~ A Sad Story of Woe . . .

[BOBKATT]

Except for one thing. If one believes in original intent of the constitution; then by 1783 standards a felony was punishable by death or loss of property that's it. That is the reason why there is no mention of ones rights being able to be suspended in the Constitution. You don't have any rights when your dead and being a felon was being dead as far as the framers were concerned. Just what I learned in one of my law classes.

I like the concept, but I don't like it for all felonies. Certainly there are many many crimes that I would support the death penalty for. But, with all of the laws on the books today that make one a felon, it is a very different legal time that would make this cut and dry "death penalty for all felons" thing, a little bit unreasonable now.

You could be a felon in MA for a number of reasons that wouldn't warrant the death penalty, or even jail time, in my opinion.

 

[OlSparky11B]

I go away and come back many hours later and you are all still at it? Come to any resolutions yet?

I sincerely hope those of you apparently active all day on this did not waste such a beautiful day on nonsense.

 

[BOBKATT]

I sincerely hope those of you apparently active all day on this did not waste such a beautiful day on nonsense.

It was cloudy here.

 

[M1911]

Wow. Just wow.

 

[el duderino]

.

​

It looks like a fist fired from a gun to punch nice little holes in those who would do you harm, damn I love my guns, theyre the best [STRIKE=tools]tools[/STRIKE] toys a person could have.​

 

[RichM]

I just spread around some reputation... I'll hit some more posts until I'm out!

... and I see our antagonist is now gray.....


I know that it seems like we've been beating our heads against the wall on each side of this series of arguments... but I think all this discussion HAS been useful... I know that it has shored up my convictions on a few of the points we've made here, and let me see some other points of view to help in making our argument to the antis.

Even though I haven't met some of you, I'll proudly call Jasons, Dr. Grant, Bobkatt, Nicole & Adam, NamedPipes, Bill O, and a few others of you my friends, and I'll look forward to the time we can meet and share a cold drink or two...

I'm guessing that this thread will soon run its course, and although I'd like to see it made a sticky for the educational value of the first post, and for the debating value of the free-ranging discussion that has followed, I'm betting that it will end up in the dust heap of locked threads to be dragged out when someone says "Do you remember that thread where...?" Thanks for the lively discussion, everyone!

 

[Acme.Armament]

Even though I haven't met some of you, I'll proudly call Jasons, Dr. Grant, Bobkatt, Nicole & Adam, NamedPipes, Bill O, and a few others of you my friends, and I'll look forward to the time we can meet and share a cold drink or two...

Same to you Rich.

 

[vellnueve]

... and I see our antagonist is now gray.....

Not anymore.

 

[Bill Katt]

I go away and come back many hours later and you are all still at it? Come to any resolutions yet?

I'm not sure. I went away for a bit and now I'm really lost.
I'm not sure if (according to Brandon) I'm supposed to be allowed to have killy, paper hole punching guns or not because I'm an oppressed Jewish-Mexican that enjoys reading the koran while eating a BLT & farting rainbows as well as squashing his 1A rights or not.






[/sarc]

 

[castros rat]

farting rainbows

 

[Nicole]

1. Yay! It came back!!

2. Statist.

You need to have checks and balances and some restrictions on things to maintan a certain environment.

That is so vague as to be utterly meaningless. What is a "certain environment"? That could be any environment.

Do I agree the government should say who can and can't have firearms? Yes and No, Yes they should not allow dangerous people to have firearms. No they shouldn't prohibit lawfull citizens from having firearms

So yes. You think that the government should get to decide who can and can't exercise a fundamental right. I don't. I think that with proper due process, we should remove people who pose a material harm to others from the general population (e.g. serial killers and child molesters). If we as a society do not feel that you are not dangerous enough to lock away in a prison, then you should be left alone as far as your fundamental rights go. As multiple people have pointed out - a person with wicked intentions can do plenty of damage with a knife, an axe, a couple gallons of gasoline, some fertilizer, a car, or any number of other things. Why are guns special? If someone can be trusted not to grab a butcher knife out of the kitchen and run out into the street and start stabbing people, then why do you think a gun in their house will suddenly tempt them into going over the deep end? Why do you believe that an inanimate object has that kind of power over people? The whole animism thing is sooooo last milleniums you know.

and is asking to have some safety training with firearms to much? shouldn't be since firearms are can very dangerous especially if you dont know how to handle one.

Hmmm...FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT. How about this?

And is asking to have some theological education too much? Should it be required since religion can be very dangerous, especially if you don't know how to handle a belief system?

or

And is asking to have some classical rhetoric training too much? Should it be required since speech and the press can be very dangerous, especially if you don't know how to handle a demagogue?

Oh yes, let's let some unqualified, appointed government functionary decide what is and is not appropriate training and then mandate it. And if we do that, then we'll need a permitting system. How would you feel about that for your other fundamental rights? Would you like to get government training for religion or speech, go put in an application, pay a fee, and be subject to the revocation of that permit at any time before you can go worship or power on your computer and head off into the internets?

The constitution was written over 200 years ago and some things need minor adjustments. The world is a totally different place then it was back then or even how it was 60 years ago. People dont respect each other or there property.

Oh poppycock. People are the same as they ever were. The nature of humanity doesn't change. The gloss and veneer certainly changes a bunch, but you're dealing with the same creatures underneath.

We don't need minor adjustments, we need major adjustments - we need to follow the bloody rules as they were written down.


