My press is almost set up but i am getting confused on reloading 357 mag. I am reading that it requires a roll press and that it does not? I am only looking to produce target ammo for my pistol at this point. I bought hornady carbide dies for the lnl press and if I understand correctly, the dies i bought, if adjusted correctly, will turn the case into the cannelure on the bullet. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.
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357 mag crimping?
- Thread starter yogi
- Start date
Most bullet seating dies will also do the crimp. You have to adjust the height of the die body to get the crimp you want and then adjust the screw part at the top to set the bullet depth. I make up a dummy round with no powder and no primer for each bullet type I load. It helps me to set the die up each time I change loads. I slip the dummy round in, lower the die body until it hits and then turn down the bullet seater until it hits. That gets me right in the ball park.
What cobblepot said. Once you get the die set up to give you the amount of crimp you need, make one or two dummy rounds and put them aside. That will save you a lot of time in setting up the die in the future.
thanks everyone. Couldn't find dukeIn maine's post no matter how I searched but I did find this, which answered some other questions: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/141976-reloading-357-Magnum?highlight=crimping+357 I have a lot more reserach to do.
If you're loading jacketed bullets with a cannelure, or cast lead bullets with a crimp groove, you'll want to put a roll crimp on a .357 magnum cartridge.
The crimp in the picture above is a light roll crimp. You'll need a stronger crimp if you're going to load one of the slower powders, or if you'll be firing the rounds in a very light handgun (like a S&W Scandium J-frame).
If you're loading bullets without a cannelure, you can't use a roll crimp, so taper crimp instead. Just don't load them hot with slow powders, and don't shoot them out of a lightweight revolver.
The crimp in the picture above is a light roll crimp. You'll need a stronger crimp if you're going to load one of the slower powders, or if you'll be firing the rounds in a very light handgun (like a S&W Scandium J-frame).
If you're loading bullets without a cannelure, you can't use a roll crimp, so taper crimp instead. Just don't load them hot with slow powders, and don't shoot them out of a lightweight revolver.
EC, for clarification both the taper and roll crimp are performed with the same die. The roll crimp is used with bullets that have the cannelure or crimp groove and the taper crimp (just removing the belling) is used with bullets that are smooth sided. The Hornady suggets 1/2 turn from touching for the crimp which will perform a taper crimp, I find for a roll crimp the die needs to be turned in quite a bit more.
Chris
55_grain
NES Member
In my (limited) .357 experience, I had inconsistent-feeling rounds using H110 and a plated 158g projo with a very light crimp (LEE FCD). I was afraid that I'd cut thru the plating with a heavier crimp. Small mag primer.
I switched to jacketed rounds and put a more robust crimp on them. They're much more consistent in recoil/report. Could I crimp the plated rounds that much and get away with it? I dunno.
I switched to jacketed rounds and put a more robust crimp on them. They're much more consistent in recoil/report. Could I crimp the plated rounds that much and get away with it? I dunno.
one-eyed Jack
Manufacturer
I don't usually trim .357 mag cases, so I seat and crimp with separate dies. I get consistent OAL this way and I crimp by "feel". Jack.
Finally loaded and tested my first batch. The test rounds fired flawlessly in my S&W 686. But i could not follow the Lyman manual to attain their OAL 1.59. I measured Remington factory loads of 125 gr JHP that i was trying to duplicate and they measured 1.675. I used Speer 125 gr JHP and to get the correct roll crimp i was ending up at 1.678. As the recipe was light (6.5 gr bullseye with CCI 550 pistol mag primers) i determined going longer would lessen pressure if anything. I know i should follow the book to the letter but in the early chapter they stated "generally, the OAL listed should be used.". So, is this a normal discreptency that occurs? Did i just get lucky? Thanks fo all the help in getting started!
I have found unless you are useing the same bullet manufacture and style over all length can be a bit different.
Ex. When first loaded some cast 158 gn semiwad cutters to hornady spec it put the crimp grove to deep and crimp was not at crimp groove. I adjusted the die until correct.
also found this happen with. 223 bullets with cannelure from different manufactures.
take your time. Re read the die instructions. I went with a old reloaders advice. Roll crimp your revolver rounds if your bullets have csnnelure or crimp grove.
Ex. When first loaded some cast 158 gn semiwad cutters to hornady spec it put the crimp grove to deep and crimp was not at crimp groove. I adjusted the die until correct.
also found this happen with. 223 bullets with cannelure from different manufactures.
take your time. Re read the die instructions. I went with a old reloaders advice. Roll crimp your revolver rounds if your bullets have csnnelure or crimp grove.
I don't know if this relates to your issue, but H110 (like WW296) are slow burning magnum powders that are used for full power loads w/ a pretty strong crimp. Plated bullets are really plinkers that don't like to go more than 1100, maybe 1200fps max. Which is why I use Unique or WW231 for plated & non-GC'd casts coupled with a light crimp. It's possible that you were pushing them too hard. How was the accuracy?
