40 yr LTC Holder; renewal denied last week

[pthomas65]

A good friend of mine and an avid shooter for many many years called to check on why his renewal was taking over 6 months. 3 days later the State returned his call to inform him that his LTC has been denied due a DUI conviction in 1995. Sooooo between 1995 and now why was he continually reissued his LTC?
Now what does he do? In reading some old posts it looks like he is screwed and what happens to all his guns now?

 

[Palladin]

call Comm2A

 

[pthomas65]

I will pass this on.
His son & wife live with him, the wife has an LTC, can the firearms stay under her license?

 

[Precision Point Firearms]

As his licenses is no longer active he would need to transfer them to her using a dealer as the EFA-10 system will not recognize ho's license. I would call attorney Jason Guida he just dealt with this for one of my clients last month. They met with the chief on Monday and the client was reissued his license.

 

[Quiet]

A good friend of mine and an avid shooter for many many years called to check on why his renewal was taking over 6 months. 3 days later the State returned his call to inform him that his LTC has been denied due a DUI conviction in 1995. Sooooo between 1995 and now why was he continually reissued his LTC?
Now what does he do? In reading some old posts it looks like he is screwed and what happens to all his guns now?

My understanding:
Because he's been denied, he cannot be in possession of his guns. If he is still in possession of them, he is breaking a law with felony criminal penalties. He needs to loan them to a friend or relative with an LTC to take possession, or sell them to or through an FFL.

If his LTC had only expired, he's just be in violation of a law with civil penalties as long as he kept them in his house and didn't transport them anywhere.

- - - Updated - - -

As his licenses is no longer active he would need to transfer them to her using a dealer as the EFA-10 system will not recognize ho's license. I would call attorney Jason Guida he just dealt with this for one of my clients last month. They met with the chief on Monday and the client was reissued his license.

He can loan his guns to his wife indefinitely as far as I know. But an attorney would definitely be a good idea.

 

[LoginName]

The conviction probably never made it into the system and never showed up during the background checks all those years..

It finally showed up because the backlog of records was updated.

He could be screwed another way also if he didn't disclose the DUI when he filled out the LTC application (perjury).

 

[Precision Point Firearms]

Section 129D. Upon revocation, suspension or denial of an application for a firearm identification card pursuant to the conditions of section one hundred and twenty-nine B, or of any firearms license if said firearms identification card is not then in force or of any machine gun license, the person whose application was so revoked, suspended or denied shall without delay deliver or surrender, to the licensing authority where he resides, all firearms, rifles, shotguns and machine guns and ammunition which he then possesses unless an appeal is pending.

in the previous circumstance, Jason was able to convince the department to simply allow him to have all the guns go right to the me instead of going to the police department and they were transfered to a family member instead of evidence room limbo.

 

[Quiet]

in the previous circumstance, Jason was able to convince the department to simply allow him to have all the guns go right to the me instead of going to the police department and they were transfered to a family member instead of evidence room limbo.

They had already been loaned to his wife the night before, he wasn't in possession of them. Or he appeals, and during the appeal he loans them to her.

Ownership =/= possession

But I'm not a lawyer.

 

[Len-2A Training]

The conviction probably never made it into the system and never showed up during the background checks all those years..

It finally showed up because the backlog of records was updated.

He could be screwed another way also if he didn't disclose the DUI when he filled out the LTC application (perjury).

^^ This!

Take the advice from Precision Point above.

The fact that he has not turned over the guns to the PD puts him in jeopardy of a felony conviction (C. 269 S. 10). He can NOT have his Wife take possession under the law, they have to go to the PD and then they can be transferred to the Wife as long as he never touches them (if it was a real conviction not a CWOF wrt "suitability" then he's a PP federally). Atty Guida will assist him in dealing with this within the law.

 

[pthomas65]

The conviction probably never made it into the system and never showed up during the background checks all those years..

It finally showed up because the backlog of records was updated.

