Active shooter Training in Ma schools

[thewiseone91]

I'm not going to name the school district but my cousins are both elementary school teachers in the same district and in the last week they had local PD come in and talk to them about what to do in an active shooter situation. They told me mostly everything and to say I was modified is stating it lightly. The following was told to school teachers mostly female to do in the event of a school shooting:

• Throw books, chairs, desks and anything else they can find at the shooter.
• Engage the shooter in conversation (if they are a current or former student) and try to talk them down.
• They were also told the point above was a bad idea stating that the teacher might be the reason for the shooting (Makes a lot of sense to give contradictory information)
• Shelter in place with your children (before they were told to huddle into a single corner of their rooms with all the children-this is now believed to be a bad idea)
• Blockade the door with file cabinets or other heavy objects and then place a card under the door to indicate everything was okay in that room (Also stating that there was no viable exit strategy from that room)
• To tackle the shooter and try to disarm them (Last possible option)
• If they are able to disarm the shooter to place the weapon under a trashcan, sit on the trashcan, and state "I have the gun"
• Make as much noise as possible to distract the shooter and keep the children calm
• Attempt evacuation if possible and again only as a last resort

They then asked me what I thought of this "training", and I answered them truthfully that if such an event were to happen there would be a very low survival rate among faculty and students. I then informed them that this was pseudo or feel-good training and had no way of keeping anyone safe. I told them that they need to have an armed officer to deter would-be shooters or even put up signs saying that the staff is armed. As we all know and what I told them a gun-free zone is a killing zone. Thoughts anyone?

 

[xcom]

• Throw books, chairs, desks and anything else they can find at the shooter.
• Engage the shooter in conversation (if they are a current or former student) and try to talk them down.

Do these happen at the same time?

 

[charlie88]

The first step is to throw objects at shooter?!?! Yes let's piss them off more. That training seems like a terrible plan for the situation. IMO

 

[xcom]

Could you throw bullets at the shooter?

 

[GM-GUY]

Been covered before in other threads, but I have instructed my kids to run and not stop, go through the parking lot and put as many cars between you and the school as possible, no matter what you hear, no matter who calls to you - DO NOT STOP. Head to the Public Safety Building - about 1 mile away. Do not look for each other, you'll meet along the way, DO NOT STOP.

This is for shootings only (they hear gunfire) they know what it sounds like - we all shoot.

 

[Admin]

I figured step one would be: Alight the sights on the shooter and squeeze the trigger.

 

[goodzilla]

Ohmygod. This ALICE crap must be making the rounds. They just schooled my kindergartener on it. Try to get detailed info out on that from a 5/6 year old, it's fairly useless. Some vaguaries of an "intruder" in the school. I understand the thought that they have to do "something" to show they have a plan (for the children), but it pretty much amounts to a new version of "duck and cover" IMHO. To put it in perspective, the odds of something along these lines happening is on the order of 4x the probability of being struck by lightening (according to that commie rag Mother Jones). I think it's even less than that, when you think of the 130,000 schools, days in session, occurences, etc.

I plan on telling my kids to get the F out of Dodge if something like that is going on, and we'll deal with any problems with the school if that happens after the fact. Any plan that starts with shelter in place until the police arrive is a ID/mop-up strategy for the police.

 

[GPP]

Ohmygod. This ALICE crap must be making the rounds. They just schooled my kindergartener on it. Try to get detailed info out on that from a 5/6 year old, it's fairly useless. Some vaguaries of an "intruder" in the school. I understand the thought that they have to do "something" to show they have a plan (for the children), but it pretty much amounts to a new version of "duck and cover" IMHO. To put it in perspective, the odds of something along these lines happening is on the order of 4x the probability of being struck by lightening (according to that commie rag Mother Jones). I think it's even less than that, when you think of the 130,000 schools, days in session, occurences, etc.

I plan on telling my kids to get the F out of Dodge if something like that is going on, and we'll deal with any problems with the school if that happens after the fact. Any plan that starts with shelter in place until the police arrive is a ID/mop-up strategy for the police.

Yup. It is indeed the ALICE crap. And it is crap. I told my kids to pop smoke out as soon as possible, run over and /or through a teacher that's in your way etc. get the **** out. Armed teachers would be awesome, but it won't happen in MA. The new young teachers ( I'm sure not all of them) are of the every kid gets a trophy, and every single kid could be president if they wanted to. These are the teachers that call the police when kids use their fingers to make pretend guns. Tell your kids to get out, absolutely the best advice.

