When The Cops Yell At You To "Drop The Gun", What Do You Do ???

[Zappa]

The answer is obviously to drop the gun, but some people still don't get it, and end up on the wrong end of a mag dump:

Chilling video shows Florida deputy shoot suspect whose brother had just been gunned down

Body-cam footage released by the Orange County Sheriff’s Office shows a deputy arriving at the Heritage Hotel on Aug. 6 at 12:30 p.m. and finding a man on the ground with a gunshot wound to t…

nypost.com

 

[OnTheRoad]

If it's an expensive one, can I ask if it's OK to carefully set it down?

 

[Len-2A Training]

If it's an expensive one, can I ask if it's OK to carefully set it down?

It'll probably be the last words you ever speak.

 

[enbloc]

Can I drop it to my foot then gently roll it off...?

 

[enbloc]

crazy ass video...

 

[CATI]

It is weird how officers are so afraid of firearms carried/held by commoners and the public is supposed to be rational / calm when obviously every officer has a firearm

(of course the guy that was murdered did exactly what he was not supposed to do if he was interested in living)

62 officers died in 2021 from firearms vs 1000+ people killed by officers

 

[M1911]

There is a reason that Ayoob taught us at LFI-1 that you don't want to have a gun in your hand when the police roll up.

 

[enbloc]

(of course the guy that was murdered did exactly what he was not supposed to do if he was interested in living)

Murdered... is exactly what happened.

 

[Mtn_Guy]

 

[Picton]

"What do you do?" Do you even have to ask?

 

[Lucas McCain]

What graphic content? They blurred out all the good parts!

 

[meh]

There is a reason that Ayoob taught us at LFI-1 that you don't want to have a gun in your hand when the police roll up.

This.

Stupid is supposed to hurt, and on one level, the level that he could control, stupidity got this guy killed. It doesn't imply that it was a good shoot. Why did the cop start shooting when he did? I'm not sure he still had the gun in his hand at that instant.

 

[m_n_x]

Other reporting says he had already given the gun to another deputy when he got lit up.

Video shows Florida cop shoot suspect after brother was gunned down

The incident, which transpired August 6 outside the Heritage Hotel in Orlando, saw both brothers lives snuffed out - and saw the deputy placed on administrative lead pending an investigation.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[M1911]

Other reporting says he had already given the gun to another deputy when he got lit up.

That would be bad if that is actually true.

 

[meh]

Other reporting says he had already given the gun to another deputy when he got lit up.

Yeah, I just went back and watched it a few more times. The other deputy comes in to disarm him. I think it would be a stretch to say that he "gave" the gun to the other deputy, rather that he neither helped nor hindered being disarmed as he kept the gun pointed down at his side. The deputy opened fire after the guy had been disarmed.

 

[M1911]

Yeah, I just went back and watched it a few more times. The other deputy comes in to disarm him. I think it would be a stretch to say that he "gave" the gun to the other deputy, rather that he neither helped nor hindered being disarmed as he kept the gun pointed down at his side. The deputy opened fire after the guy had been disarmed.

How soon after?

 

[enbloc]

How soon after?

Seemed like a lifetime...

 

[meh]

How soon after?

It's not clear enough to be precise. I'd say somewhere between 1 and 2 seconds. I could only guess that the deputy who opened fire thought he was viewing a struggle, which does not seem to have been the case.

 

[M1911]

Seemed like a lifetime...

The point I was trying to make doesn't seem to be the case in this situation. Have you ever played first person shooters? I play this silly tank game and I can't tell you how many times I see the tank that I'm about to shoot blow up and then I shoot it a fraction of a second afterwards even though I want to not shoot it, because it has already blown up. After you've made the decision to fire, it takes time to make the decision to not fire, and by the time you make that decision, you may have already pulled the trigger. People can't see things, make a decision instantly, and instantly command their body to stop an action. Reaction takes time.

