much as spit on the sidewalk, could get their LTC denied upon next renewal because the COP stubbed his toe on his coffee table that particular morning.

 

[winter]

I filed my application for "All Lawful Purposes" in Worcester.

 

[StevieP]

"For all lawful purposes, to buy, sell, use, carry, transfer, own and collect all large capacity pistols,rifles, and shotguns for use in hunting, sporting, competition, target shooting, collecting and personal protection."

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

this is what you WANT

they're asking the REASON YOU WANT IT

because the MGL specifically state what circumstances it can be issued in (see post #2)

reading comprehension is an integral part of the licensing process in Mass

Reason - Because without the license, you can't do any of those things.

 

[Palladin]

Holy Thread revival Batman

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Nice necro post.

Since we're talking about Winchester let's just update their status. They are red and they are actually recalling unrestricted licenses and reissuing them as restricted. And that's why they're getting sued by Comm2A.

 

[71montess]

Nice necro post.

Since we're talking about Winchester let's just update their status. They are red and they are actually recalling unrestricted licenses and reissuing them as restricted. And that's why they're getting sued by Comm2A.

Ca Pow !

 

[jar]

Nice necro post.

Since we're talking about Winchester let's just update their status. They are red and they are actually recalling unrestricted licenses and reissuing them as restricted. And that's why they're getting sued by Comm2A.

Oh wow, I didn't realize they were actively restricting existing licenses. Has any other town done that en masse?

 

[MachineHead]

What gets me is that they are actually RECALLING unrestricted LTCs and reissuing them as restricted.....holy shit! That's something I would imagine happening at the intersection of I-90 and I-95, not Winchester.

 

[Len-2A Training]

What gets me is that they are actually RECALLING unrestricted LTCs and reissuing them as restricted.....holy shit! That's something I would imagine happening at the intersection of I-90 and I-95, not Winchester.

It should make for an interesting Comm2A lawsuit!

 

[DrNVP]

seriously f-ed up. New chief or something?

 

[Another_David]

"For all lawful purposes, to buy, sell, use, carry, transfer, own and collect all large capacity pistols,rifles, and shotguns for use in hunting, sporting, competition, target shooting, collecting and personal protection."


Reason - Because without the license, you can't do any of those things.

a red town will issue you a hunting/target RESTRICTION for that reason in a heart beat and you'll be told you can protect yourself in your home with a restricted license. You need to cite a specific need outside the home to have a chance at getting an unrestricted in red town.

and don't shoot the messenger. I'm just relaying the red town mantra and MGL (see post 2)

 

[LTCRN]

a red town will issue you a hunting/target RESTRICTION for that reason in a heart beat and you'll be told you can protect yourself in your home with a restricted license. You need to cite a specific need outside the home to have a chance at getting an unrestricted in red town.

and don't shoot the messenger. I'm just relaying the red town mantra and MGL (see post 2)

I don't think it really matters one way or another what your reason is in a "red" town based on my own and others experiences. Of course there has to be exceptions to the rule but those towns should be listed as orange,yellow,blue, or the applicant knows somebody on the inside.
The letter writing B.S. is just that, B.S. It is designed by the COP to give him or her justification on why they issued you restrictions, paranoia being the major one. The bottom line is these COP have issues with the general public wanting to protect themselves outside of their home. What those issues are, only one knows. I was told after a couple of letters and one twenty minute FTF meeting that, "I guess it comes down to you and I having philosophical differences on who should be allowed to carry outside of the home (police officers) and who shouldn't (general public)."
I still recommend what Stevie P wrote, save all of the other bull, and take Comm 2A's offer to represent you and fight them in court if you wish to obtain what you rightfully deserve.

 

[Another_David]

I don't think it really matters one way or another what your reason is in a "red" town based on my own and others experiences. Of course there has to be exceptions to the rule but those towns should be listed as orange,yellow,blue, or the applicant knows somebody on the inside.
The letter writing B.S. is just that, B.S. It is designed by the COP to give him or her justification on why they issued you restrictions, paranoia being the major one. The bottom line is these COP have issues with the general public wanting to protect themselves outside of their home. What those issues are, only one knows. I was told after a couple of letters and one twenty minute FTF meeting that, "I guess it comes down to you and I having philosophical differences on who should be allowed to carry outside of the home (police officers) and who shouldn't (general public)."
I still recommend what Stevie P wrote, save all of the other bull, and take Comm 2A's offer to represent you and fight them in court if you wish to obtain what you rightfully deserve.

