Which One Is Better For Long Range Shooting

[Lip]

Zombies ‍ duh

Zombies, hell my high point.....oops or my saiga 12 with a loose stock..

 

[Sweeney]

Guess im not up on the proper saying. What should I call a legitimate cloverleaf at 200 yards?

A trifolium.

 

[Mike S]

also what are you shooting at and do you hand load?

As for the above three rifles buy which ever one fits you best and feels comfortable and leaves funds for a scope.

For caliber:

The 6.5 creedmore is much flatter shooting than 308. (But then 6mm Creedmore is even flatter than 6.5)

If you don’t hand load then I will say the Hornady in 6.5CM is most accurate and reasonably priced factory ammo I have ever shot in both match and hunting bullets.

300 yards and under 6, 6.5, or 308 doesn’t matter

300 to 500. If shooting deer, 308 is better in my opinion. (Assuming you can hit target with either one I like the bigger hole and retained energy). Varmints or Targets not much difference either caliber

Over 500. I don’t shoot game over 500.( Just my choice and even then conditions need to be right for me to go to 500) But for targets you can compensate for drop on either caliber but wind drift is the bigger issue. The lower wind drift of 6.5 makes it better choice than 308. From 400 yards out my wind drift error usually exceeds my elevation error. From a bench or prone my misses are usually mis read of wind.

Shooting off a barricade or obstacle I have found all kinds of ways to miss that have nothing to do with rifle or caliber or windage or elevation.

This.

OP, read above, this is what you need to figure out, what is the max distance you are going to be shooting at, and how (bench, prone, etc). Once you know that you can make a better educated decision on which rifle/caliber to purchase.

Also, I'm a big fan of the Rem 700, they also make a chassis rifle with a magpul adjustable stock that looks fantastic. I have not shot it though, but every Remington 700 I've ever owned has been a half minute gun at 300 plus yards.

 

[Admin]

Mossberg = crap

 

[mac1911]

A better round for what kind of hunting I want to be able to take deer moose and man if needed.

Plus in my opinion 6.5 creed and 6 creed are good for long range paper and a more of a fad.

I look at it as the USMC uses 308 and 300 Win Mag for snipers trusted and proven.

Interested in a 300 rem Ultra mag to build off of?

 

[GLOCK-22]

You REALLY don't like clicking links, do you?

The first paragraph states:



(the only advantage is if you plink with cheap fmj ammo which exists in .308. If you're only shooting quality hunting or target ammo, there is NO advantage to .308. )

.MIL is replacing all their .308's with 6.5CM (read the damned article!)

and with regards to hunting:

Yes I read the article and even though I really think the 6.5 is good to 1000 yards I dont think it does the same killing after 1000 yards that a 308 can do

But the main reason for me not to go to 6.5 is I have a HK 91 and a AR 10 and want to stay with the 308 round and not have another caliber to deal with.

 

[GLOCK-22]

Also, I'm a big fan of the Rem 700, they also make a chassis rifle with a magpul adjustable stock that looks fantastic. I have not shot it though, but every Remington 700 I've ever owned has been a half minute gun at 300 plus yards.

I don't like the new Remington stuff since freedom group owns Remington if its a old Remington 700 then there good and if I go with a 700 I would have to find a good used 700 and i would then buy one and put it in to a chassis system to.

 

[mac1911]

A better round for what kind of hunting I want to be able to take deer moose and man if sh!t hit the fan.

Plus in my opinion 6.5 creed and 6 creed are good for long range paper and a more of a fad.

I look at it as the USMC uses 308 and 300 Win Mag for snipers trusted and proven.

You also have to understand that’s what the guys on the ground where told to use.
308 is a good all purpose round for sure.

 

[Dradian]

Out of those options.... I would go either Bergara or Tikka

 

[1776]

The future of "Long Range" or Any Range


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNPJMk2fgJU



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqHrTtvFFIs

 

[mac1911]

Zombies, hell my high point.....oops or my saiga 12 with a loose stock..

And don’t we all know by now that the 10/22 is the only zombie rifle you really need

 

[mac1911]

Yes I read the article and even though I really think the 6.5 is good to 1000 yards I dont think it does the same killing after 1000 yards that a 308 can do

But the main reason for me not to go to 6.5 is I have a HK 91 and a AR 10 and want to stay with the 308 round and not have another caliber to deal with.

What’s the probability of hits beyond 1000 yards 308 vs 264/6.5mm

 

[Mountain]

My recommendation would be the Ruger or Savage. Either will get you at 1 MOA or better with the right ammo. What's your definition of long range? If you have any aspirations to shoot 1000 yards or more, .308 goes subsonic well before 1000 which could kick bullets off their track. I know at least one 1000 yard range that requires ammo that stays supersonic to 1000 yards if you want to shoot the big range. 6.5 Creedmoor is getting quite common as a factory load and it's not difficult to reload with success.

 

[Mountain]

What’s the probability of hits beyond 1000 yards 308 vs 264/6.5mm

Much lower. Lobbing heavy projectiles is supposed to help negate the transonic issues and keep the bullet on path, but at 1000 that's a lot of elevation.

