Yup, I watched it. Well done RD. They posted this yesterday.
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Haha, yes. At the muzzle, that 400 ft/lbs advantage means diddly squat. At the muzzle, both have enough energy to kill anything in North America.Eh... I guess the roughly 400 ft/pounds in energy advantage the 308 has over the 6.5 means nothing then. Thanks for clarifying.
I’m getting more interested in 6 GT recently and may bypass 6 arc all together. As long as 6 GT gets more factory support, anyway.6 ARC. 6 GT is for across the course and benchrest nerds.
The 308 still has more energy even at that range. Although at that range, I would argue BOTH are becoming unethical. 30-06 becomes the minimum with something like a 300 Win Mag being the standard if you want to reach out and touch big game.Haha, yes. At the muzzle, that 400 ft/lbs advantage means diddly squat. At the muzzle, both have enough energy to kill anything in North America.
Out to 500 yards they both have enough energy to effectively penetrate game to reach vitals and effectively open up good hunting bullets.
At that range, the consideration is skill and environmental factors. They’ll both penetrate enough to pass through vitals and can expand. Whether someone is able to repeatedly place a vital shot in the current wind/weather, I think, is what determines ethics there.The 308 still has more energy even at that range. Although at that range, I would argue BOTH are becoming unethical. 30-06 becomes the minimum with something like a 300 Win Mag being the standard if you want to reach out and touch big game.
At that range, the consideration is skill and environmental factors. They’ll both penetrate enough to pass through vitals and can expand. Whether someone is able to repeatedly place a vital shot in the current wind/weather, I think, is what determines ethics there.
But please tell me how the extra 400 ft/lbs at the muzzle matters? You have a 0.5” wound channel going through vitals vs a 0.55” wound channel. Both pass through the heart or lungs. How does the extra couple to few hundred ft/lbs of energy improve lethality?
Well, for one, if at distance, a lot can happen in the time it takes your bullet to get there. The animal can take half a step and now that heart/lungs becomes a shoulder shot hitting thick bone... What if your shot opportunity isn't a perfect broadside? What if it's a hard quartering or head-on shot where you have to punch through the chest plate?
So you ask why that extra energy matters..... Well when you're shooting at a stationary target, like paper, under ideal conditions, I guess it doesn't. But when taking shots on moving wild game in the field, with unpredictable and changing shot angles and distances, that extra energy matters. It matters a lot. An ethical hunter doesn't carry enough gun just to get the job done when everything goes right. He carries enough gun to get the job done when things don't go entirely according to the script.
Most shots on game occur inside 300 yards. There is still a large disparity between the 6.5 and 308 at that range. Even still, the 6.5 is unethical at any range on large game, IMHO.Are you saying that at point blank, when 308 has the extra 400 ft/lbs of energy, that a 6.5 CM won’t penetrate through a shoulder?
Most shots on game occur inside 300 yards. There is still a large disparity between the 6.5 and 308 at that range. Even still, the 6.5 is unethical at any range on large game, IMHO.
Edit:... and it's not just punching through the shoulder... It's punching through the shoulder, rib cage, then both lungs, and retaining structural integrity and weight while doing so. The 308, enjoys a 20% energy advantage and a nearly 40% weight advantage. You just can't argue which is better in this use case.
Yea, you're right... When it comes to things like chamber pressures, barrel life, down range energy.... the 6.5 doesn't hold a candle to the .30 cals. There simply is no comparison. I mean hell, if you really wanted to go full vaginal sniper, you could at least argue for the 6.5 PRC.... But Creedmore.... That's a cute little rifle you got there. Does your non-binary adolescent they/them kid enjoy shooting it?
The exact same thing could be said about the 6.5 Creedmore. It's for man bun wearing, straight-edge, gender studies majors afraid of the .270.
I disagree. Depending on situation, prone is not always an option. Hard to tell from the picture but form doesn’t look half bad. When shooting elevated you want to stack bones and get square behind the rifle like he is to mitigate movement as well as recoil.that photo - i could never understand why they use this position at all, bending forward like this - you cannot hit anything well holding that pose.
snipers would shoot prone. if you`re by the window - you would find something to sit on. but to bend forward like this and bounce in your waist looks pretty stupid. and if shooting standing up, you would usually find something to lean at, to press your left shoulder into, to stop movement.
There's a lot of falsehoods and just incomplete information in your post. I'll assume that was unintentional. First off, yes I have shot the barrel out of firearms. Which is why I prefer cartridges where that happens after tens of thousands of rounds, as opposed to only a few thousand rounds. Secondly, any rifle manufacturer that makes a rifle and a long action has an offering in 270. To your point some manufacturers do not offer the 270. They also don't offer the 30-06, or the 300 Win Mag, but I digress. That's not because those cartridges aren't popular, it's because they don't make rifles in a long action.New Englanders... talking about barrel life and long range calibers. Have you ever shot out a barrel on anything? Do you even have access to a range greater than 500 yards? Based on the fact that you're saying 270 is better than 6.5 creed im guessing not.
270 is probably a "better" round for eastern whitetails inside of 400yds but for long range precision its not even close. Also, 270 is pretty much dead/non existent in the precision rifle and "sniper" world, and its rapidly on its way out in the western big game world, in fact many major rifle manufacturers have completely stopped chambering rifles in 270win.