 

[jmh992003]

Step one should be to ventilate the perp, given that most teachers will obey the lame lame. If they truly couldn't evacuate, how about hair spray and a lighter, or the fire extinguisher, or sorta kneel down by the door, perp enters and attack. Any of that is better than those techniques.

 

[thewiseone91]

I agree I was in total shock and explained to them that there are so many possible variables that it would be impossible to be ready for any given scenario. They each have at least 30-40 kids in their classes and they have never been around a real firearm or let alone heard one go off. They are very unprepared for anything like this.

And this is just all around terrible advice to give to anyone in this situation.

 

[mikeyp]

• If they are able to disarm the shooter to place the weapon under a trashcan, sit on the trashcan, and state "I have the gun"?

Should this then be followed with "nanny nanny boo boo"?

 

[dcmdon]

I've told my kid to go out the window and run run run. I've told her to disobey the teacher in circumstances like this and to bite her if necessary.

Sorry, but huddle and pray is not the way to deal with this. It would be better to have all the kids run at the shooter at once. He may pick off a few, but at least they will be moving targets and he will only get one pass at them.

Cower in place is about the worst thing that could happen.

With that all said, I am comforted that a very good cop I know, who is also a firearms instructor lives 1/4 mile from our kids school and his beat includes the school. He's a good guy who has repeatedly shown restraint when he could have shot someone. (He got an award for tackling a nut with a toy gun rather than shooting him. He thought the gun was real at the time.)

 

[TonyDedo]

Where does "get the **** out of the school" fall in this training?

 

[Jonny5]

I figured step one would be: Alight the sights on the shooter and squeeze the trigger.

Step 2: repeat until empty
Step 3: reload
Step 4: see step 1.

Someone on NES is found of including this step:
Step 5: profit.

 

[wfd38383]

This is my favorite:

If they are able to disarm the shooter to place the weapon under a trashcan, sit on the trashcan, and state "I have the gun"

 

[JayMcB]

Where does "get the **** out of the school" fall in this training?

sadly, too late.

I have instructed my kids to get out of the school. throw a chair through a window if necessary, and walk home off the roads.

 

[goodzilla]

I agree I was in total shock and explained to them that there are so many possible variables that it would be impossible to be ready for any given scenario. They each have at least 30-40 kids in their classes and they have never been around a real firearm or let alone heard one go off. They are very unprepared for anything like this.

And this is just all around terrible advice to give to anyone in this situation.

Sounds like they need some range time, that should be step number one on familarization. In the short term, they should think about their ALICE training in the context of this video, specifically the 9:35 - 10:40 min mark for the active shooter, but the whole thing (including the intro reading) would be good for them.

 

[TonyDedo]

This is my favorite:

If they are able to disarm the shooter to place the weapon under a trashcan, sit on the trashcan, and state "I have the gun"

This is also how one wins at Capture the Flag

 

[JayMcB]

Sounds like they need some range time, that should be step number one on familarization. In the short term, they should think about their ALICE training in the context of this video, specifically the 9:35 - 10:40 min mark for the active shooter, but the whole thing (including the intro reading) would be good for them.

it's not 'fair' if you do a tactical reload. You have to fire until empty, THEN do you full-auto-belt-fed-mag-clip change and then rack the slide with it down at your hip. Only then can you fire again!

It's FOR THE CHILDREN

/sarc

 

[Chet0729]

I'm not going to name the school district but my cousins are both elementary school teachers in the same district and in the last week they had local PD come in and talk to them about what to do in an active shooter situation. They told me mostly everything and to say I was modified is stating it lightly. The following was told to school teachers mostly female to do in the event of a school shooting:

• Throw books, chairs, desks and anything else they can find at the shooter.
• Engage the shooter in conversation (if they are a current or former student) and try to talk them down.
• They were also told the point above was a bad idea stating that the teacher might be the reason for the shooting (Makes a lot of sense to give contradictory information)
• Shelter in place with your children (before they were told to huddle into a single corner of their rooms with all the children-this is now believed to be a bad idea)
• Blockade the door with file cabinets or other heavy objects and then place a card under the door to indicate everything was okay in that room (Also stating that there was no viable exit strategy from that room)
• To tackle the shooter and try to disarm them (Last possible option)
• If they are able to disarm the shooter to place the weapon under a trashcan, sit on the trashcan, and state "I have the gun"
• Make as much noise as possible to distract the shooter and keep the children calm
• Attempt evacuation if possible and again only as a last resort

They then asked me what I thought of this "training", and I answered them truthfully that if such an event were to happen there would be a very low survival rate among faculty and students. I then informed them that this was pseudo or feel-good training and had no way of keeping anyone safe. I told them that they need to have an armed officer to deter would-be shooters or even put up signs saying that the staff is armed. As we all know and what I told them a gun-free zone is a killing zone. Thoughts anyone?

