What gun control would you actually support?

[atmay]

Incapable or simply conditioned not to. Of all the classes i took, the ones not directly grounded in hard science all had a noticable part of the grade linked to the political views of the instructor. In other words, go against the prof and lose a grade or more

BTDT. Sometimes, it doesn't matter how clear your point and evidence are, or how well written the paper is, it's whether or not your opinion is correct.

 

[zbrod]

Discussions don't necessarily have to be adversarial debates with people taking opposing stances and arguing for their stance/against the other stance. I think in zbrod's case it's a matter of one party being fairly new to the topic and having some half-formed ideas, and coming to a community of people who are more knowledgeable and who have stronger, more informed opinions on the topic. By posing these hypotheticals and thought experiments, he's getting a feel for what some people in the community think about the topic of gun control, and getting some more solid information on why people here think the way they do.

It's a dialog of sorts, just not a debate in the traditional sense.

Sometimes discussions will go somewhere, but they'll take some time to get there. Peoples' minds don't just turn on a dime - sometimes it takes some time and consideration from a few different angles before opinions can be formed or re-formed. I understand that it can be frustrating, especially when these topics have been rehashed dozens of times by dozens of people, but to automatically label someone who is perhaps a bit uninformed a "troll" is unfair. Of course, sometimes a troll is a troll is a troll, but other times it's a little less clear and it's worthwhile to discuss things. A troll will eventually "slip" and make it obvious what they're up to. I think zbrod is genuinely interested in taking the time to learn more (as evidenced by his going shooting with someone).

THIS

How old are you, what are your life experiences that you would say formed your current liberal views, do you currently attend college and if you do what is your main subject of study?

I'll forgive you for not reading previous posts as this thread is so damn long. I'm 24, I am no longer in college (completed grad school in May), BS and MS in Computer Science from Brandeis and WPI, respectively. My parents lean Democrat but are not very "political." My liberal views can probably be attributed more to George W. Bush than any life experiences that I can think of. I know you guys think I was just indoctrinated by my parents/school/etc, but honestly I think it comes from inside me, is just part of [my] sense of justice and fairness. Just like with my love of rap and interest in guns, there were no external factors (that I know of) pushing me in that direction; actually, if anything the opposite was true. But something about them just speaks to me.

There is, of course, plenty more interesting information on my OKCupid profile for your viewing pleasure.

(Everything DrGrant said)

I really liked your post, thank you for taking the time to write it. While I probably fall under the category of "bad liberals/progressives/socialists" to some degree, it was still insightful.

zbrod, like i suggested before, if you really are interested in educating yourself with regard to matters such as gun control, etc. consider taking a look at the readings I provided. They are eye openers.

I read the shorter one, the longer one appears to have the same thesis.

Troll, please state your *current* views of what gun control you beleive is appropriate.

Gun control is bad. Being a squishy college student, this could change after further reflection, but not likely. Will keep you posted.

 

[HTRN]

Gun control is bad. Being a squishy college student, this could change after further reflection, but not likely. Will keep you posted.

Good to see the reply. Its sometimes easier to learn if you fully articulate your current assumptions and work from there.

 

[GunGrey]

To.get through school liberal school anyways just tell them what they want to here....its extremely easy and for the most part it work.

Gun control isn't about guns its about people

 

[Vagrant]

I'll forgive you for not reading previous posts as this thread is so damn long. I'm 24, I am no longer in college (completed grad school in May), BS and MS in Computer Science from Brandeis and WPI, respectively. My parents lean Democrat but are not very "political." My liberal views can probably be attributed more to George W. Bush than any life experiences that I can think of. I know you guys think I was just indoctrinated by my parents/school/etc, but honestly I think it comes from inside me, is just part of [my] sense of justice and fairness. Just like with my love of rap and interest in guns, there were no external factors (that I know of) pushing me in that direction; actually, if anything the opposite was true. But something about them just speaks to me.

Off topic, but I graduated from Brandeis in '08

 

[Blitz1]

zbrod is a product of today's fine academic institutions. As such, he will prove himself incapable of taking a definite point of view, or defend it in anyway.

We are faced with a generation of mediocrity that will not condemn that which needs to be condemned, or defend that which needs to be defended, because they have been trained that there are no absolutes in this life.

This.

Come to a shoot, you have more than one offer to be a guest for the next shoot. So put up or shut up.

If you actually show up then you'll understand.

It will be your first step on your very long ladder to be a man.