He could be screwed another way also if he didn't disclose the DUI when he filled out the LTC application (perjury).

He did disclose his OUI on the renewal, he hadnt in the past.

 

[pthomas65]

^^ This!

Take the advice from Precision Point above.

The fact that he has not turned over the guns to the PD puts him in jeopardy of a felony conviction (C. 269 S. 10). He can NOT have his Wife take possession under the law, they have to go to the PD and then they can be transferred to the Wife as long as he never touches them (if it was a real conviction not a CWOF wrt "suitability" then he's a PP federally). Atty Guida will assist him in dealing with this within the law.

It was not a CWOF, he was convicted.
Thanks for the advice, I will let him know.

 

[n1bsbri]

...
Thanks for the advice, I will let him know.

My advise would be to delete this thread, and have him contact a lawyer. Don't post up details on a public forum...

 

[LoginName]

He did disclose his OUI on the renewal, he hadnt in the past.

What about the previous renewals?

In 18 years he's had to renew his LTC at least 3 times.

If he only disclosed the DUI recently, and not previously, that's grounds for denial right there... at the very least for unsuitability.

 

[BostonFJ40]

He did disclose his OUI on the renewal, he hadnt in the past.

Then he's done.

 

[pthomas65]

Then he's done.

Thanks guys, I guess @ this point a lawyer is his only prayer.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Unlike a lot of you, I'm not a big tinfoil user. No need to delete the thread, hide under a table, etc.

He's done and he knows it, it really is that simple. Now he's looking for a way to deal with it legally . . . at least that is what I get from this thread.

Legally he's a Federally and MA PP. His only option (assuming NO other incidents before/after) is to appeal to FLRB for reinstatement of his MA gun rights. He'll likely win that one and then he can re-apply and MAYBE granted his LTC back (unless they hold the application perjury against him). The Feds won't update their database so likely he won't be able to pass NICS, but the Feds did agree NOT to prosecute those folks (with FLRB restored rights) as PPs.

 

[Wendell]

This is another example of how insidious is the "prohibited person" label.
Does the average American really believe that a person should be prohibited - permanently - just for a fifteen-year-old DUI that did not warrant any jail time?
Each and every time the topic of a person with dual-citizenship comes up (like Paul Ryan), some vocal holier-than-thou types preach (to anyone who'll listen) that the dual-national should immediately renounce one of their citizenships.; these critics either don't know or don't care about the gun rights (in the USA, at least) of the dual-national.

 

[pthomas65]

Unlike a lot of you, I'm not a big tinfoil user. No need to delete the thread, hide under a table, etc.

He's done and he knows it, it really is that simple. Now he's looking for a way to deal with it legally . . . at least that is what I get from this thread.

Legally he's a Federally and MA PP. His only option (assuming NO other incidents before/after) is to appeal to FLRB for reinstatement of his MA gun rights. He'll likely win that one and then he can re-apply and MAYBE granted his LTC back (unless they hold the application perjury against him). The Feds won't update their database so likely he won't be able to pass NICS, but the Feds did agree NOT to prosecute those folks (with FLRB restored rights) as PPs.

Good information, thanks. This guy was my best man @ my wedding back in 1969.

 

[JackO]

...some vocal holier-than-thou types preach (to anyone who'll listen) that the dual-national should immediately renounce one of their citizenships.; these critics either don't know or don't care about the gun rights (in the USA, at least) of the dual-national.

What are the gun rights of dual national? Are they different than gun rights of US citizen (single national)?

 

[PaulR]

That sh!ts f!@#d up.

 

[warwickben]

This is another example of how insidious is the "prohibited person" label.
Does the average American really believe that a person should be prohibited - permanently - just for a fifteen-year-old DUI that did not warrant any jail time?
Each and every time the topic of a person with dual-citizenship comes up (like Paul Ryan), some vocal holier-than-thou types preach (to anyone who'll listen) that the dual-national should immediately renounce one of their citizenships.; these critics either don't know or don't care about the gun rights (in the USA, at least) of the dual-national.

