Chinese labor costs are very low, so everything is built there now. But, chinese metalurgy skills are stuck back in the '50s technlogy. You want a tool with high quality steel and properly heat treated, it is coming from US/Germany, etc.
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WTF happened to Craftsman tools!?!?!
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Chinese labor costs are very low, so everything is built there now. But, chinese metalurgy skills are stuck back in the '50s technlogy. You want a tool with high quality steel and properly heat treated, it is coming from US/Germany, etc.
JuergenG
NES Member
With tools it's the same as with optics for the shooting sport: Buy cheap, pay twice.
For me it's either this http://www.gedore.de/en/index.html or that http://www.hazet.com/en/
No tools from any Home Depot-like chain stores, as it's all cheap crap made with chopsticks.
For me it's either this http://www.gedore.de/en/index.html or that http://www.hazet.com/en/
No tools from any Home Depot-like chain stores, as it's all cheap crap made with chopsticks.
Yes.
I have never been disappointed by a tool purchase on eBay. However, I am very careful to understand what I am buying. I'm not just buying random stuff that looks old. I am buying products made from well known manufacturers in the heyday of their production.
And just because it "feels" good and you think it's quality, that means nothing. The only way to know for sure is the use the hell out of it and the old tools have been used and are still here working.
edin508
NES Member
You guys want to bash Sears? I for one will continue to shop there, they are one of the few that take care of our military boys and girls. Here is a good read about them.
I took this from Snopes..
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/sears.asp
http://www.searsholdings.com/communityrelations/hero/military.htm
I took this from Snopes..
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/sears.asp
http://www.searsholdings.com/communityrelations/hero/military.htm
I have various old tools that I've inherited. They're mostly old combination wrenches and sockets of various brands. Some of them are good but what I find on most is that they weren't cut as well as the newer stuff, so they don't grab the bolt/nut as well and tend to round things off.
The quality of manufactured goods has gotten a lot better in many cases. Look at cars. Were they better in the 50s through 70s? NFW. Guns? Same deal.
F
Finalygotabeltfed
Yes, in many cases but you picked the two examples that don't meet the criteria. 1950's cars are way better built than the new beer can thin pieces of shit made today with their unserviceable pieces of shit computers that you need $10,000 dollar devices to diagnose things.
Guns made back in the middle of the 20th century were/are also superior to most made today......out of plastics.
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I agree tolerances are better but newer sockets, ratchets, screwdrivers etc are breaking, stripping out or bending...nothing is more aggravating in tools when ratchet teeth let go
I respectfully call bullshit.
A typical car of the 50s was lucky to last 100k miles before needing an engine rebuild and all of them would have rusted heavily by much less than that. Any car made now can go 200k if properly maintained. The complaints about computers are a red herring since they rarely need fixing.
Similarly, with guns, newer ones will shoot many more rounds and in the case of semi autos, actually work consistently. Even with a revolver, as an example, a typical .357 Mag S&W can actually shoot .357s consistently without falling apart. That's not the case with an old 66.
Gidge
NES Member
Welcome to the global economy. Globalists will sell you out in a heartbeat and sell us cheap crap from Asia.
Recently I've been buying old rusty made in USA tools from yardsales and refinishing them using electrolysis, YMMV.
3 huskie rachets striped out in less than 6 months, I call junk.
As far as I know Sear craftsman ratchets and sockets carried a lifetime warranty.
A few years ago, one of my sockets cracked. This was purchased circa 1970. I went to Sears and they replaced it free.
A few years ago, one of my sockets cracked. This was purchased circa 1970. I went to Sears and they replaced it free.
i've got a ratchet set years old (husky) still going strong, i've even run it over with my car (whoops).
Scarecrow
Army Veteran
I just got a brand new 200+ Craftsman tool set from Sears a year ago, it has served me well. The only issue I've had so far was shattering the internals of the 3/8 ratchet thanks to liberal use of a cheater bar(because I'm an idiot). Went to Sears and had a replacement in my hand without questions asked, and bought myself a breaker bar as well. Craftsman may have declined in quality, but a no-questions-asked lifetime warranty coupled with decent prices makes it a no-brainer in my book. My father has 3 or 4 tool boxes full of craftsman tools that he has from finding tools on the side of the road and taking them in for the replacement. Been using them for years, and he's a certified engine mechanic for everything short of jet engines.
