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Women allowed in the Infantry now.....
- Thread starter 11bway2b
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![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
beaker
NES Member
Nothing good can come of this. It is more pandering to the far left, so for a few more votes, his majesty is willing to sacrifice the readiness of our military. Doesn't surprise me a bit. At least they provided a way for combat units to get exemptions, their way of giving everyone what they want, while maintaining the status quo.
I have always maintained that if a woman can pass the SAME exact standard and do everything just like their male counterparts let them have at. While I know most women could not. At least the women I served with. There was 1 MP in Berlin that I have no doubt she could have, but that is few and far between. As others have said what could possibly go wrong.... I can see alot. Glad I am not in.
There's a difference between "women in infantry units" and "women in the infantry." As I read it, Panetta's just telling the army to go ahead and assign qualified women to infantry units at levels below brigade. Like, as a Battalion S-2 for 2-505 PIR (an intel officer's position) rather than as a Brigade S-2 for 505 PIR (which was already allowed). It says nothing about opening up the 11 series to women, and I doubt that's what the Army is looking to do anytime soon.
We deployed in '99 with two women as part of our 82d Airborne task force. One was a tiny little thing in our division MP slice, the other was a brutish hulk of an ammo specialist from some unit in Germany. The MP was very competent, did her job well, was already respected by her MP peers, and fit in just fine; everyone saw her as just another paratrooper. We really didn't notice her after a short while; it got so that everyone was using a common latrine with no issues. She'd have done a fine job assigned to our unit, no matter what her MOS. The ammo specialist was a sleazy idiot with the clear objective of screwing our sergeants. She didn't last long.
It's important to judge any soldier, male or female, on their merits. There are plenty of piss-poor male infantrymen out there, too.
We deployed in '99 with two women as part of our 82d Airborne task force. One was a tiny little thing in our division MP slice, the other was a brutish hulk of an ammo specialist from some unit in Germany. The MP was very competent, did her job well, was already respected by her MP peers, and fit in just fine; everyone saw her as just another paratrooper. We really didn't notice her after a short while; it got so that everyone was using a common latrine with no issues. She'd have done a fine job assigned to our unit, no matter what her MOS. The ammo specialist was a sleazy idiot with the clear objective of screwing our sergeants. She didn't last long.
It's important to judge any soldier, male or female, on their merits. There are plenty of piss-poor male infantrymen out there, too.
I say let em have any damn job they want!
Let em try Infantry...Ranger School.....and BUDS.....
But no special treatment just because they are female.
Until you give a woman a mans job, she will never know how hard that job is.
And the losers can go back to making coffee and sandwiches!
Let em try Infantry...Ranger School.....and BUDS.....
But no special treatment just because they are female.
Until you give a woman a mans job, she will never know how hard that job is.
And the losers can go back to making coffee and sandwiches!
There's no guarantee a male soldier could do that, either. If it's "the biggest guy in their platoon," it's unlikely there'd be many others of either gender who could haul him any distance at all, single-handed. That's why soldiers have to know more than just the fireman's carry; there are plenty of two-man carries that get practiced each morning at PT, armywide. Just saying...
Until they are held to the same standards as men it really doesn't matter and this is nothing more than political bullshit.
Just like Airborne school,women will have a different set of physical requirements to meet than men do to pass.
It's a damn joke.
So now Benning will have to accommodate for butches and give them separate barracks,separate latrines and a different set of rules to go by.I'm sure they will also fast track some female 11B's to Platoon Sgt for a great photo op.
This country is toast.
It's a damn joke.
So now Benning will have to accommodate for butches and give them separate barracks,separate latrines and a different set of rules to go by.I'm sure they will also fast track some female 11B's to Platoon Sgt for a great photo op.
This country is toast.
I don't disagree, but I was in the military for seven years and I don't recall any man being required to fireman's carry the platoon's largest member 50 meters up a hill. That's hardly the "standard." That was my only point. Bottom line is that nobody's opened Ranger School to women yet; the sky hasn't fallen, and neither the Army nor the Marines need to change anything at all until 2016. So we can all take a step back.
I think Panetta's just saying there are already some jobs in maneuver battalions that could be done just as well by women, and who's to say he's wrong? My experience is that there probably are, though it's been awhile since I was in.
When I did advanced infantry training at Fort Polk, yes 42+ years ago, we practiced the firemans carry, in 25 yard races, with 6 paired off guys, it wasn't usually a dead lift off the ground thank God...but you got your guy on your back, Drill Sgt says GO, and you sprint to see who wins. Army P.T. Has surely improved since then, you get sneakers to run in and not your field boots. My point is, you see who you can have confidence in, and yes there was a range of heMan to average just pass your PT test size of strength in the guys, and I was a tall skinny just passed the PT test guy. But the Drill Sgt's put the responsibility on the individual to get it done, to carry your buddy, you do it. Soo, that's my memory, you either do it or you don't. Girls you either do it like the guys do or if you can't, bye bye, you don't survive the cut.
More tax money wasted to weed out all the failures for the few rare exceptions.
As I remember Lawton and Ft. Sill your right.
But no women I have ever known would or could have dealt with the smell and the taste in the air ten days into it. This is another lowering of the ability of troops and reducing the effective combat ability of the USA. IED's are one very bad thing but to rub up against an NVA division for a few weeks is another. Some one isn't listening to the girls who were captured and rapped or the in Iraq. Look at the IDF in the early days what was done to the captured women. Look what today's enemy does to captured men. This is wrong. MY .02
...MJ...