Id bet money that 6.5 creed has taken more elk and even brown bear than 270 in the western states in the past 5-10 years.
Most shots on game occur inside 300 yards. There is still a large disparity between the 6.5 and 308 at that range. Even still, the 6.5 is unethical at any range on large game, IMHO.
Edit:... and it's not just punching through the shoulder... It's punching through the shoulder, rib cage, then both lungs, and retaining structural integrity and weight while doing so. The 308, enjoys a 20% energy advantage and a nearly 40% weight advantage. You just can't argue which is better in this use case.
Wow you're awful defensive there bud. I get it. You bought into the 300 Blackout craze didn't you. And now you're salty you got smoked by another fashion statement caliber that is no longer in vogue. It burns you up that the 300 blackout rifles you bought now set idle in the safe next to your 40s. All in the name of cartridge advancement.Im sure you're one of those guys who think shots on game past 300yds are also unethical. Because you cant hit reliably past that distance because you shoot big calibers hoping that minor energy advantages to compensate for your shortcomings/lack of confidence in shot placement and recoil management. Ie shooting for shoulders instead of just behind them.
We get it, cartridge/rifle technology has advanced since 1975 and you're super salty about it because nobody thinks your 270 is cool anymore.
I’m getting more interested in 6 GT recently and may bypass 6 arc all together. As long as 6 GT gets more factory support, anyway.
It seems to achieve similar velocities as 6 CM, but with less powder.
I’m thinking 6 GayTiger next too.
There's a lot of falsehoods and just incomplete information in your post. I'll assume that was unintentional. First off, yes I have shot the barrel out of firearms. Which is why I prefer cartridges where that happens after tens of thousands of rounds, as opposed to only a few thousand rounds. Secondly, any rifle manufacturer that makes a rifle and a long action has an offering in 270. To your point some manufacturers do not offer the 270. They also don't offer the 30-06, or the 300 Win Mag, but I digress. That's not because those cartridges aren't popular, it's because they don't make rifles in a long action.
Wow you're awful defensive there bud. I get it. You bought into the 300 Blackout craze didn't you. And now you're salty you got smoked by another fashion statement caliber that is no longer in vogue. It burns you up that the 300 blackout rifles you bought now set idle in the safe next to your 40s. All in the name of cartridge advancement.
What do you think about the 26 Nosler or 264 win mag for big game?Most shots on game occur inside 300 yards. There is still a large disparity between the 6.5 and 308 at that range. Even still, the 6.5 is unethical at any range on large game, IMHO.
Edit:... and it's not just punching through the shoulder... It's punching through the shoulder, rib cage, then both lungs, and retaining structural integrity and weight while doing so. The 308, enjoys a 20% energy advantage and a nearly 40% weight advantage. You just can't argue which is better in this use case.
If suppressors were legal in MA, I'd seriously consider a 300BLK SBR as a home defense rife.Lol no i think we can all agree 300blk is useless for everything except wasting somebody in their bed while their kids are sleeping in the next room.
Lol no i think we can all agree 300blk is useless for everything except wasting somebody in their bed while their kids are sleeping in the next room.
Im honestly with you on cardashian calibers, all the new wizbang stuff is sold by "the industry" to get you to go buy the latest hotness when to be honest, your 270 is still PLENTY capable for your standard use.
I mainly shoot 556 and 308 at distance, i got the creedmoor for long distance precision shooting on paper and people if need be and for that use its pretty sweet.
Where you lost me is when you started saying 270 is better than 6.5 at distance shooting because that is ballistically inaccurate.
Where you lost me is when you started saying 270 is better than 6.5 at distance shooting because that is ballistically inaccurate.
By all your logic about energy, bow hunting is unethical.
New Englanders... talking about barrel life and long range calibers. Have you ever shot out a barrel on anything? Do you even have access to a range greater than 500 yards? Based on the fact that you're saying 270 is better than 6.5 creed im guessing not.
270 is probably a "better" round for eastern whitetails inside of 400yds but for long range precision its not even close. Also, 270 is pretty much dead/non existent in the precision rifle and "sniper" world, and its rapidly on its way out in the western big game world, in fact many major rifle manufacturers have completely stopped chambering rifles in 270win.
Id bet money that 6.5 creed has taken more elk and even brown bear than 270 in the western states in the past 5-10 years.
Except I never said that. There is no doubt the 6.5 has its advantages. Flatter, faster, less recoil... It's a great target round with a part-time hunting hobby. But in a hunting use case, I would rather have a 30-06 or a .270 at real-world hunting distances, taking real-world shots on wild game. The ranges typical hunting shots occur at do not allow for the 6.5's advantages to be leveraged, and the .270, 30-06, and even the .308 perform better on game
This has turned into the funniest message thread of 2023.
False. Guns also kill via hemorrhaging by crushing tissue (what you call cutting). Generally you need a fragmenting rifle bullet (often in varmint loads) in order to turn temporary cavity into permanent wounding. Otherwise, the most common rifle wounding mechanism is crushing tissue.Apples to oranges. Arrows kill via cutting and hemorrhaging. Guns kill via blunt force trauma. But if you want to debate the merits of light vs heavy arrows and mechanicals vs single bevel fixed-blade broadheads, there is plenty of room for debate here too.