Where does MA law state 'concealed' carry?

[Coyote33]

I don't know if I would be comfortable OCing in Worcester, could you share you OC carrying experiences in Worcester?
You lived in Worcester correct?

I've seen it done, at a breakfast joint owned by a cop. Nobody gave a crap. The guy was scouting deer hunting spots, and brought a .22 in case he saw any squirrels.

 

[brtt485]

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131

MA laws states a Class B does not allow for the carrying of a concealed firearm. For class A it doesn't state it is illegal to carry it concealed so it is allowed. Like was stated law mostly tells us what we can't do. If it is restricted then it is legal.

(a) A Class A license shall entitle a holder thereof to purchase, rent, lease, borrow, possess and carry: (i) firearms, including large capacity firearms, and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes, subject to such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of firearms as the licensing authority deems proper; and.......

(b) A Class B license shall entitle a holder thereof to purchase, rent, lease, borrow, possess and carry: (i) non-large capacity firearms and feeding devices and ammunition therefor, for all lawful purposes, subject to such restrictions relative to the possession, use or carrying of such firearm as the licensing authority deems proper; provided, however, that a Class B license shall not entitle the holder thereof to carry or possess a loaded firearm in a concealed manner in any public way or place;

I am familiar with the laws and what is allowed. I am also very aware that open carry in MA is not a good idea, at all. I guess I was just a little surprised that it wasn't explicitly stated that concealed carry is allowed with an unrestricted Class A LTC. That's all. I would have thought that the disctinction between concealed carry being allowed or not allowed is one the law makers would want very clear. I do get that the law doesnt say that it IS NOT allowed so you can infer that it IS allowed but again, just something I thought they would want to specifically address.

I appreciate all of the information.

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I think you're friend's cop buddy is f-ing with him. While I've seen and heard some pretty outrageously false information coming from LEOs about gun laws, this is so far off base as to be (almost) funny. How is it that this cop has never encounter someone carrying? On the off case this cop IS serious, he need to get reeducated before he does something that drags him and his employer into federal court.

Seriously! If he was serious, which I do think is the case, it certainly doesn't give you a warm and fuzzy feeling about dealing with LEO's while carrying LEGALLY.

 

[MisterHappy]

One must know the laws.

When my son applied for his FID, first he was told that one must be 18. "I have parental permission," he replied, and got the packet. Then, they tried to get $100, when the law is $25 for a minor's FID. They "agreed" when he had a printout of the relevant statute.

One must know the laws.

 

[qqac]

Actually, LTC-B FORCES you to open carry, as concealed carry is NOT permitted.

Actually, in practice what LTC-B forces you to do is not to carry at all.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Actually, in practice what LTC-B forces you to do is not to carry at all.

The combination of the inability to carry concealed, and the implications of Simkin v. Commonwealth, would make for a very interesting case for an LTC-B holder who chose to open carry.

 

[bigblue]

The combination of the inability to carry concealed, and the implications of Simkin v. Commonwealth, would make for a very interesting case for an LTC-B holder who chose to open carry.

Any volunteers?

 

[sweetjeep]

This may have been covered elsewhere. But is the term "concealed" legally defined? I assume not, and I know i have seen SOMEWHERE that "concealed" is absolutely NOT "hidden". I am just curious if it is called out anywhere.

 

[Len-2A Training]

This may have been covered elsewhere. But is the term "concealed" legally defined? I assume not, and I know i have seen SOMEWHERE that "concealed" is absolutely NOT "hidden". I am just curious if it is called out anywhere.

Never seen a definition, so I guess it is up to each individual police officer!

 

[MisterHappy]

It's constantly defined here on NES

It means concealed

 

[sweetjeep]

It's constantly defined here on NES
It means concealed

Yeah.. I was curious if there was a LEGAL definition. To me 'concealed' would mean if I had a jacket on and a gun on an OWB holster. That's concealed, not hidden. An old-tyme leather holster with the dust flap is absolutely concealed, but everyone "knows" what's on the inside.

I personally prefer to go 'hidden'. And the more hidden the better, but that's just me.

To make a long story short I was at the bank recently with a full size pistol on my belt. At one point it (innocently) ended up on the outside of my clothing. The bank ladies didn't really flinch, but I still wondered this very question at that point.

