What is "snappier" in your hand?

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MXD

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My wife is trying to decide between the Kahr PM9 and a S&W 642 for EDC. She's 5'3 105 lbs and has tiny hands. After holding dozens of guns, these are the 2 that feel best to her. The 642 fits like a glove. Are they comparable in "punch" to the hand? She is leaning toward the 642 but if the PM9 is going to be much easier to shoot she might go with that? She is used to my M&P9 full size but I told her that both of those are going to hit her hand harder than the MP.
 
MY hands aren't relevant. Neither are yours.

The issue is what feels better in your wife's hands.
 
I understand that but which one translates more energy to your hand is a constant. How that energy "feels" is your opinion. I was just asking which one sends more energy to your hands.
 
I am 5' 3', with small hands, and I own both guns.

I've shot +P+ 9mm in the PM9, and that get's kinda snappy. With regular 115 gr 9mm, it's pretty tame.

With the 642, Gold Dot +p spanks your hand a little bit, but you can download with a number of good quality 38 cal loads for defense.

Overall these are the two hardest guns for me to decide between for personal carry. They are both perfect.
 
I have a S&W 642 with the Crimson Trace grip. I think it is pretty darn snappy. The grip is rubber with a little "shock absorber" in the upper back. Never shot it with stock grip so I can't say how much the grip absorbs but I don't find it very enjoyable to shoot. Have never tried the Kahr PM9 so I'm no help it comparing them. Good luck
 
There are plenty of people on this board that have these guns and would be more than willing to let your wife try them. You just need to ask
 
MXD said:
I don't know anyone with either so trying them is not going to be easy unfortunately.
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Supermoto said:
There are plenty of people on this board that have these guns and would be more than willing to let your wife try them. You just need to ask
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No need to ask, I'm making the offer to let her try the 642 with Crimson Trace grips at Braintree R&P. I don't own the other gun, so I can't help you with that one. The 642 also has a Greg Derr trigger job which makes it a lot easier to shoot.
 
MXD said:
My wife is trying to decide between the Kahr PM9 and a S&W 642 for EDC. She's 5'3 105 lbs and has tiny hands. After holding dozens of guns, these are the 2 that feel best to her. The 642 fits like a glove. Are they comparable in "punch" to the hand? She is leaning toward the 642 but if the PM9 is going to be much easier to shoot she might go with that? She is used to my M&P9 full size but I told her that both of those are going to hit her hand harder than the MP.
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She has to shoot them.

I'm 5'8" and almost 180 pounds. I didn't feel comfortable carrying the 642 every day because:

1. I can't hit anything with it unless I take my time and try really really hard. I can't take quick follow up shots accurately.
2. It packs a pretty big punch. Your wife being 5'3" and only 105 pounds...I would say it's too much for her but maybe I'm just a pansy.

I have another J frame and would only carry on days where carrying anything bigger would be problematic. That would likely only occur a few days a year.

For every day carry, I think it would be a balance between "fit" and how well you shoot it. She really needs to try both out.
 
LenS said:
No need to ask, I'm making the offer to let her try the 642 with Crimson Trace grips at Braintree R&P. I don't own the other gun, so I can't help you with that one. The 642 also has a Greg Derr trigger job which makes it a lot easier to shoot.
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Well I can let her try my kahr mk9. Unfortunetely it won't be a direct comparison as the mk9 is a metal frame wereas the pm9 is polymer but other than that the guns are identical. I am also a member at BRP if that helps.
 
All else being equal, you can use lighter loads in the S&W, and there is a greater choice of soft grips. There are some serious gun writers who recommend target .38 wadcutters for self-defense for smaller folks. The target loads hit harder with their flat nose than some pointed rounds at higher velocity.
The other option would be to go to .380 or a .32 revolver. And even consider the .22 snubbies. The S&W 317 carries 8 rounds, 60% more than the 642, and the Model 351 .22 Magnum carries 7, or 40% more. Recoil is negligible on the magnum, and non-existent on the .22 LR.
 
I've shot both the PM9 and the 642.

What you will notice first when firing each one is "Wow... this gun is SNAPPY".

The second thing you will notice is whether or not you hit paper with any of your rounds [smile]

After 5 shots out of the 642 (or any J Frame) my first thought is always "F... this gun is snappy." Then I look at my target and say... "Eh... 2 out of 5 on paper @ 21 feet ain't bad." [thinking] [sad2]

After 6/7 shots out of the PM9 my first thought was "F... this gun is snappy." Then I look at my target and see that all rounds are on paper... making roughly a 6 inch group at 21 feet. [grin]

So FOR ME... both are snappy as balls... but if I were to have to use either one in a defensive situation... I know I can put rounds on target with the PM9. Not so much with the 642.

Like everyone has suggested... it's best to have her try both out.

PaulD was generous enough to let me try out his PM9. Shoot him a PM and I'm sure he'd be glad to let you and the Mrs. try it out at Mass Rifle Association or Harvard Sportsman Club (which I believe he's switching to next month?).

And Paul, since I'm "volunteering" your PM9 [smile] I'd be glad to meet you guys at the range, hang out... and clean the PM9 afterward for you [grin]
 
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Supermoto said:
The 642 really needs an experienced shooter to perform well. Without a strong grip and proper mechanics, its a difficult gun to control.
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+1

J frames are easy to shoot if the overwhelming majority of your trigger time is with DA revolvers or if you come from a semi auto background but understand the different grip required.

If you don't know that, the J frame will kick your butt.
 