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They'd be a blast to see in the Legion. Raid march at the end of bootcamp is 100 miles in 3 days. Punches in the jar if you slow down or fall behind too far. No sleep between day 2 and 3. MREs for the last 4 weeks of training. 25+ Kilo in the rucksack. Yeah, I'm sure there'd be plenty of gals who could keep up.
And let the widespread sexual assault allegations begin in 3...2...1...
Ah yes, but you had the bordel militaire de campagne in the Legion until the 1990's. Anywhere the Legion went, the women went including the front lines. I understand that some of the women served gallantly (and I don't mean in their primary MOS) at the siege of Dien Bien Phu. Unfortunately as I understand it, many were captured and sent to "reeducation centers" by the Viet Minh.
Wait a minute! Are you telling me that they have different physical requirements for women in Jump School?
Damn, that would really piss me off.
The one thing I remember about Jump School was how fair it was, even the officers had to pass the same shit!
Everyday I hear shit like this, and it makes it easier getting old....because who would want to live anymore in a world this phucked up!
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Besides everything else that has been mentioned..
Hmm, lets' see. Either the APFT will be the same standard for both men and women at the current male level, or it is going to be lowered somewhere between the two standards as a compromise. I'd love to see any female as a m249 gunner, m240 gunner or an AG humping the mountains of Afghanistan. How is it going to look when there are female team leaders and squad leaders and the lowest ranking male private can out perform the them both physically and tactically in basic infantry tasks? I'm sure previous deployers with multiple tours are going to listen to **** all of what said female has to say. What happens when a female is getting the dog shit smoked out of here for screwing up and she is rolling around in the dirt puking her uterus out? Will there be different disipline standards? Segregated platoons? Yeah, NOTHING bad can come from this.
As what was already mentioned, I can see unit commanders placing the new female 11B privates behind a desk and never seeing a line platoon. We do the same thing with the males who can't hack it.
Hmm, lets' see. Either the APFT will be the same standard for both men and women at the current male level, or it is going to be lowered somewhere between the two standards as a compromise. I'd love to see any female as a m249 gunner, m240 gunner or an AG humping the mountains of Afghanistan. How is it going to look when there are female team leaders and squad leaders and the lowest ranking male private can out perform the them both physically and tactically in basic infantry tasks? I'm sure previous deployers with multiple tours are going to listen to **** all of what said female has to say. What happens when a female is getting the dog shit smoked out of here for screwing up and she is rolling around in the dirt puking her uterus out? Will there be different disipline standards? Segregated platoons? Yeah, NOTHING bad can come from this.
As what was already mentioned, I can see unit commanders placing the new female 11B privates behind a desk and never seeing a line platoon. We do the same thing with the males who can't hack it.
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Awesome. Let us get a bunch of women soldiers shot, and captured. Human nature says that would reduce our tolerance for playing world cop with soldiers.
It sure as hell isn't "fair" anymore. Officers go to the front of the line for every school and after they make their class size they 41 and out (sit there during push ups and say 41 over and over no matter how many you do) everybody left.
That's the only thing that pisses me off about this, school's were already hard as hell to come by.
Am I the only one that laughed at this?
Yeah, well, I remember some of the ladies from Brazil who "served" in Guyana. At least a place where they were under constant monitoring by the regiment's medical services. But the last time they were called bordel militaire de campagne was in Algeria, until the end of the 60ies. The legion got away with it only because we don't have time limits on our deployments.
Ya,they do pushups on their knees and I don't think they have to do chinups..Probably relaxed the requirements years ago when no women were getting wings.
DemonChronicles
NES Member
What a mistake.![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
Here is how I would do it if I were boss...
Individual women can physically hack it, but they are few and far between. At the same time, women are needed for FET on the modern battlefield. Breaking your back to accomadate 1-2 women for every hundred men is a pointless waste of money and resources. Women in such small numbers also get shit on as far as sexual harassment and assault goes in the units where they are already present in small number.
Knowing this, I would say they should have a couple companies of female grunts throughout the military, that get fapped out in platoon or at the least squad size groups to where they are needed for female engagement. That way, you never have ones and twos of women amongst hundreds of men. Also, send them with a staff NCO or officer to keep harassment/assault from happening. This will allow for the military to have Female Engagement Teams competent in infantry skills and always brushed up on infantry skills (IE not a burden to their host platoons/companies), while at the same time minimizing the problem of accommodation and harassment.
There is a very defined role for females in the Infantry, but making huge sacrifices to get one or two in amongst hundreds to be "equal opportunity" is stupid... Alas that is probably what they are going to do because politicians are retarded.
It really sucks because there is a "right way" to pull this off which would really benefit everyone.
Mike
Individual women can physically hack it, but they are few and far between. At the same time, women are needed for FET on the modern battlefield. Breaking your back to accomadate 1-2 women for every hundred men is a pointless waste of money and resources. Women in such small numbers also get shit on as far as sexual harassment and assault goes in the units where they are already present in small number.
Knowing this, I would say they should have a couple companies of female grunts throughout the military, that get fapped out in platoon or at the least squad size groups to where they are needed for female engagement. That way, you never have ones and twos of women amongst hundreds of men. Also, send them with a staff NCO or officer to keep harassment/assault from happening. This will allow for the military to have Female Engagement Teams competent in infantry skills and always brushed up on infantry skills (IE not a burden to their host platoons/companies), while at the same time minimizing the problem of accommodation and harassment.
There is a very defined role for females in the Infantry, but making huge sacrifices to get one or two in amongst hundreds to be "equal opportunity" is stupid... Alas that is probably what they are going to do because politicians are retarded.
It really sucks because there is a "right way" to pull this off which would really benefit everyone.
Mike