But I don't think that is the case in this situation. This situation seemed to me to be chaotic and the deputy didn't have the greatest view of the situation. The gun is in the kid's left hand, down by his leg. He is bladed away from the deputy so the gun is down by his leg, away from the deputy, and isn't clearly visible. In addition, the deputy is quite close and has his gun up at chest height, so I suspect he couldn't see the gun once he was aiming at the kid's chest. So I doubt he even saw the kid give the gun to the other deputy, because his own gun was in the way and he was focused either on the kid's chest or his own front sight.

This is one shit sandwich.

 

[enbloc]

This is the closest I've come to a "first person" shooter game...

 

[M1911]

The time required to make a decision was something that Ayoob covered in either LFI-1 or 2. There have been defensive shootings where the perp decides to leave, spins around, and was shot in the back before taking a step. They were a threat and then maybe not a threat in a fraction of a second, before the shooter could make the decision to stop firing.

But as I said, I don't think that's the case here. I think in this case the deputy simply couldn't see the kid's gun hand.

Don't have a gun in your hand when the cops roll up, because things can go sideways in a heartbeat.

 

[mibro]

Murder.

 

[M1911]

Murder.

I disagree.

 

[greencobra]

probably best if the gun had a lanyard attached...then you could lower slowly.

 

[teamRR]

I had an an odd and stressful conversation where I shoot that started with a cop coming out of the woods behind me and yelling "freeze, drop the gun!" - luckily I had electric muffs on, I heard and complied (laying it down nicely). He didn't draw his, maybe had his hand on it.

The rest of the conversation was kinda funny - "What are you doing shooting out here?" My reply was "I'm just testing out this Glock, I shoot here every weekend, what are you doing out there in the woods? You coming out of the woods like that scared the shit out of me man"

 

[Broc]

The answer is obviously to drop the gun, but some people still don't get it, and end up on the wrong end of a mag dump:

Chilling video shows Florida deputy shoot suspect whose brother had just been gunned down

Body-cam footage released by the Orange County Sheriff’s Office shows a deputy arriving at the Heritage Hotel on Aug. 6 at 12:30 p.m. and finding a man on the ground with a gunshot wound to t…

nypost.com

Well, looks like the guy barely had a chance to listen to the command.

"Put the gun down" ... 2 seconds later shoot. WTF.

 

[enbloc]

Well, looks like the guy barely had a chance to listen to the command.

"Put the gun down" ... 2 seconds later shoot. WTF.

Coulda went: "Put bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, the gun down!"...

(yes. I counted)

 

[mibro]

In case it's not clear from the article, the man shot by the LEO is the brother of the injured man on the ground. He is not the shooter. The shooter is a third party.

So this family went from one dead son to two thanks to Officer Mag Dump.

 

[G4Y4HK]

Well, looks like the guy barely had a chance to listen to the command.

"Put the gun down" ... 2 seconds later shoot. WTF.

Cops are trained to think any civilian with a gun in hand is a deadly threat. A 'drop the gun' order is typically followed by a mag dump in less than 2 to 3 seconds afterwards. Blame adrenaline.

When you see and/or hear sirens roll up towards you, better to already be in 'compliant sheeple position' before the cops see you. gun dropped out of reach, kick it into a bush or something. Then interlace your fingers and put on top of your head and cross your feet while on your knees. Only then when a cop comes up at you with his own gun pointed at your face and barking orders at you, you may have a 25% chance of surviving the encounter. Survival probability goes up if you respond with YES MASSA.

 

[meh]

So I doubt he even saw the kid give the gun to the other deputy, because his own gun was in the way and he was focused either on the kid's chest or his own front sight.

The body cam refutes that defense, IMHO. He could have seen it because he is a lefty, and he moved his right arm out of the way, giving his body cam, and obviously his own head, a clear line of sight to the gun. I'm not going to bother talking about what crime he arguably committed because there must be like a 99% chance that they'll decide it was reasonable in the moment, not because it actually was, rather because the bar for deciding otherwise is so high.