Jose said:
understand the different grip required.
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What is the differrant grip required? I have almost all my shooting experience with semiautomactics. I've only put about 100 rounds or so through my 642 and I do find it harder on my hand. Thanks
 
705squat said:
What is the differrant grip required? I have almost all my shooting experience with semiautomactics. I've only put about 100 rounds or so through my 642 and I do find it harder on my hand. Thanks
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snubgrip.jpg


That grip is TIGHT. Notice the dominant hand's thumb curled down into the relief on the grip. That relief is there to allow both speedloader clearance and your thumb a place to go. The dominant hand thumb is also actively gripping the pistol, which is the total opposite of the modern grip taught for semi auto use where the thumb rides high and is not an active part of the grip. Notice also that my hand is gripping the pistol up as high as I can go. That high grip reduces muzzle flip as it brings the hand more in line with the bore axis.

The support hand gets deployed like you would with a semi auto with the meat of the palm on the portion of the grip not covered by the dominant hand and then knuckles to knuckles over the dominant hand. The support hand thumb goes forward along the bottom of the frame, but keep the tip of the thumb back away from the cylinder gap (unless you have huge hands that should not be a problem).

Also notice the trigger finger. It is into the trigger guard all the way and the trigger is pressed with the first joint of the finger and not with the tip of the finger. A trigger press technique that works great with single action and striker fired semis is a disaster with double action revolvers.

Revolvers simply have more felt recoil than semi autos. The main reason is the lack of a reciprocating mass. The secondary reason is that some revolver loadings are simply more powerful than comparable semi auto loads. The standard .38 Special defensive load (158 grain lead SWCHP +P) is just more powerful than most 9mm offerings except for the 124 grain +P loads going over 1200 fps. And when you step up to the 125 grain .357 Magnum, well, there is nothing short of a 10mm Norma in the auto pistol world that even comes close.
 
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Scrivener said:
MY hands aren't relevant. Neither are yours.

The issue is what feels better in your wife's hands.
Click to expand...

Yup. I'd say we have the winner.

The only thing that I would add that may affect the decision would be what the gun will be used for. Range use only, CCW, Home Defense, etc. For example, it might be better to go with a snappier gun in a smaller package, if it is controllable, for CCW. But for a shooter, there is no sense in punishing yourself with a snappier gun. Get her something that she'll enjoy shooting.

Edit: I just realized that you said the reason was EDC. So, you don't need to decide the usage issue
 
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Jose said:
Also notice the trigger finger. It is into the trigger guard all the way and the trigger is pressed with the first joint of the finger and not with the tip of the finger. A trigger press technique that works great with single action and striker fired semis is a disaster with double action revolvers.
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What is the proper technique for a DA revolver?
 
Jose said:
It's right there in the text that you quoted.
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When I read your post, it sounded like you were saying that it was wrong to press it with the joint, as in the picture, and that it was correct to press it with the tip of the finger. That is what I was asking you to clarify. Will you just say which is the proper way?
 
As another poster stated, the Kahr MK9 is a far better choice here (given that your wife likes the fit of the PM9). The key is weight. You seem to be focused on some of the lightest weight guns available. If recoil and muzzle snap is an issue, they can be easily reduced by a heavier gun. Going from 14 ounces to 22 ounces will make a substantial improvement in that respect. And a 22 ounce gun is still very light as far as being comfortable to carry. Just stay away from the extremely light guns for novices or recoil sensitive people.
.
 
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Jose said:
Nahhh, it's just easier to add you to my ignore list.
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Sorry I bothered to ask you for a little help. I'm not very well-versed in DA revolvers. I Figured it might help clarify something that the OP could benefit from as well. Not really sure what your problem is.
 
JackDaniels said:
Sorry I bothered to ask you for a little help. I'm not very well-versed in DA revolvers. I Figured it might help clarify something that the OP could benefit from as well. Not really sure what your problem is.
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The way I read it, you should put the trigger into your first knuckle as opposed to the pad on the tip of your finger like on a semi auto pistol.
 
MXD said:
The way I read it, you should put the trigger into your first knuckle as opposed to the pad on the tip of your finger like on a semi auto pistol.
Click to expand...

Thanks. That helps. I actually use my knuckle for single action pistols as well. My fingers are long, and it isn't easy to keep the tip of my finger on the trigger during rapid fire.
 
Jose said:
snubgrip.jpg


That grip is TIGHT. Notice the dominant hand's thumb curled down into the relief on the grip. That relief is there to allow both speedloader clearance and your thumb a place to go. The dominant hand thumb is also actively gripping the pistol, which is the total opposite of the modern grip taught for semi auto use where the thumb rides high and is not an active part of the grip. Notice also that my hand is gripping the pistol up as high as I can go. That high grip reduces muzzle flip as it brings the hand more in line with the bore axis.

The support hand gets deployed like you would with a semi auto with the meat of the palm on the portion of the grip not covered by the dominant hand and then knuckles to knuckles over the dominant hand. The support hand thumb goes forward along the bottom of the frame, but keep the tip of the thumb back away from the cylinder gap (unless you have huge hands that should not be a problem).

Also notice the trigger finger. It is into the trigger guard all the way and the trigger is pressed with the first joint of the finger and not with the tip of the finger. A trigger press technique that works great with single action and striker fired semis is a disaster with double action revolvers.

Revolvers simply have more felt recoil than semi autos. The main reason is the lack of a reciprocating mass. The secondary reason is that some revolver loadings are simply more powerful than comparable semi auto loads. The standard .38 Special defensive load (158 grain lead SWCHP +P) is just more powerful than most 9mm offerings except for the 124 grain +P loads going over 1200 fps. And when you step up to the 125 grain .357 Magnum, well, there is nothing short of a 10mm Norma in the auto pistol world that even comes close.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jose I'll try that next time I take the 642 to the range.
 

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