Husky is alright, but I had a phillips #2 screwdriver made by Husky that spun in it's handle fresh out of the box... no thanks. If the slines on the shaft cannot even hold it stationary in the handle under normal hand pressure, why the hell did they put a 3/8 drive hole in the handle for torquing down on reluctant screws?
...and to JohnD : I'd put most any car from the 1950's-1960's against any of the new cars today. 1976 Dodge something-or-other my buddy had in Georgia had 475,000 on it and still had the original transmission and engine... my 2000 Chevy Metro made it to 120,000 before the drive shaft snapped in half and I ended up doing 70 MPH, facing the wrong direction on I95S in North Carolina...bet ya I would have been better off with something older and better built.
Husky is alright, but I had a phillips #2 screwdriver made by Husky that spun in it's handle fresh out of the box... no thanks. If the slines on the shaft cannot even hold it stationary in the handle under normal hand pressure, why the hell did they put a 3/8 drive hole in the handle for torquing down on reluctant screws?
...and to JohnD : I'd put most any car from the 1950's-1960's against any of the new cars today. 1976 Dodge something-or-other my buddy had in Georgia had 475,000 on it and still had the original transmission and engine... my 2000 Chevy Metro made it to 120,000 before the drive shaft snapped in half and I ended up doing 70 MPH, facing the wrong direction on I95S in North Carolina...bet ya I would have been better off with something older and better built.
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
I believe that DeWalt is made by Black & Decker - they couldn't break into the professional segment of the market because Black & Decker was more known for homeowner quality stuff. So they started the DeWalt name.
I seem to remember getting handed a rebuild kit by an SK dealer back in the early 80's when one I inherited from my father got some water in it and rusted.
That really sucks to hear. I have SK sockets and socket wrenches that are older than I am - inherited them from my father, in several cases.
BTW... I have a couple of sets of combination wrenches that I bought in 1979 while I was working for an auto parts store. Made in India, no-name brand of "Great Neck". I've used them on and off for the last 30+ years and they've never failed at all - they still are in great shape, no stripping or bending. And I do use them hard when I need to. Sometimes you just luck out...
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i have a 56 ford f100 that is getting a full off frame resto, I rebuilt the original engine and the trans is fine....its just rings and seals that needed replacement after 100k because they did not have the technology for fine tolerance that make engines run more true. Old cars are built great but differently and will outlast never cars in the body side
DeWalt is just a brand name owned by B&D. Similarly, Bosch owns Skil and uses them as the consumer brand and Ryobi/Milwaukee, etc. Don't read too much into the brands being made by the same parent though. They're all built to a price, just like a VW Golf is not built like an Audi R8.
Similarly, and this is old, but you can bet that a given corporate parent is making multiple brands.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-2228.html
If you want a very nice screwdriver, get one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/Williams-WRS-...F8&qid=1357147044&sr=8-4&keywords=jh+williams
Craftsman has always been in a weird segment of the market, above crappy imported tools but below truck tool (Snap-on, MAC, Matco) quality/price. Craftsman must compete, and it doesn't seem like enough people are "voting with their wallets" for them to care about making only US made tools.
USA made craftsman tools are still available, all ratchets sold in mechanics sets are US made, the ratchets sold by themselves are made in China/Taiwan. The 36tooth teardrop standard craftsman ratchet has always been a sloppy low end ratchet, even the US made ones. I have new models of the craftsmand 1/2" drive teardrops, the china made one actually has better fit and finish. I prefer the craftsman ratchets due to growing up using them but the feel of a Snap-on dual 80 tooth shows how truly crappy they are. I have a set of Balco 80 tooth ratchets (Snap-on OEM's these) that get light use even though my inner tool nerd says they are better.
USA made craftsman tools are still available, all ratchets sold in mechanics sets are US made, the ratchets sold by themselves are made in China/Taiwan. The 36tooth teardrop standard craftsman ratchet has always been a sloppy low end ratchet, even the US made ones. I have new models of the craftsmand 1/2" drive teardrops, the china made one actually has better fit and finish. I prefer the craftsman ratchets due to growing up using them but the feel of a Snap-on dual 80 tooth shows how truly crappy they are. I have a set of Balco 80 tooth ratchets (Snap-on OEM's these) that get light use even though my inner tool nerd says they are better.