There is so much fail in this.
Throw stuff at the shooter, really. If he wasn't going to shoot you he probably would after you hit him with a book.
The best advise is to get away from the scene as fast as possible by any means possible if you have no means to defend yourself.
If you did manage to disarm the shooter would you really look for a trash can to sit on. And do they really think the shooter would stick around if you managed to get his weapon away from him. I would really like to attend one of these sessions to ask a few questions.
I would also like to know where this advise actually originated, I am sure the PD didnt put this together.

 

[mclina]

My kids have been instructed that, if they are having a drill, they should do whatever the school has taught them. If there is ever a real situation, they are to throw a chair through the window and run into the woods.

 

[thewiseone91]

There is so much fail in this.
Throw stuff at the shooter, really. If he wasn't going to shoot you he probably would after you hit him with a book.
The best advise is to get away from the scene as fast as possible by any means possible if you have no means to defend yourself.
If you did manage to disarm the shooter would you really look for a trash can to sit on. And do they really think the shooter would stick around if you managed to get his weapon away from him. I would really like to attend one of these sessions to ask a few questions.
I would also like to know where this advise actually originated, I am sure the PD didnt put this together.

The entire class and training was taught by a uniformed officer, that was probably the scariest part of all of this. I told them next time to ask him if he would follow any of the advice he was imparting, I doubt the answer would be yes.

 

[Hush]

Pure denial on the part of everyone involved. It would be nice if the people giving this advice could be held civilly liable.

 

[GPP]

Pure denial on the part of everyone involved. It would be nice if the people giving this advice could be held civilly liable.

Of course they could be held civilly liable, you can sue someone or something for just about anything civilly. But I'd rather my kid throw a chair thru a window ( excellent advice mclina) and get out of there as opposed to suing the powers that be.

 

[Apathesis]

Attempt evacuation if possible and again only as a last resort

What the **** is this dumb shit?

Evacuate immediately. Public school ain't so important you can't miss one ****ing day.

Where's the recommendation that the principal nuts up and takes care of business?

 

[June4th]

No vomit/poop/pee as part of the SOP? Either the instructors are slacking off, or the custodians aren't thrilled about the prospect of cleanup after a drill/false alarm.

 

[GPP]

Attempt evacuation if possible and again only as a last resort

What the **** is this dumb shit?

Evacuate immediately. Public school ain't so important you can't miss one ****ing day.

Where's the recommendation that the principal nuts up and takes care of business?

A Winchendon, MA elementary school principal called the police to come to the school yesterday because kids were shooting elastics in the classroom. Principals are done nutting up its a shame. What's even worse is how much the cities and towns ( in MA anyways) are paying to have the security in their schools checked out by consultants ( most of which are a group of local LE that formed a company to do this), and then these same guys are preaching this ALICE retardedness.

 

[xcom]

Next time there is a hurricane, I think all those folks on the Cape should shelter in place. Evacuating the area of danger makes no sense.

 

[Glockfan71]

Horrible, horrible advice. Shelter and place and force ones self to vomit. The smell should deter the shooter. Or better yet, higher armed security or get someone in to train staff that would volunteer and let them carry a firearm concealed so maybe even the students don't know they have it.

Fired from my HTC One X+ with high capacity storage

 

[Chet0729]

A Winchendon, MA elementary school principal called the police to come to the school yesterday because kids were shooting elastics in the classroom. Principals are done nutting up its a shame. What's even worse is how much the cities and towns ( in MA anyways) are paying to have the security in their schools checked out by consultants ( most of which are a group of local LE that formed a company to do this), and then these same guys are preaching this ALICE retardedness.

Hey after all you could put an eye out.

Principals used to be leaders, educators, and managers.
What is it exactly they do now if they cant control kids with elastics.