 

[In God We Trust]

Seriously zbrod go to the shoot. Its just a bunch of normal guys shooting guns. Nothing to be intimidated by. I would be surprised if anyone gave u any crap.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[Jose]

My liberal views can probably be attributed more to George W. Bush than any life experiences that I can think of. I know you guys think I was just indoctrinated by my parents/school/etc, but honestly I think it comes from inside me, is just part of [my] sense of justice and fairness.

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.

 

[Martlet]

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.

I've never been able to wrap my brain around how some people equate "justice and fairness" to forcibly taking the fruits of labor from one and giving it to another and restricting freedom.

 

[Boghog1]

I've never been able to wrap my brain around how some people equate "justice and fairness" to forcibly taking the fruits of labor from one and giving it to another and restricting freedom.

But they will try to tell you they believe in accountability for ones actions and freedom, when in fact they want nothing more that control

 

[NHPatriot]

My liberal views can probably be attributed more to George W. Bush than any life experiences that I can think of. I know you guys think I was just indoctrinated by my parents/school/etc, but honestly I think it comes from inside me, is just part of [my] sense of justice and fairness.

That's the beauty of make believe. I will decapitate a school bus full of children with a chainsaw and sleep like a baby if it's in a video game. I can tell the difference between real and fake. I prefer Battlefield to COD anyway.

I'm not collecting quotes to use against you guys. In fact, I've actually brought up many of your points (with regard to guns) with my liberal friends to see what their responses are (usually not very convincing). I'll have you know that you've largely convinced me of what I already heavily suspected was true before even coming here, that gun control is wrong and ineffective. I know it enrages you, but you'll pardon me for not throwing away me entire liberal ideology on all other issues because of that, however.

I've got a long day ahead of me, I'll be on later.

So when do we get to hear specifics about what you believe from your liberal (really socialist) ideology ?

 

[Dija]

I've never been able to wrap my brain around how some people equate "justice and fairness" to forcibly taking the fruits of labor from one and giving it to another and restricting freedom.

"Justice and fairness" is just a facade for collectivists to hide behind. They really just want control and power. The collectivists that really believe the justice and fairness stuff are the useful idiots to the evil ones that want to enslave you.

 

[cekim]

"Justice and fairness" is just a facade for collectivists to hide behind. They really just want control and power. The collectivists that really believe the justice and fairness stuff are the useful idiots to the evil ones that want to enslave you.

That explains some of them - others just never grew up and still thinking in terms of "Mine!", "It's not fair!", and "I'm gonna tell."

 

[Dija]

That explains some of them - others just never grew up and still thinking in terms of "Mine!", "It's not fair!", and "I'm gonna tell."

Perhaps those types are a subset of the useful idiot type?

 

[cekim]

Perhaps those types are a subset of the useful idiot type?

They certainly are, as we see in MA, they don't ask critical questions when they are promised things from the government. They are plenty happy so long as they are told they are getting stuff...

This is how obvious crooks keep getting elected. It's clear from the cost of living in MA vs Maine, VT, NH that something is not right about the equation of what you are getting from government, but people keep lapping it up as long as they are told they are getting "free stuff" from the government.

It also explains why MA is ripe with made up laws "Oooh, I'm gonna tell...."

 

[P-14]

Gun control is bad. Being a squishy college student, this could change after further reflection, but not likely. Will keep you posted.

A very good start. Turn away from the dark side, Luke.

 

[Mike S]

My liberal views can probably be attributed more to George W. Bush than any life experiences that I can think of.

This actually made me laugh out loud, it's BUSH's FAULT!!!

What about Dubba, made you become a liberal? Do you watch MSNBC?

Serious questions, not attacking.

 

[cekim]

My liberal views can probably be attributed more to George W. Bush than any life experiences that I can think of.

As Mike says, "Bush's fault."

Doubly ironic since Bush was the ultimate RINO, Patriot act, Spending like a drunken sailor, Fed in bed with the Banks.

Exceeded only by Obama's reckless spending, handing our money to the banks, Patriot Act, etc...

This is the problem with the "Conservative" and "liberal" labels these days... As the establishment is now liberal, global warming, and anti-gun, we are now the "liberals" as we are seeking to change the system... Christian coalition took over the Republicans and shat where they ate - now they are getting swept out by the Tea Party, but their roots are strong and their crazy even stronger.

Don't be an idiot liberal because of Bush, he's every bit as much of the problem as Pelosi or Obama.

 

[william_munny]

^What these two just said.

Bush sucked, plain and simple. I know you were about 14 when he was elected, and you had to deal with him as our country's leader throughout most of your intellectual formative years, so I don't blame you for the "conservative" side leaving a bad taste in your mouth. At the same time, Bush is not our champion of ideals, and you won't find much support for him here. He is not our idea of a good American leader.