 

[Lip]

And don’t we all know by now that the 10/22 is the only zombie rifle you really need

The survival guide was written by a SNL anti. Suspect what he says.

 

[mac1911]

So I am just tring to figure out which is best for long rang shooting and what one to buy.

Mossberg MVP LC 308
View attachment 265668

Ruger Precision 308
View attachment 265671

Savage 10 BA Stealth
View attachment 265672

Let me know what one and why thanks.

What are you going to run for ammo
Over all, NATO, factory stuff, handoads

 

[milktree]

What is sub MOA at 200 yards? MOA is not distance dependent. You mean to say it's sub MOA or Sub 2" at 200 yards. Or sub 1" at 100 yards. Or 3 at 3 etc. hate to be that guy but I keep seeing this and it doesn't make sense

That's called good shootin'

Sorry pet peeve of mine. MOA or minute of angle doesn't require a distance to be understood. It's an angular measurement. 1" at 200 would equate to about .5 MOA.

You’re right about the math, but kinda missing the rest of the factors.

A rifle/ammo combination that can shoot .5MOA at 100 yards can’t necessarily do it at 500 yards.

For example: a .22 LR match rifle might be able to reliably make a single hole at 50 Yards, but at 200 it’s a 10" splatter.

Some rifle/ammo combinations actually make smaller MOA groups at longer ranges than at shorter. Yes, I know that sounds crazy. It has to do with gyroscopic precession and the bullet “settling down” after some distance.

And of course if the bullet goes transonic the accuracy goes to hell.

Distance does matter.

 

[slap shot]

Savage fan here, but i'm sure the Ruger will lob those softballs just as well. Mossberg, no. They should stick to single stack compact semi auto 9mms. LOL

 

[slap shot]

You’re right about the math, but kinda missing the rest of the factors.

A rifle/ammo combination that can shoot .5MOA at 100 yards can’t necessarily do it at 500 yards.

For example: a .22 LR match rifle might be able to reliably make a single hole at 50 Yards, but at 200 it’s a 10" splatter.

Some rifle/ammo combinations actually make smaller MOA groups at longer ranges than at shorter. Yes, I know that sounds crazy. It has to do with gyroscopic precession and the bullet “settling down” after some distance.

And of course if the bullet goes transonic the accuracy goes to hell.

Distance does matter.

I wasn't here to give the entire explanation, plenty of youtube vids for that, although some of the explanations aren't the best lol. I hope we all realize that over distance other factors come into play, but theoretically, MOA is not a distance dependent measurement.

 

[northny]

But the main reason for me not to go to 6.5 is I have a HK 91 and a AR 10 and want to stay with the 308 round and not have another caliber to deal with.

Smart man. ( yes I assumed your gender, apologies if incorrect). The .308 will have a much longer barrel life also.

If you have any aspirations to shoot 1000 yards or more, .308 goes subsonic well before 1000 which could kick bullets off their track.

Depends on bullet weight and shape. Both factory and my hand loads (2710 FPS) 168 grain BTSP are super sonic past 1000 yards. Just choose wisely.

 

[Dradian]

Barrel life is one of the reasons I prefer 308 over 6.5 cred. As was stated in this thread bullet selection would be key. Hornady ELD or Berger VLD bullets will help extend the 308 quite a bit. I have nothing against 6.5 cred, it is a great round for what it is.

OP, question, is there a specific reason you want 1000 yards? There aren't many ranges in New England with that distance.

 

[Larry Gentile]

Listen, I have been looking for a high quality long range rifle for over a year. The RPR was on top of my list. The more research i did the more I went in a different direction.
To just get into the field I bought a cheap bolt action TC Compass in 6.5 CM for under $300. Sub MOA guarantee (3shot) and pretty good action once broken in. Threaded barrel, and with spring kit and some trigger work the trigger pull is amazing. I'm going to eventually put a Boyds stock on it and this will be my backup hunting rifle. The 6.5CM is plenty powerful enough for deer. 143gr ELDX hollowpoint at 2700 FPS will do the trick.

All that said I really want a higher quality Bolt action. Really the top of my list is this Begara HMR Pro. I do not think you will find a better rifle for the price. Basically a custom built rifle at a great price. If you like the Chassis system Begara makes the LRP and the LRP Elite also.

One of the best buys right now in my opinion is the Howa KRG Bravo. Bull barrel and nice chassis. I was originally going with this but you really get so much more with the Bergara.

 

[M1911]

Yes I read the article and even though I really think the 6.5 is good to 1000 yards I dont think it does the same killing after 1000 yards that a 308 can do.

Why do you think that? At 1000 yards, the 6.5 has way more energy than a .308.

Just because .MIL is using .308 doesn’t mean it is the best round for that purpose.

