Active shooter Training in Ma schools

[JackOfAllTrades]

Which reinforces the fact that armed resistance, ANY armed resistance usually causes the shooter to take his own life. So the schools need parents, teachers and admins with concealed firearms.

From what I can tell there are basically two types of active shooter.

You have the shooter that has a target. There is someone or group who they have a problem with. They will ignore anything that isn't their target or getting in the way of their target. Once they have achieved their goal they typically kill themselves. The guy at LAX who had a problem with the TSA would be an example. He ignored hundreds of other easy targets and only went after the group he was interested in or those who tried to stop him. In this case, your best option is to run away. If you aren't his target, he won't care. If you are his target, you want to be somewhere else anyway.

Then you have the shooter who wants a high body count. It doesn't matter who is in front of them, they will shoot at it. This group seems to kill themselves as soon as there is any resistance or reality starts to diverge from their mental script. In this case, you want to run away since you are a target anyway.

Sheltering in place would work great in the case of the targeted shooter, but is the last thing you want to do for the kill-em-all shooter. It looks like the best bet in all cases is the run-for-the-hills approach.

Keep in mind we are dealing with mentally unstable lone wolf types here. They most likely have little practical experience with their weapons or skill in the type assault they are carrying out. There is no sniper in the woods or second man to pick off those who are escaping. Even if there were, your odds are still better moving than standing still.

Even with all this, the odds of being involved in an active shooter scenario are astoundingly small. Your odds of being a casualty in an active shooter scenario are even smaller. Your odds of being killed in an active shooter scenario are smaller yet.

Don't live in fear. Move away from the noises. Fight if cornered.

 

[dcmdon]

Jack, your point about the odds being very small mirror what I posted earlier.

I laugh when I hear of inner city schools spending millions on defenses and extra SROs, etc.

If they spent half that much on early intervention on fatherless young men who are at high risk, they would save ten times as many lives.

The sad reality is that for a lot of kids, in school is the safest place for them to be.

 

[Coyote33]

From what I can tell there are basically two types of active shooter.

You have the shooter that has a target. There is someone or group who they have a problem with. They will ignore anything that isn't their target or getting in the way of their target. Once they have achieved their goal they typically kill themselves. The guy at LAX who had a problem with the TSA would be an example. He ignored hundreds of other easy targets and only went after the group he was interested in or those who tried to stop him. In this case, your best option is to run away. If you aren't his target, he won't care. If you are his target, you want to be somewhere else anyway.

Then you have the shooter who wants a high body count. It doesn't matter who is in front of them, they will shoot at it. This group seems to kill themselves as soon as there is any resistance or reality starts to diverge from their mental script. In this case, you want to run away since you are a target anyway.

Sheltering in place would work great in the case of the targeted shooter, but is the last thing you want to do for the kill-em-all shooter. It looks like the best bet in all cases is the run-for-the-hills approach.

Keep in mind we are dealing with mentally unstable lone wolf types here. They most likely have little practical experience with their weapons or skill in the type assault they are carrying out. There is no sniper in the woods or second man to pick off those who are escaping. Even if there were, your odds are still better moving than standing still.

Even with all this, the odds of being involved in an active shooter scenario are astoundingly small. Your odds of being a casualty in an active shooter scenario are even smaller. Your odds of being killed in an active shooter scenario are smaller yet.

Don't live in fear. Move away from the noises. Fight if cornered.

Of course, if ISIS comes here, all this is off, except these two sentences:

It looks like the best bet in all cases is the run-for-the-hills approach.
...
Don't live in fear. Move away from the noises. Fight if cornered.

 

[mousegunguy]

So in the highly unlikely event that the teacher is able to get the gun away from the shooter, he or she is supposed to put it under a trash barrel and sit on the barrel? What prevents the shooter from knocking the teacher off the barrel and getting his gun back?

the shooter won't know where the gun is. It's not like the person on the can would say "I've got the gun" .... Wait a minute...... Never mind

 

[noxin]

Imagine a student of the school walking up to the SRO and asking an innocent question that requires the SRO to turn and point. Most of us do it with our dominant hand. Our gun hand.

Wow, never even thought of that. Time for exercises to correct that. Always keep gun hand open.

 

[beerjeep]

Wow, never even thought of that. Time for exercises to correct that. Always keep gun hand open.

The beauty of thoughtful, informed analysis.

 

[BakerBingo]

In my experience SRO's are normally the guys close to retirement, dont wear uniforms/body armor and would be close to useless in a situation like this, except for the fact that they're armed.

What jackofalltrades stated seems mostly accurate. I can't recall any instances of an active shooter that didn't seem bent on suicide with the one exception of Aurora. Terror at Beslan is a good read on the subject of a worst case scenario. It breaks down the incident from about 10 years ago where an organized group of militants took over the school and took 1000+ hostages and killed 300+ people. While it seems far fetched to happen here, take a look at what ISIS is doing and it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility.

 

[Len-2A Training]

In my experience SRO's are normally the guys close to retirement, dont wear uniforms/body armor and would be close to useless in a situation like this, except for the fact that they're armed.