BTW...Berrys plated 158 don't have a cannelure if that is what you were using, so a stronger crimp isn't the answer for those for sure.
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I got some plated 158gn. hp round nose bullet heads to load .357 that have the cannelure too low so that the OAL is too long to seat in the cannelure. I"m past the cannelure and still have .06" to go to get to 1.590 so I'd have to taper crimp.
I compared a bullet from the last batch and the cannelure is just a bit lower toward the base on these.
Send them back or follow this advice?
Planned to use 7gn of Unique in a GP100.
I compared a bullet from the last batch and the cannelure is just a bit lower toward the base on these.
Send them back or follow this advice?
Planned to use 7gn of Unique in a GP100.
When roll crimping, you'll want to have consistent case lengths, otherwise the crimping will vary. Generally, I don't measure/trim most pistol brass, but for consistent roll crimps, it might be worth the effort.
Many die manufacturers will provide shims to allow for die adjustments with different calibers (.38 Spl/.357 Mag., .44 Spl/.44 Mag., .40 S&W/10mm Auto, etc.). You would use the thin shim when adjusting your seater/crimp die for.38 Special. You adjust the die without shims to where the proper roll crimp is applied. Add the thin shim to allow the roll crimp to avoid contact when seating the bullet in .38 Special. Back off the seater top punch and remove the shim; now roll crimp your rounds.
When loading .357 Magnum add both shims while seating your bullets. Remove the thin shim to apply the roll crimp.
The shims allow for a one-time die adjustment and done.
Generally, you don't want to be applying the crimp while seating the bullet, hence, a two-step procedure.
Many die manufacturers will provide shims to allow for die adjustments with different calibers (.38 Spl/.357 Mag., .44 Spl/.44 Mag., .40 S&W/10mm Auto, etc.). You would use the thin shim when adjusting your seater/crimp die for.38 Special. You adjust the die without shims to where the proper roll crimp is applied. Add the thin shim to allow the roll crimp to avoid contact when seating the bullet in .38 Special. Back off the seater top punch and remove the shim; now roll crimp your rounds.
When loading .357 Magnum add both shims while seating your bullets. Remove the thin shim to apply the roll crimp.
The shims allow for a one-time die adjustment and done.
Generally, you don't want to be applying the crimp while seating the bullet, hence, a two-step procedure.
It is just disappointing that there is a difference in the placement of the cannelure in these. The last ones worked great and I'd rather do it right than have to wonder if the next bullet is going to lock up my gun if the bullets creep. Maybe I'll just use these for .38 sp.
Using a Lee carbide 3 die set. I'll see if my die applies taper before it roll crimps and try not to go through the plating.
Using a Lee carbide 3 die set. I'll see if my die applies taper before it roll crimps and try not to go through the plating.
They’re probably intended for 38 special, and the new cannelure placement could be advantageous for feeding in lever guns. I once pulled a Remington hollow point from a damaged 38 round I got out of a dud can and tried to load it in 357M, but the OAL was too long with that bullet.
I don’t have taper crimp dies in my revolver calibers. With the plated rounds I bought when I started reloading, I just applied the enough roll crimp to remove the case flare. Seemed to work for me. Then I ran out of plated bullets and never bought any more.
I don’t have taper crimp dies in my revolver calibers. With the plated rounds I bought when I started reloading, I just applied the enough roll crimp to remove the case flare. Seemed to work for me. Then I ran out of plated bullets and never bought any more.
Sorry, missed that old date.
You will find that not all bullets are suited for specific calibers based on placement of the cannelure. The cannelure or crimp groove may vary from batch to batch even from the same manufacturer. I've got two identical mold numbers from Lyman and they have a different location for the crimp groove.
You can figure your firearm's maximum COL by measuring the cylinder with a fire case inserted. If a round seated to the cannelure chambers, you are GTG, but don't assume your reloads will function properly in other firearms.
If you are getting bullet creep, it may cause cylinder lockup, as it pops forward of the cylinder.
Some broad profile bullets may not chamber and hang up on the cylinder throat when seated to the crimp groove, even when within COL specs. (I think it was the LBT 185g that did this in my GP-100). I had to seat them beyond the crimp groove to get them to chamber
Generally, taper crimping will be adequate in most of these scenarios.
In a pinch, you may be able to restore the flare and do a slight crimp by using your sizer die without the decap stem. Don't run it all the way to the shell holder, of course!
Pics are a 205g (.35 Remington bullet) seated in a .38 Special. COL is 1.66", IIRC.
This is not a recommendation for you...
You will find that not all bullets are suited for specific calibers based on placement of the cannelure. The cannelure or crimp groove may vary from batch to batch even from the same manufacturer. I've got two identical mold numbers from Lyman and they have a different location for the crimp groove.
You can figure your firearm's maximum COL by measuring the cylinder with a fire case inserted. If a round seated to the cannelure chambers, you are GTG, but don't assume your reloads will function properly in other firearms.
If you are getting bullet creep, it may cause cylinder lockup, as it pops forward of the cylinder.
