Find a nice used P220, if DA/SA works for you and call it a day. You will not find a more reliable .45 out there, Glocks and M+Ps come close, but the P220 is pretty much the king of eating .45 and working right.
-Mike
-Mike
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Advice on 45
- Thread starter scarinjo
- Start date
i humbly call BS. i have a S&W 1911, Govt Size that i haven't cleaned in over a year. it has NEVER FTF' or FTE' in over 1500 rounds. YES, your read that right.
i pay particular attention to any gun i carry, which is ALL of my pistols at one point or another. anything that gives me problems outside of ammo, mags or operator malfuction (i.e. me playing gunsmith or something) gets pitched.
i normally clean them all every 500ish rounds.... so i guess i'm missing something???![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
"Mags" is a big part of why the 1911 requires this care. I don't want to go around-and-round on this, but suffice it to say that I'm not the only one who holds this opinion. To be clear, I like, shoot, and carry 1911s, but one shouldn't treat one like a Glock. I haven't lubed my M&P in about 2000 rounds, and I wouldn't dream of doing that to a 1911 I wanted to run.
W
wolf223
i DEMAND nothing but flawless performance out of any gun i buy.
my FAIL GUNS: walther PPK/S, walther PK380
both platforms have documented issues and / or recalls to substantiate my disdain for them.
on the other hand, 1911's outside of the ones i mentioned do NOT. it can be attributed to shitty ammo, limp-wristing or some other operator malfunction. i am only emphasizing this because the OP is asking for advice on a carry piece. to write off a 1911 would be wrong IMO.
-again, i will not keep a gun in my safe unless it is flawless.
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
so far, so good.I wouldn't either.
I used to neglect my 1911s while pin shooting. Usually the 3rd match with no cleanings the guns would start to taunt me by jamming and malfing, and I would become "that guy"- you know, the one losing all the relays because his gun malfed at the most inopportune time. After one match where both the guns I had were malfing because they were too dirty, I clean them fully at least after every 2 matches, and after every match each gun gets a boresnake and at least a little oil here and there where it counts.
I also used to bring 3 guns.... 2 1911s and a Sig P220..... because I knew that if the 1911s pissed me off, the P220 never would. That gun is just about unstoppable, I'd have to intentionally give it really bad ammo to stop it.
-Mike
Having shot my S&W 1911 in 3 defensive handgun courses, each 3 days long and ran ~800 rds, the gun didn't get cleaned until after each course was over. No malfunctions.
I might add that my M&P 45 has probably run 1500 rds with no malfunctions. It sports a nice clean 5# Greg Derr trigger job and is a pleasure to shoot. A couple of PDs in SE MA went to this gun over the last 2-4 years and have had no problems with them.
I might add that my M&P 45 has probably run 1500 rds with no malfunctions. It sports a nice clean 5# Greg Derr trigger job and is a pleasure to shoot. A couple of PDs in SE MA went to this gun over the last 2-4 years and have had no problems with them.
I will have to say I haven't had any issues with my Para Ord single stack LDA. Love the trigger too. (once you get use to it)
Skip both and get a S&W 1911.
1) No way I would carry an AutoOrdnance.
2) I've shot Sig P220s. I'm just not impressed.
gerrycaruso
NES Member
I own both of the pistols you mentioned as well as .45s from Colt,Glock,Para Ordnance and S&W. I think the Auto Ordnance from Kahr is a great shooter and Kahr's customer service is outstanding. The P220 is also a very accurate handgun but a little bigger than the 1911. Shoot both if you can to see which grip you like best. Also,the P220 is a double action auto and most 1911's are single action.
W
wolf223
I have fired the new AO 1911s and I have to say I wasn't impressed by the accuracy. The gun I was using was provided to me by the Kahr regional sales rep, so I assume it was in good working condition.
My S&W 1911 shoots like a champ, feels great and never fails. I did replace the rosewood grips with rubber wrap-arounds. The rosewood looks nice but doesn't perform as well. I think I got a good price when I bought it new from Four Seasons. This is a keeper.
My S&W 1911 shoots like a champ, feels great and never fails. I did replace the rosewood grips with rubber wrap-arounds. The rosewood looks nice but doesn't perform as well. I think I got a good price when I bought it new from Four Seasons. This is a keeper.
n1oty
NES Member
Zappa, my experience is completely unlike your experience with the 645. I got mine when they first came out. I can honestly say that it is one of very few sidearms that I would completely trust my life with. Mine has been quite accurate, has a decent DA trigger and a superb SA trigger. As you clearly noted, it WILL feed ALL DAY LONG. I've repeatedly fed it mixed ammo, even tested it as you did by cycling empty cases. I have never had a FTF/FTE. As for size, well, it's not a pocket gun, that's for sure.