What jackofalltrades stated seems mostly accurate. I can't recall any instances of an active shooter that didn't seem bent on suicide with the one exception of Aurora. Terror at Beslan is a good read on the subject of a worst case scenario. It breaks down the incident from about 10 years ago where an organized group of militants took over the school and took 1000+ hostages and killed 300+ people. While it seems far fetched to happen here, take a look at what ISIS is doing and it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility.

Not in my town, our SRO is relatively young, in uniform and relates well with the high schoolers. He's become a social worker in the school most of the time.

If you recall what Dave said, Beslan repeat is very doable here, unfortunately.

 

[Lcstyle]

If you recall what Dave said, Beslan repeat is very doable here, unfortunately.

 

[dcmdon]

It doesn't really matter who the SRO is, how skilled he is, or how strong he is.

He's wearing the Shoot-Me-First uniform. As long as he is the only armed person in a
school and he's wearing a costume advertising that, he's just a bump in the road. Like a locked door.
Something static to be dealt with.

 

[GPP]

It doesn't really matter who the SRO is, how skilled he is, or how strong he is.

He's wearing the Shoot-Me-First uniform. As long as he is the only armed person in a
school and he's wearing a costume advertising that, he's just a bump in the road. Like a vlocked door.
Something static to be dealt with.

Right on the money. SRO is not the answer in a Columbine esque scenario.

 

[Picton]

In my experience SRO's are normally the guys close to retirement, dont wear uniforms/body armor and would be close to useless in a situation like this, except for the fact that they're armed.

Im not trying to pick a fight, but I'm curious about your experience level in schools. Every SRO I've worked with (three in 14 years, small-town department) have been among the best in the department. They care about kids, are mature and stable, and won't hesitate to move toward the sound of the guns.

Our PD screens for dependable officers whom kids can relate to. That they're professional and courteous is a nice bonus.

if you're a teacher who has had the misfortune to work with ROAD crapbags as SROs, you have my sympathy.

 

[Mr. Gold]

2.5 years until my oldest kid goes to first grade = 2.5 years left to prepare for home schooling. IMO, in this day and age, and not just due to active shooter type of issues, sending your kids to school is playing a dangerous game.

 

[Kevski]

I was told that a few weeks ago, the Winchester (MA) public schools had an active shooter training / drill instructing kids to cause "mayhem" and throw stuff at the shooter which is supposed to make them get frustrated and leave.

If this is true I hope nobody is buying this heaping helping of bullshit.

 

[BakerBingo]

Im not trying to pick a fight, but I'm curious about your experience level in schools. Every SRO I've worked with (three in 14 years, small-town department) have been among the best in the department. They care about kids, are mature and stable, and won't hesitate to move toward the sound of the guns.

Our PD screens for dependable officers whom kids can relate to. That they're professional and courteous is a nice bonus.

if you're a teacher who has had the misfortune to work with ROAD crapbags as SROs, you have my sympathy.

I've worked for two towns that are day and night. The first had a regional 1-12 school with about 3000 kids and 1 SRO. The SRO was all the things you said, dependable, good with kids, and legitimately cared. It's actually hard to say anything negative about her as she was such a genuinely kind person, but I wouldnt want her alongside me in a situation like this.

The guys at my current job, I get the impression they couldn't care less. It's a on duty retirement gig with an admin schedule.

 

[HuntMaine]

I was told that a few weeks ago, the Winchester (MA) public schools had an active shooter training / drill instructing kids to cause "mayhem" and throw stuff at the shooter which is supposed to make them get frustrated and leave.

If this is true I hope nobody is buying this heaping helping of bullshit.

I'll confirm that the "throw stuff at the shooter" has been and is being taught at schools across Massachusetts.

 

[Da_lucche]

I'll confirm that the "throw stuff at the shooter" has been and is being taught at schools across Massachusetts.

my son's grandmother lives a street over from his school. I've instructed him to evade and maneuver. No shelter in place. Get the **** out of there any which way he can, even out a window. Once out, head to his grandma's.

 

[CTpatriot]

Yup. It is indeed the ALICE crap. And it is crap. I told my kids to pop smoke out as soon as possible, run over and /or through a teacher that's in your way etc. get the **** out. Armed teachers would be awesome, but it won't happen in MA. The new young teachers ( I'm sure not all of them) are of the every kid gets a trophy, and every single kid could be president if they wanted to. These are the teachers that call the police when kids use their fingers to make pretend guns. Tell your kids to get out, absolutely the best advice.

you can tell which kids are NES when they jump out the window they do a tactical roll . Drill those kids now and it will last a lifetime.

 

[CTpatriot]

So in the highly unlikely event that the teacher is able to get the gun away from the shooter, he or she is supposed to put it under a trash barrel and sit on the barrel? What prevents the shooter from knocking the teacher off the barrel and getting his gun back?

train kids in every weapons system out there how to clear and make safe. also, how to quickly break the weapon down. im sure the antis would not oppose this

 

[knfmn]

Shelter in place and cops refusal to move toward active shooters has cost many lives in active shooter situations. If and when I have kids, they will be instructed to completely ignore any instructions from their teachers, escape and evade.

 

[fshalor]

I did something in middle school and highschool that would probably get me expelled today. I played a lot of Doom at the time, and used the wad editor to make maps of my middle school. Friends and I played that map for HOuRS. When we moved to HS, I made a new map and we played the heck out of that one.

The benefit was, we knew the schools backwards and forwards. But today? In this climate?...