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Woman dead, 3 Somerville officers stabbed in domestic incident
- Thread starter buketduder
- Start date
What do you want them to try? Negotiate with a known crazy person? It's futile to try and reason with someone that's nuts.
You don't think those cops thought about options other than "let's go in there and try not to get stabbed"?
Seriously, what are these other options you want to discuss?
MaroonedinMA
NES Member
I'm not judging the officers involved as I wasn't there. But, with all the overuse of tasers we see against non-violent individuals, wouldn't this have been the ideal use of one? I mean, taser the fruitloot the moment you lay eyes on the knife. Again there may have been reasons why that wasn't the appropriate route, but it does seem like that's what they were made for.
MaroonedinMA
NES Member
Huh...I didn't know they weren't ubiquitous.
Also after reading everything, I don't begrudge the cops one bit. If tasers were available, I would've like to see them deployed before any of them got shivved with a shank or shanked with a shiv.
OC I think probably would've only escalated the situation.
You know what cools things down? Guns.
OC I think probably would've only escalated the situation.
You know what cools things down? Guns.
She stabbed three of them. It was absolutely justified. I'm having a hard time seeing how on earth this wasn't an appropriate use of force. She stabbed three of them.
Unless you're maybe an eye-for-an-eye kind of person, and think they should have stabbed her back?
Unless you're maybe an eye-for-an-eye kind of person, and think they should have stabbed her back?
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Yup.... they had to kill her. You ever hear of the rule of 21 feet? How big do you think a bathroom is in an apartment in Somerville???
You watch to much TV.... you do not use less than deadly force in response to deadly force.
Just to be clear, I think it is evident that you have no training and/or experience with use of force issues.
It was three of "us" citizens.
LenS tried to explain the type of scenario that may have gone down. But you chose to respond only to his statement that you have never had to respond to a domestic.
Your best answer would have been a simple and honest, "no," without the added pity party, "Guess that means I don't count, right?" You then introduce a specious argument citing governors and baseball players.
What part of she stabbed three police officers don't you get? What part of she used a knife with deadly force don't you get? When are baseball players and governors required to risk their lives by entering the dwelling of a crazy lady with a knife in her hand and an obvious desire to kill?
It is my opinion that you didn't respond to the rest of LenS' post because it makes sense to you, but you don't like the answer because you "want" to believe that the cops were in the wrong.
Three police officers, three men who probably have wives and children waiting for them to come home were stabbed. How many more needed to be stabbed before you consider their act of self defense to be justified? Should one of them have died first?
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
It would seem so.
I was looking to discuss if there was another way this could have gone down. But thanks for all the condescending replies, they were great. I know critical thinking is dead, so I am not at all surprised. AGAIN, I get what the consensus is from this thread. Just thought maybe there could have been a better way to go about it BEFORE they got stabbed. How dare I question authority right?
Whenever anybody uses open hand defense against a knife, they are getting cut. Period. And a knife makes a wound that is far worse than a gunshot.
A tazer? Didn't work on Rodney King, may or may not have worked here. It's not the end all of all fights. Plus, people have been dying from tazers, even after the fact. You're interupting their heartbeat rythm-can't be good for you.
Crazy people seem to have super human strength. Try fighting one in a small confined area, in the summer heat, and you'll know what a real fight is. You can employ all the super-duper, Kraga Maga, whatever moves, and they are probably not going to work. At all.
Against a knife, the only sure thing is a firearm, from as far away as possible. Up close, when you are suprised by someone with a blade, you'll have to try to bundle him/her, but you will get hurt. All the armchair commandos in the world will try to tell you different, or tell how they'd disarm someone with a knife, but they are full of it. They talk a lot, but I've been there and seen it. It's not a pretty thing, but it's not a pretty world.
A tazer? Didn't work on Rodney King, may or may not have worked here. It's not the end all of all fights. Plus, people have been dying from tazers, even after the fact. You're interupting their heartbeat rythm-can't be good for you.
Crazy people seem to have super human strength. Try fighting one in a small confined area, in the summer heat, and you'll know what a real fight is. You can employ all the super-duper, Kraga Maga, whatever moves, and they are probably not going to work. At all.
Against a knife, the only sure thing is a firearm, from as far away as possible. Up close, when you are suprised by someone with a blade, you'll have to try to bundle him/her, but you will get hurt. All the armchair commandos in the world will try to tell you different, or tell how they'd disarm someone with a knife, but they are full of it. They talk a lot, but I've been there and seen it. It's not a pretty thing, but it's not a pretty world.
It would seem that they tried to use another way before it went down. They got stabbed trying. If they went in guns blazing, like you seem to be suggesting, than they probably wouldn't have been stabbed.
I just don't feel that because I never tried to disarm a crazy lady I am not allowed an opinion. There is not need to look further into that statement. I am not saying I know everything and have all the answers (like some) I was just looking to discuss. From the replies, nobody seems to think a situation like this can be better resolved in the future; and that is fine. AGAIN, I was just wanted to see if MAYBE there could have been a better way.
I'm sure that if they had prior knowledge they were going to be stabbed, they would have coaxed her out with an ice cream cone.
Critical thinking is not dead. You were provided with many thoughtful answers. However, it appears that your "feeelings" have priority over your "critical thinking" skills.
Thanks for the insight Kelly. If that is the case then there is nothing else they could have done.
There is some great insight in this thread. But I still think critical thinking is dead, not only in cases like this but overall. As far as my skills on the subject of critical thinking, I think you need a bigger sample of my thoughts on issues before you assume my feelings take priority. Seems only fair right?
Has anyone here stopped you from expressing your opinion?
Then perhaps you should have phrased your question and responses in that vein.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
OK, this is turning into an attack on me and there is next to no talk about what happened. Thanks for the insight to those who provided it and sorry for bringing a different view to the situation. I am sure you will be happy to hear it will not happen again on here.
Mass-diver
NES Member
The big mistake (from what I have heard) is that she was released from the psych hospital earlier that night. The cops did the right thing, they arrested her, but instead of jail, they sent her for a psych eval and then all of sudden she's right back out there.......
Ok, I'll give you that. Either way, all I can gather from this story is that they used all the tools and skills that were available to them to try and resolve this without turning to guns, and they got stabbed for it, but not having been there myself, all I can say from the available info is "good shoot".
I live next to and know several Somerville cops and what I was told,she did got nuts when they were there,stabbed the first in the upper chest then another in the arm and the third tried to stop her and stabbed him though the hand.I dont believe he was holding a gun at the time then one shot her since she just kept comming.In this situation the only ones that knew how to react is them.I'm glad that all three will be fine and they didn't have to report a cop being killed instead.I know nobody that would want to be put in that situation,but if it were you would you shoot?
Makes me happy!
Tasers were made illegal for LEO use in MA back in the 1980s, due to improper use by a PO (knee-jerk reaction). When the MGL was passed allowing LEO use of Tasers a few years ago, they threw so much admin crap into the law that most towns can't afford to deploy them.
Ref: MGL C. 140 S. 131J [I'm sure there is an onerous CMR to go with it, but I don't have a reference to it.]
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