 

[Dradian]

Listen, I have been looking for a high quality long range rifle for over a year. The RPR was on top of my list. The more research i did the more I went in a different direction.
To just get into the field I bought a cheap bolt action TC Compass in 6.5 CM for under $300. Sub MOA guarantee (3shot) and pretty good action once broken in. Threaded barrel, and with spring kit and some trigger work the trigger pull is amazing. I'm going to eventually put a Boyds stock on it and this will be my backup hunting rifle. The 6.5CM is plenty powerful enough for deer. 143gr ELDX hollowpoint at 2700 FPS will do the trick.

All that said I really want a higher quality Bolt action. Really the top of my list is this Begara HMR Pro. I do not think you will find a better rifle for the price. Basically a custom built rifle at a great price. If you like the Chassis system Begara makes the LRP and the LRP Elite also.

One of the best buys right now in my opinion is the Howa KRG Bravo. Bull barrel and nice chassis. I was originally going with this but you really get so much more with the Bergara.

Completely agree with all of this. The Bergara line is an amazing value for the money.

The TC Compass apparently shoots much better than its price point. Johnny's Reloading Bench on YouTube has some extensive videos with that rifle in 6.5 and some of the groups he has been able to produce are incredible.

 

[hv55maxx]

Yes I read the article and even though I really think the 6.5 is good to 1000 yards I dont think it does the same killing after 1000 yards that a 308 can do

But the main reason for me not to go to 6.5 is I have a HK 91 and a AR 10 and want to stay with the 308 round and not have another caliber to deal with.

open with this in original post next time. makes a huge difference in recommendations that you dont want another caliber.

 

[Mountain]

Smart man. ( yes I assumed your gender, apologies if incorrect). The .308 will have a much longer barrel life also.



Depends on bullet weight and shape. Both factory and my hand loads (2710 FPS) 168 grain BTSP are super sonic past 1000 yards. Just choose wisely.

Yes, but you have to spend the bucks on ELD / VLD projectiles and they have to be loaded 'hot'. Maybe not optimum for someone just getting into this? Just curious what factory loads get you 2710 fps from .308 (edit- with 168 grn projectiles)? That's going to be pretty close to max load for most IMR and Hodgdon powders.

Not being critical- I would actually like to shoot 308 at 1000 if I can get the elevation from the rifles I would shoot. I think ~38 or 39 MOA elevation, so a 20 MOA scope mount would be probably be necessary. I reload, so no issues making what I need.

Paging @mac1911 , how high would my rear iron sight need to be? M1A, Garand, Springfield...

 

[JRT]

Barrel life is one of the reasons I prefer 308 over 6.5 cred. As was stated in this thread bullet selection would be key. Hornady ELD or Berger VLD bullets will help extend the 308 quite a bit. I have nothing against 6.5 cred, it is a great round for what it is.

OP, question, is there a specific reason you want 1000 yards? There aren't many ranges in New England with that distance.

I’ve never understood barrel life as a reason to buy a precision rifle. People act like barrels are forged of Valyrian steel by Elves. A good quality replacement barrel can be purchased for $500 to $900 dollars and I can change it out in 30 minutes. Even on the low end of life, let’s say 2500 rounds through a 6.5 barrel that’s 2 to 3 years of life for even the most prolific shooter.

The answer to your question is build your own precision rifle at that price point. If you step up your budget to just 3k you can buy a very good off the shelf precision rifle. Oh, build or buy in 6.5CM.

 

[JRT]

Why do you think that? At 1000 yards, the 6.5 has way more energy than a .308.

Just because .MIL is using .308 doesn’t mean it is the best round for that purpose.

A common and enduring myth. Why do people think .MIL makes good decisions?

 

[Dradian]

I’ve never understood barrel life as a reason to buy a precision rifle. People act like barrels are forged of Valyrian steel by Elves. A good quality replacement barrel can be purchased for $500 to $900 dollars and I can change it out in 30 minutes. Even on the low end of life, let’s say 2500 rounds through a 6.5 barrel that’s 2 to 3 years of life for even the most prolific shooter.

The answer to your question is build your own precision rifle at that price point. If you step up your budget to just 3k you can buy a very good off the shelf precision rifle. Oh, hold or buy in 6.5CM.

Barrel life matters more to some people than others(some people shoot more than others). Nothing wrong with that.

For me? 3x the barrel life in a 308 is worth it. If I was shooting past 1000 yards on a regular basis, then I think 6.5 creedmore is the way to go(mostly due to BC), but I would accept that reduced barrel life is part of the price of admission.

 

[milktree]

I wasn't here to give the entire explanation, plenty of youtube vids for that, although some of the explanations aren't the best lol. I hope we all realize that over distance other factors come into play, but theoretically, MOA is not a distance dependent measurement.

Right, but you must have heard the phrase: "The difference between theory and practice is bigger in practice than it is in theory."

I have the RPR in 308 and the Savage Stealth in 6.5cm. I’m not sure what problems some are having with these as both of my rifles shoot sub MOA at 200 yards.

He's talking about actual rifles in in actual real life, or practice, not the math of what a minute of angle is.

The fact that he can get sub MOA groups at 200 yards is absolutely relevant, but it's not *all* the data. Does it do sub MOA at 600Y? 1,000Y? 50Y?