Some broad profile bullets may not chamber and hang up on the cylinder throat when seated to the crimp groove, even when within COL specs. (I think it was the LBT 185g that did this in my GP-100). I had to seat them beyond the crimp groove to get them to chamber
Generally, taper crimping will be adequate in most of these scenarios.
In a pinch, you may be able to restore the flare and do a slight crimp by using your sizer die without the decap stem. Don't run it all the way to the shell holder, of course!
Pics are a 205g (.35 Remington bullet) seated in a .38 Special. COL is 1.66", IIRC.
This is not a recommendation for you...
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38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
If you seat them long will they stillchamber? If so then you’re good to go.
You’re loading longer which will reduce pressures for the given load (as long as they’re not jammed into the rifling or require hammering into a cylinder to get it to close)
As far as a crimp you could look into the lee collet crimping dies which can be used without a cannelure. It will basically pinch crimp the bullet into the jacket creating its own cannelure.
Kudos for stopping to check yourself before you loaded them.
I always try to figure on the cautious end when working with bullets that don’t exactly match the book loads. Casting my own puts me in this circumstance all the time.
So I basically
work with data from the next heaviest bullet (250 grain data for the 242 grain cast bullets)
Try to compare the bullet length and crimp groove height to figure out if I have the same seating depth. A 270 grain Ohaus seats at the same depth as a 230 RN in a 45 ACP.
There are so many variation of 148 grain wadcutters. Type I type II and type III. all the same weight and different seating depths.
Max loads for a type III (seats out of the case as far as a standard round nose) would be dangerous in a type I (seats flush to the case mouth)
If you work these variables on the cautious side you’re ok.
If you run max loads with a 158 in your 357 and your new batch of bullets comes in with a cannelure higher up on the bullet. When you seat deeper to the cannelure you’re going to run into over pressure.
You’re loading longer which will reduce pressures for the given load (as long as they’re not jammed into the rifling or require hammering into a cylinder to get it to close)
As far as a crimp you could look into the lee collet crimping dies which can be used without a cannelure. It will basically pinch crimp the bullet into the jacket creating its own cannelure.
Kudos for stopping to check yourself before you loaded them.
I always try to figure on the cautious end when working with bullets that don’t exactly match the book loads. Casting my own puts me in this circumstance all the time.
So I basically
work with data from the next heaviest bullet (250 grain data for the 242 grain cast bullets)
Try to compare the bullet length and crimp groove height to figure out if I have the same seating depth. A 270 grain Ohaus seats at the same depth as a 230 RN in a 45 ACP.
There are so many variation of 148 grain wadcutters. Type I type II and type III. all the same weight and different seating depths.
Max loads for a type III (seats out of the case as far as a standard round nose) would be dangerous in a type I (seats flush to the case mouth)
If you work these variables on the cautious side you’re ok.
If you run max loads with a 158 in your 357 and your new batch of bullets comes in with a cannelure higher up on the bullet. When you seat deeper to the cannelure you’re going to run into over pressure.
Oh, one more thing....
If you pick up any of the FTX bullet brass (Hornady LEVERevolution ammo), I believe these cases may be shorter than spec (at least the .45 Colt and .45-70 Gov't are reported to be shorter than standard). If you have mixed length brass, this will mess up your roll crimp consistency. I'm not saying that you have to segregate your brass by headstamp, but why frustrate yourself by mixing assorted case lengths?
If you pick up any of the FTX bullet brass (Hornady LEVERevolution ammo), I believe these cases may be shorter than spec (at least the .45 Colt and .45-70 Gov't are reported to be shorter than standard). If you have mixed length brass, this will mess up your roll crimp consistency. I'm not saying that you have to segregate your brass by headstamp, but why frustrate yourself by mixing assorted case lengths?
I have been sorting by headstamp so far. I also seat and crimp separately.
They chambered in the GP100 even long with a tiny bit to spare, so I left them at the OAL of ~1.615 and crimped them in the cannelure as usual.
In the LCR they came right to the edge of the cylinder and the gap is pretty tight, so I may try a few with caution to see how my crimps hold. The rest will become .38 special.
Thanks again.
They chambered in the GP100 even long with a tiny bit to spare, so I left them at the OAL of ~1.615 and crimped them in the cannelure as usual.
In the LCR they came right to the edge of the cylinder and the gap is pretty tight, so I may try a few with caution to see how my crimps hold. The rest will become .38 special.
Thanks again.
I've found that for best results...... Real 357 magnum is best loaded with copper jacketed bullets with a good canneleur. I've tried working up even mild to med pressure 357 Ioads with plated bullets and the light crimp required for plated bullets ....I end up with crimp jump.
I save the plated and cast bullets for 38 special. For me so far......I have found that better quality jacketed bullets like Speer and Hornady have a more consistent canneleur. 38 special I barely crimp them with any type of bullet......very low pressure load and the neck tension alone keeps them in place during firing. Just enough on the crimper to remove the flair.