 

[MisterHappy]

I meant it as a joke, but in Mass: You have a License to Carry Firearms. It is not a Concealed Weapons permit, or any of the other alphabet soup acronyms that get tossed about. There is no mandate that you carry concealed, or prohibition that you may not carry openly.

The current climate of practicality is that open carry in most parts of the Commonwealth is not advisable, due to the possibility of a non-gun person becoming "alarmed" and calling 911 about a man with a gun. While you are within your rights ( and privileges of the LTC), you may be open to a "suitability" issue with your licensing authority.

If you're carrying concealed, and accidentally display your iron, then you should have no problems. But, due to the risk of problems, keeping it covered is generally considered best.

If it's your regular bank, and they know you, and you don't have a bag with a "$" and a black raccoon mask, Id say that there should be no issues.

 

[mikelawtown]

Reading this reminds me of when i was at a car wash shining up my rims and a cop pulls up and says without getting out of the car do you have a License to carry a firearm? I said yea and didnt notice my G17 was clearly out of my t-shirt. I actually said i'm going to with my left hand grab my wallet to show you, He says no need then he said Nice car and drove away. I wouldnt mind carry OWB all the time.

 

[Mesatchornug]

The combination of the inability to carry concealed, and the implications of Simkin v. Commonwealth, would make for a very interesting case for an LTC-B holder who chose to open carry.

Curious how that would go for the holder of a restricted A. Wouldn't be surprised to find that in this one case you're better off with a B.

Sent from this Infernal Machine

 

[Coyote33]

So who else here remembers when it was illegal to conceal a firearm in MA? In other words, you had to keep the butt of the grip/handle sticking out. Otherwise, you'd get in HUGE trouble for "trying to keep something from the police". I remember that as a kid.

 

[OfficerObie59]

Dumbasses trying to reinventing the wheel and be the guy who tells you everything you think you know is wrong just to look like a smart guy.

Don't take your LTC legal advice from:
1) Cops
2) Gun Store Clerks.

 

[OfficerObie59]

Actually, LTC-B FORCES you to open carry, as concealed carry is NOT permitted.

According to the Federal Court, wasn't that Stacey Hightower's available option?

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

According to the Federal Court, wasn't that Stacey Hightower's available option?

It was. And if you pay particularly close attention this is something we take into account in carry cases as both Weymouth and Peabody issue restricted LTC/Bs.

 

[Come and take]

Sad part of the story. Your buddy's friend is a cop telling him this BS.

 

[Volkl78]

Common sense would tell me if you have a license to carry w/no restrictions and open carry is frowned upon by law enforcement how else could you carry if not concealed?

 

[mibro]

Not too long ago I saw a private security guard open-carrying a semi-auto pistol at a gas station. He wasn't working at the gas station, just stopped for gas and walking around.

I went home and Googled open carry and discovered it's legal in Mass. Except for the Catch-22 that if you scare the citizenry, which you will, you lose your LTC-A for unsuitability. But it appears there's a loophole to the Catch-22 - wear some kind of official-looking blue uniform and service belt and the sheeple shall be placated.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

But it appears there's a loophole to the Catch-22 - wear some kind of official-looking blue uniform and service belt and the sheeple shall be placated.

I think the people wearing black T Shits with the block letters SECURITY in post Katrina New Orleans were allowed to keep their guns while the PD took guns from the citizens.

 

[MisterHappy]

Not too long ago I saw a private security guard open-carrying a semi-auto pistol at a gas station. He wasn't working at the gas station, just stopped for gas and walking around.

I went home and Googled open carry and discovered it's legal in Mass. Except for the Catch-22 that if you scare the citizenry, which you will, you lose your LTC-A for unsuitability. But it appears there's a loophole to the Catch-22 - wear some kind of official-looking blue uniform and service belt and the sheeple shall be placated.

perception is the key.

About 2 months or so back, a poster on NES said that they saw a person with a gun in a holster in a non-range venue and were "alarmed".

And this is, presumably, a Pro 2A person.

Armed security guards...no issue; armored car drivers....no issue; anything that looks "official'....no issue.

Dude with a gat in the waistband.....OMG!!!

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Not too long ago I saw a private security guard open-carrying a semi-auto pistol at a gas station. He wasn't working at the gas station, just stopped for gas and walking around.