ALP isn't even an option on the new application so good luck with that.

i was referring to the original post about completing the application, not writing letters.

if you're going to ask Comm 2A for their help then ask them BEFORE you submit your application.

 

[LTCRN]

ALP isn't even an option on the new application so good luck with that.

i was referring to the original post about completing the application, not writing letters.

if you're going to ask Comm 2A for their help then ask them BEFORE you submit your application.

OK, I understand your point. I was referring to both the opening post and what others have written combined. The new application has four choices and under the unrestricted category it asks the reasons why you are applying for unrestricted. An applicant can still write ALP / Personal Protection if they wish. I think what Stevie P posted is detailed enough to write on the application, it covers everything. If it isn't good enough for them, COP's, they will let you know. Then it is up to the applicant to decide what their next step will be.
I followed their rules and used specific and detailed reasons as instructed and I received T&H. I wasn't aware of the game because every person I knew that had a license, didn't have to write anything additional and had no restrictions.
I just know from past experience, the more you write, the more you will give a COP a reason to deny unrestricted and downgrade you to one of the other B.S. restricted choices. Whether the reason is written on the application or on a separate piece of paper, it makes no difference. I recommend that applicants use the KISS system / Stevie P.'s response and if necessary contact Comm 2A if your application gets rejected for lack of detail like mine initially was. Every COP is different and some will make exceptions based on who you know, what you do for work, or some won't make any. The system sucks and they are violating the law themselves with their egregious and capricious policies.
Comm 2A is looking for clients to challenge this in depth explanation or detailed letter writing garbage.

 

[Lank]

Keep this thread alive, forever.....I just picked up an application to renew an FID and was less than happy when I read it.

Question for the NES community- with the recent licensing changes, does it make sense to keep an FID and LTCA?

I plan to do so.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Keep this thread alive, forever.....I just picked up an application to renew an FID and was less than happy when I read it.

Question for the NES community- with the recent licensing changes, does it make sense to keep an FID and LTCA?

I plan to do so.

IMNSHO No! Not since 1998 when you will lose ALL guns anyway upon suspension regardless of having the FID. It no longer offers any protection whatsoever, and now it is discretionary too.

It's the same now as ordering a BLT and paying for filet mignon/lobster.

 

[Shark_Cage]

How about "because God said I could"

 

[dcmdon]

So, I know several people who have entered some very funny reasons on an ATF Form 1 where it asks why you intend to make this firearm. Everything from "the russians are coming" to " zombie apocalypse"

They were all approved.

So I'm wondering if anyone has ever entered something dumb on a MA LtC app? I particularly like references to zombies.

 

[Len-2A Training]

So, I know several people who have entered some very funny reasons on an ATF Form 1 where it asks why you intend to make this firearm. Everything from "the russians are coming" to " zombie apocalypse"

They were all approved.

So I'm wondering if anyone has ever entered something dumb on a MA LtC app? I particularly like references to zombies.

No but a very long time ago when the 4473 form was very different, "Race" had an empty block you filled in, I put down "Human" and when the BATFE audited the dealer the agent did NOT have a sense of humor and demanded that the dealer (good friend) call me in to "correct" it.

 

[Lank]

IMNSHO No! Not since 1998 when you will lose ALL guns anyway upon suspension regardless of having the FID. It no longer offers any protection whatsoever, and now it is discretionary too.

It's the same now as ordering a BLT and paying for filet mignon/lobster.

Thanks. I still might do this as a test case with a new PD-I moved from a Green town to another Green town. I have some 15+ year old skeletons in my closet (annulled now from NH) that I still have to disclose, I guess. The application states that if you have a sealed record, list that and they will determine if stat disqualified. Is that new?

Anyway, new Green town is smaller, with a much smaller PD, so not sure what to expect. They also want an interview.

FID expires in Sep 15, and LTC-A No-Res expires in Sep 16.