One thing the op didn't say was if the DUI was in mass or not. Sadly mass a DUI makes you a felon . If it happen in a different state wouldn't the person have a fighting chance at least ?

 

[pthomas65]

One thing the op didn't say was if the DUI was in mass or not. Sadly mass a DUI makes you a felon . If it happen in a different state wouldn't the person have a fighting chance at least ?

Was in MA

 

[n1bsbri]

Unlike a lot of you, I'm not a big tinfoil user. No need to delete the thread, hide under a table, etc.

I don't think it's tinfoil to STFU on matters that could affect someone's PP status, or worse possible new charges for perjury, etc. I guess if the OP doesn't care about the legal troubles that could ensue, then blab away. In my world, I'd let a lawyer do the talking.

 

[Glasgow Grin]

I don't think it's tinfoil to STFU on matters that could affect someone's PP status, or worse possible new charges for perjury, etc. I guess if the OP doesn't care about the legal troubles that could ensue, then blab away. In my world, I'd let a lawyer do the talking.

Yeah. It's paranoia. I see similar cases more often than you may think. Figuring out who the guy is would be nearly impossible. On average, I see one or two a week with a DUI that they fail to disclose.

 

[n1bsbri]

Yeah. It's paranoia. I see similar cases more often than you may think. Figuring out who the guy is would be nearly impossible. On average, I see one or two a week with a DUI that they fail to disclose.

Are you saying you don't have access to those NSA databases?

 

[LoginName]

Yeah. It's paranoia. I see similar cases more often than you may think. Figuring out who the guy is would be nearly impossible. On average, I see one or two a week with a DUI that they fail to disclose.

Probably doesn't matter at this point, but there are already enough clues for a determined person with access to narrow it down, if not outright figure it out.

 

[nickortizzle1035]

my old man is having the same issue. had his LTC for years. goes to renew it and gets a call from the local chief telling him that the LTC was denied after having it for about a decade. Chief resubmits the application and my old man gets approved for a FID… apparently it all stems back to a CWOF from the 1970s for possession.

 

[Len-2A Training]

One thing the op didn't say was if the DUI was in mass or not. Sadly mass a DUI makes you a felon . If it happen in a different state wouldn't the person have a fighting chance at least ?

An interesting question (no, never asked so I don't know the answer) is can FLRB restore on a non-MA conviction? Most states let you expunge a conviction if you fly straight and apply to a judge after x years. MA is totally non-forgiving for anything we do.

I don't think it's tinfoil to STFU on matters that could affect someone's PP status, or worse possible new charges for perjury, etc. I guess if the OP doesn't care about the legal troubles that could ensue, then blab away. In my world, I'd let a lawyer do the talking.

They have his prior applications. If they want to prosecute they don't need info on NES to make that decision. It's not like this would be new info for them. My PD keeps a paper file on all applicants going back to day-1. My Lt. Faxed me my first two applications for LTC (back in 1976 & 1981) at my request (for a future legal action I have planned).

my old man is having the same issue. had his LTC for years. goes to renew it and gets a call from the local chief telling him that the LTC was denied after having it for about a decade. Chief resubmits the application and my old man gets approved for a FID… apparently it all stems back to a CWOF from the 1970s for possession.

Real CWOFs are NOT legal DQs. Chiefs can deny but the denial is on "suitability" and in no way makes a person a PP! A lawyer (hint: Atty Guida) may be able to fix this problem.

 

[Glasgow Grin]

Probably doesn't matter at this point, but there are already enough clues for a determined person with access to narrow it down, if not outright figure it out.

And what? Deny him his LTC?

 

[tucoperk]

If he is not a "felon" who the f*** cares. LTC is Unconstitutional to begin with. He can keep all his guns and move and get a lot less hassle or keep them and not move and worry about hassle.