I went home and Googled open carry and discovered it's legal in Mass. Except for the Catch-22 that if you scare the citizenry, which you will, you lose your LTC-A for unsuitability. But it appears there's a loophole to the Catch-22 - wear some kind of official-looking blue uniform and service belt and the sheeple shall be placated.

No, no, no. Please stop saying these things. That someone might alarm another person by doing EXACTLY what their LTC permits them to do is NOT the problem of the licensee. We have VERY good case law on this.

Mr. Simkin cannot be held accountable for someone's subjective fear and alarm when learning that someone possessed a firearm when he
did nothing that caused that fear and alarm.

Next, we suspect that the average Massachusetts resident may become “alarmed” on learning that someone other than a law enforcement officer is carrying concealed weapons in his or her presence. However, Simkin is not responsible for alarm caused to others by his mere carrying of concealed weapons pursuant to a license permitting him to do exactly that.

 

[mibro]

No, no, no. Please stop saying these things. That someone might alarm another person by doing EXACTLY what their LTC permits them to do is NOT the problem of the licensee. We have VERY good case law on this.

Irrelevant, unless you want to spend your life in litigation. I have better things to do with my time then sue my town's police department because the chief revoked my LTC-A.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Irrelevant, unless you want to spend your life in litigation. I have better things to do with my time then sue my town's police department because the chief revoked my LTC-A.

If anyone has their LTC revoked over the "not concealed" issue, Comm2A wants to hear about it.

 

[Coyote33]

... Except for the Catch-22 that if you scare the citizenry, which you might, you allegedly could lose your LTC-A for unsuitability. But it appears there's a loophole to the Catch-22 - wear some kind of official-looking blue uniform and service belt and the sheeple shall be placated.

FIFY.

I think the people wearing black T Shits with the block letters SECURITY in post Katrina New Orleans were allowed to keep their guns while the PD took guns from the citizens.

Now THERE is something useful for people to add to their "bug out bag" or "SHTF bag".

perception is the key.

About 2 months or so back, a poster on NES said that they saw a person with a gun in a holster in a non-range venue and were "alarmed".

And this is, presumably, a Pro 2A person.

Armed security guards...no issue; armored car drivers....no issue; anything that looks "official'....no issue.

Dude with a gat in the waistband.....OMG!!!

A blue or black shirt with neat khaki pants and black shoes would probably work also.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Irrelevant, unless you want to spend your life in litigation. I have better things to do with my time then sue my town's police department because the chief revoked my LTC-A.

It's fine that you want to put your head and the sand and live in fear. No problem. We just ask that you stop repeating this bull shit and give people the opportunity to make up their own minds. We put too much work into these cases to have people like you come along and tell everyone else that it doesn't matter.

 

[mibro]

It's fine that you want to put your head and the sand and live in fear. No problem. We just ask that you stop repeating this bull shit and give people the opportunity to make up their own minds. We put too much work into these cases to have people like you come along and tell everyone else that it doesn't matter.

I don't know who you are but I'll assume you're active in pro-2A litigation from your statements. So I thank you for your efforts.

To be honest I'm a bit surprised at the hostility of your attack on me for observing what few people would deny. That in Massachusetts you hold your LTC-A at the discretion of the COP and that open carrying is asking for trouble.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I don't know who you are but I'll assume you're active in pro-2A litigation from your statements. So I thank you for your efforts.

Since you missed the memo, Mr. Dragger is president of www.comm2a.org

 

[MisterHappy]

And, part of Mr. Dragger's frustration is that hiding in fear does not advance the cause.

I coined the term Massprudence to give a shorthand way of describing the way Mass. residents will exceed the requirements of law (trigger lock on a O/U shottie for transport, for example) in case of an interaction with John Law.

His point is "If you're legal, you're legal." Your point is that "If you're legal, you can still get screwed over by the system."

The overall point is that cringing in fear when exercising your rights, privileges, and freedoms is not the way to keep them.

In the interest of full disclosure, I am not one who open carries; in fact, I don't carry all that often. But, neither am I in hiding. I have spoken in various public venues, and have been known to write a letter or two to the Glob, et al.

Look at Knuckle Dragger's avatar. It was chosen for a reason.