Every time I take it out on one of the ranges at Harvard, someone from the sub-gun range keeps coming over wanting to buy it. It happens every time. However, I can unequivocally state that I will DIE owning this 645.
Every time I take it out on one of the ranges at Harvard, someone from the sub-gun range keeps coming over wanting to buy it. It happens every time. However, I can unequivocally state that I will DIE owning this 645.
Boghog1
NES Member
just to toss out there since it hasn't been mentioned the SA XD45 I have the compact version and I like it. I don't get to shoot it often enough but never had a failure of course there are only a couple hundred rounds through it. best advice I saw here was shoot a bunch of different ones.
fencer
NES Member
If it is going to be your carry gun, go with the Sig. 48 posts so far and you have not heard a single poster say that their Sig let them down and none of mine have either. I carry my 226 all the time and have no issues. Others will say it's big for concealed carry.
If it has to be .45 and you want it to go boom everytime you pull the trigger, your two best option are Sig and Glock ( As much as I hate to use the G word, it's true)
If it has to be .45 and you want it to go boom everytime you pull the trigger, your two best option are Sig and Glock ( As much as I hate to use the G word, it's true)
LEOs are still limited to what is on the EOPS List, so always keep that in mind. Only the AG Regs are "LE exempt".
W
wolf223
my last three ex-girlfriends would disagree.
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
i watched one have FTE after FTE with my G17. i pick it up and it was flawless. i signed her up for an appleseed but we broke up. not sure if she went.
I know that some dealers will sell anything to LEOs, but if you read the law, it is clear and a felony for the dealer to do so.
Depends on the gun and the recoiling mass it has. You take something like a Seecamp .32 and if you don't death grip it, it -will- jam. A lot of the little .380s and such are like that, too. On the other end of the spectrum you take something like a full size Sig or Beretta, and trying to induce one of those to jam via limp wristing is nearly impossible, due to the amount of recoiling mass they have.
Glocks can typically be limp wristed into jamming but it is often very difficult to do, depending on the ammo in use. You basically have to barely hold onto the gun to get it to jam, and even then, the failure often isn't consistent. I've tried to get mine to jam by holding it loosely, and it's pretty difficult.
I agree 99 out of 100 times it's a BS excuse for a given gun jamming, unless it's a tiny auto, then it becomes a greater probability.
-Mike
55_grain
NES Member
OP - have you carried before? (not on your duty belt). Before you plunk down your money for a lovely 3-pound 1911, try carrying one concealed for a day. It won't do you any good if you leave your new purchase in the safe 'cause it carries like a brick.
Doubtless the next poster will say he carries his 1911 concealed every day. YMMV...
Doubtless the next poster will say he carries his 1911 concealed every day. YMMV...
OP - have you carried before? (not on your duty belt). Before you plunk down your money for a lovely 3-pound 1911, try carrying one concealed for a day. It won't do you any good if you leave your new purchase in the safe 'cause it carries like a brick.
Doubtless the next poster will say he carries his 1911 concealed every day. YMMV...
I don't, but I know at least one person here who does. And he weighs 80lbs soaking wet. Personally I carry a G22.
Make it 62. The Sig P220 is just a great pistol - reliable, accurate, durable, easy to strip, and reasonable weight. There's also the 10,000 round torture test that Shooting times did, not to mention the performance of the P226 in military trials. Many say Sig got jobbed by Beretta on that selection.
The OP's other named option, the Auto Ordnance, is not usually listed in the top tier of M1911 clones. And GI spec sights are not the hot setup.
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Mass-diver
NES Member
Yup, he's right. G36 is the classic example. My dad has had one for years. It's 100% reliable with a good grip, but if you limp wrist it will jam often. PPK and other .380 that I have fired will do the same thing. Although IME, +P ammo = more slide velocity = less sensitivity to limp wristing.
For me, I cringe when I see women (who have these pocket guns pushed on them) or anyone not experienced with shooting carrying these mouse guns. If you have a crappy grip, they will jam.
And to the OP: .45 in MA. If I wanted to carry I would get a G30 (and carry a G21 mag in my pocket). If I wanted a range/HD pistol I would get M&P .45 with all those apex components. And if I had some time to really learn to shoot and train, I would pick up a S&W 1911 (a PD model for carry, otherwise steel).
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