You only get one fisking. I have brownies waiting for me. Toodles

 

[Brandon1317]

As multiple people have pointed out - a person with wicked intentions can do plenty of damage with a knife, an axe, a couple gallons of gasoline, some fertilizer, a car, or any number of other things. Why are guns special

It may be a little difficult to walk into a school and kills dozens of people with any of those items you mentioned so the crazies use guns which they cancel and reload quickly.

So your saying that if you can't be trusted with a gun when your let out of prison then you should be kept in prison? And who makes that decision the government or do we have a second trial to see if they are fit to re enter society. Maybe your missing the point then when you are let out of prison you have very little chance of doing anything good with your life in terms of getting a decent paying job and countless other things. That makes it so they re offend and may progress into worse crimes and can be a vicious circle for these people. How about if you just get probation do you keep your firearms rights? or do you want for the government to sign off and say your good to go.

Your last response sounded like it came from a un educated person not from some one with a Phd.
But what do I know I'm a idiot!

 

[namedpipes]

. . . I'm sure there is more then one racist on this board! and I bet the majority of people on here are white americans.

I can see that you're not a racist. You're a bigot.

Or maybe an idiot.


Or both.

All three?

 

[Brandon1317]

[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]

Why do you believe that an inanimate object has that kind of power over people?

[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]It looks that way because some on here believe there is nothing more important in life then a firearm. [/FONT]

 

[Brandon1317]

I can see that you're not a racist. You're a bigot.

Or maybe an idiot.


Or both.

All three?

Oh ya!

 

[jasons]

It looks that way because some on here believe there is nothing more important in life then a firearm.

That could well be the case, in certain circumstances.

 

[BOBKATT]

Even though I haven't met some of you, I'll proudly call Jasons, Dr. Grant, Bobkatt, Nicole & Adam, NamedPipes, Bill O, and a few others of you my friends, and I'll look forward to the time we can meet and share a cold drink or two...

Right back at you, Rich. I appreciate that.

 

[George D]

Did you guys hear about that dude that shot his partner with a Glock at point blank range?

 

[atmay]

Did you guys hear about that dude that shot his partner with a Glock at point blank range?

Yea! And even though the shootee is strangely OK with what happened, thed shooter should never be allowed to touch a gun again!!!111!1!oneoneone

 

[jasons]

Did you guys hear about that dude that shot his partner with a Glock at point blank range?

Really? Did the dude die?

 

[el duderino]

So your saying that if you can't be trusted with a gun when your let out of prison then you should be kept in prison? And who makes that decision the government or do we have a second trial to see if they are fit to re enter society. !

Isnt that a parole board?

[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]It looks that way because some on here believe there is nothing more important in life then a firearm. [/FONT]

Some of us dont like to give up our rights, those are important to us, our right to firearms ensures we can defend our other rights.

 

[namedpipes]

Oh ya!

Ya!

 

[jamesvt]

It may be a little difficult to walk into a school and kills dozens of people with any of those items you mentioned so the crazies use guns which they cancel and reload quickly.

I don't know how I missed this thread earlier. Once I saw it was 38 pages long I knew it had to be good.

 

[jasons]

It may be a little difficult to walk into a school and kills dozens of people with any of those items you mentioned so the crazies use guns which they cancel and reload quickly.

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

 

[BOBKATT]

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Wait, the deadliest mass-murder in a school in American history, back when Brandon said everything was safer and better, and they didn't even use those guns that Brandon told us we need checks and balances for?

This can't be true. Look, Brandon even says it right here:

It may be a little difficult to walk into a school and kills dozens of people with any of those items you mentioned so the crazies use guns which they cancel and reload quickly.

Wait, he's going to completely ignore the fact that home made bombs have been used to demolish entire office buildings, and tell us that this only happened because those explosives were legal back then. Wait for it....

 

[jasons]

Wait, the deadliest mass-murder in a school in American history, back when Brandon said everything was safer and better, and they didn't even use those guns that Brandon told us we need checks and balances for?

This can't be true.

Well, Pyrotol ~was~ originally designed to KILL!!!!!!!!1!!!

(Wait, it wasn't?)

 

[BOBKATT]

Well, Pyrotol ~was~ originally designed to KILL!!!!!!!!1!!!

(Wait, it wasn't?)

If you keep stealing his argument, we're not going to have anything to be entertained by.

I'm surprised he hasn't argued that under the loose definition of what we call fertilizer, some of it contains grub-ex which is originally designed to KILL. Grubs are people too.

 

[Bill Katt]

If you keep stealing his argument, we're not going to have anything to be entertained by.

There's always the part about most of us being white supremacists that want everyone to be able to have guns so that we can eradicate unicorns or whatever the eff it was that was said.

 

[BOBKATT]

There's always the part about most of us being white supremacists that want everyone to be able to have guns so that we can eradicate unicorns or whatever the eff it was that was said.

It was something like that, but then it was followed up by "I believe the problem with the country is all of the immigrants, us white folk (apparently assuming that we are all white) will soon be the minority and then our rights are gone. GONE I TELL YOU!! That threw me off completely. He sure don't like racists, but he sure don't like them immigrants and non-whites either.

Its almost straight out of Dave Chappelle's Black-White Supremacist skit.

 

[jasons]

Well folks - I've been called a government-brainwashed gun grabber AND told to go **** myself in this thread. I think my work here is done. Night.