I had the worst luck with HF taps and dies, they are total crap, in fact so much that you can just look at it and see that it will cut shit. May be I got a bad set, but some taps are completely out of spec, like the ****ing diameter is wrong.
Sears is the only place where I can buy taps/dies that actually cut shit and I can get them now, not waiting for shipping, because you only need them at the worst possible time![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Most of my tools are Craftsman or whatever "rusty gold" I can get on the last hours at the flea market.
I do still buy from HF when I need a piece of steel and don't have it in scrap heap, so I get a HF hammer and just cut a piece out of it. To tell you the truth, $5 for that piece of shit "steel" is a total ripoff.
Sears is the only place where I can buy taps/dies that actually cut shit and I can get them now, not waiting for shipping, because you only need them at the worst possible time
Most of my tools are Craftsman or whatever "rusty gold" I can get on the last hours at the flea market.
I do still buy from HF when I need a piece of steel and don't have it in scrap heap, so I get a HF hammer and just cut a piece out of it. To tell you the truth, $5 for that piece of shit "steel" is a total ripoff.
You sure about that? Here's a comparison.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/Compare?...482000P&partNumber_2=00944996000P&prodCount=2
These are the top of the line and the next one down. The top model is made in the US and says "guaranteed forever". The next one down says nothing about a guarantee or where it's made. If I go and look at the mechanics sets, all have the low end teardrop ratchet.
At one time, Husky and Craftsman were made by major manufacturers in the US to the same standards at the big names- at least for longevity and use, they may not have been as nicely polished. But over time, they have shifted to Chinese shit manufacturers. I have some nice Husky tools, made in the US and properly forged from about 30 years ago. Go into HD today and every Husky package says "made in China". I know cause I was there 4 hours ago looking at packages. One of them said, "Made in Taiwan". It doubt it matters much.
For $30 you can get a 1960's SK Wayne Socket set on eBay with all the do-dads and attachments. It will outlast all of your descendants. I buy old tools cheap all the time just for giggles and give them away as gifts. The people I give them to are always impressed with the heft and quality. Then I tell them I paid $10.
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Look for an odd letter, out of place, on your dads tools. That will indicate who actually made it for Craftsman. I don't think they mark them that way anymore.
For $30 you can get a 1960's SK Wayne Socket set on eBay with all the do-dads and attachments. It will outlast all of your descendants. I buy old tools cheap all the time just for giggles and give them away as gifts. The people I give them to are always impressed with the heft and quality. Then I tell them I paid $10.
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Look for an odd letter, out of place, on your dads tools. That will indicate who actually made it for Craftsman. I don't think they mark them that way anymore.
Yes, all mechanics tool sets have "Made in the USA" badges/stickers and all their contents are US made. When you buy a single ratchet from off the shelf it will be a Chinese wrench (Unless you got lucky and its old stock).
The ratchets you posted are different from the standard or as you call them "low end" teardrop ones. The "low end teardrop" also carries a lifetime warranty, regardless of country of origin. The "next one down" is the slimline ratchet, they are US and China made depending on if you got it in a set or as the ratchet only. They are also covered under the craftsman lifetime warranty regardless of country of origin. The Craftsman professional ratchets like the rest of the professional line are all US made.
All the mechanics I know (mechanics not auto technicians) use snap on tools. They say they cost more but the higher quality is worth it. The T-handle socket wrenches are particularly nice to avoid shearing off bolt heads on a '66 buick boat, er car.
Snap on is great have a bunch. Expensive but you get what you pay for.
scatter
NES Member
Expensive? Try mind-boggling expensive. I've got a bunch of them I bought from the Snap-on van when I was working in my dad's shop in high school (that's, well, something over three decades ago). They were pretty reasonable back then and the van came around every week. You could just shop on your break and debit your paycheck for whatever you wanted. Way too easy, which is why I have so many.
The quality is off the scale but I can't bring myself to buy replacements for the ones I've lost (or more likely, have walked away).
I've also got some polished Craftsman sets from about 20 years ago. They're not quite as good as the Snap-ons, but they were close back then.
used to work for sears, just like every other large company cheap out on lower quality products and treat employees like dirt. I myself have kobalt tools (made in Taiwan) they are very sturdy and durable not bad tools. But I find craftsman products as a whole a junky.