 

[Mike S]

Don't be an idiot liberal because of Bush, he's every bit as much of the problem as Pelosi or Obama.

QFTMFnT!!

While we're at it Zbrod, Romney is no conservative either, another freaking RINO that can't go away fast enough.

 

[Dija]

As Mike says, "Bush's fault."

Doubly ironic since Bush was the ultimate RINO, Patriot act, Spending like a drunken sailor, Fed in bed with the Banks.

Exceeded only by Obama's reckless spending, handing our money to the banks, Patriot Act, etc...

This is the problem with the "Conservative" and "liberal" labels these days... As the establishment is now liberal, global warming, and anti-gun, we are now the "liberals" as we are seeking to change the system... Christian coalition took over the Republicans and shat where they ate - now they are getting swept out by the Tea Party, but their roots are strong and their crazy even stronger.

Don't be an idiot liberal because of Bush, he's every bit as much of the problem as Pelosi or Obama.

Don't forget continuing two wars and now adding two more (Libya, and yes I'm already counting Yemen. I'm sure there are other countries we don't know about.)

 

[Boghog1]

QFTMFnT!!

While we're at it Zbrod, Romney is no conservative either, another freaking RINO that can't go away fast enough.

I bet if you think hard you can come up with at least one or two more presidential hopefuls that fall under the RINO umbrella

 

[Mike S]

I bet if you think hard you can come up with at least one or two more presidential hopefuls that fall under the RINO umbrella

It wouldn't take any effort at all actually

 

[Lank]

A gun control law I would support?

Photo ID and a quick background check.....Oh wait, nevermind.

 

[cekim]

It wouldn't take any effort at all actually

Easier to find a herd of R[h]inos in DC than it is in Africa...

 

[Jose]

A gun control law I would support?

Photo ID and a quick background check.....Oh wait, nevermind.

Seriously?

 

[Mike S]

Jose, where's that Jesus face palm pic you had? Might need that again.

 

[drgrant]

I really liked your post, thank you for taking the time to write it. While I probably fall under the category of "bad liberals/progressives/socialists" to some degree, it was still insightful.

If I have one piece of advice it's this.... I urge you to start deeply examining typical Socialist/"liberal" policy items. The harsh reality is that a lot of the policies being pushed on that platform are, in a sense, deleterious to whatever goal it is they are trying to achieve. For starters, when you steal lots of money from income earners in the US, you destroy the potential of that income being used for things like direct charity, which on the whole, is likely far more efficient than government administered charity. I'm not an economist but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to show that if the government only "delivers" .25 cents of every dollar stolen (it may be slightly better or worse than this, but I'll bet nearly anything I'm in the ballpark with all the waste and fraud going on) to people that they think need it, how is that an efficient system? Worse yet, the government is deciding for all the people that it steals from, the who/where and how of that "charity". This should disgust you.

I also hope that your retort isn't that of the typical socialist- "What are they going to do with the extra money? Bake it into pies?" (some moonbat a**h*** in congress actually said that once). Or that you think that someone would just buy another plasma TV. What someone does with their money (the fruits of their labor) is none of "society's" business. This is America. This is a country where an individual should be free to waste all of his or her money on hookers and blow if they want, or to spend or save it wisely. Part of the curse of the individual (which the founders deeply embraced) is that everyone has to deal with the benefits and perils of individual freedom. People need to accept that this freedom has costs. And if they can't, there are a ton of other places on the globe they can bug out to that don't believe in this ethos, and nobody is stopping them from emigrating.

I'll give you a graphic example to bring things home a bit. Say you have someone in your extended family who is stricken with cancer or some other debilitating illness, and that person is a breadwinner for their immediate family. They are wrecked with all the expenses, between the medical bills that insurance may not cover fully, and household bills. They do not qualify for government assistance because "their house is too big", they're not from a protected class, or some garbage like that. You want to help them out until they can get back on their feet financially. The government likely rapes thousands of dollars from you every year. That's thousands of dollars less, that, in effect, you do not have, to engage in your own form of personal charity for people in your own "tribe. " If that doesn't sound offensive to you, then I don't know what will. In effect, the government is discouraging people from helping others via this practice. It's about as dehumanizing as it gets. This is just the tip of the iceberg, too... socialism also promotes things like class warfare, racism, etc, but that's all too much for me to get into right now. If you are genuinely interested in the truth you will learn it. If you seek "Fairness" and "Justice" for people, I believe with some serious introspection you will find that a large portion of the socialist platform to be deeply flawed.


-Mike

 

[Jose]

Bravo, Mike. Well done.

 

[jude061]

I've never been able to wrap my brain around how some people equate "justice and fairness" to forcibly taking the fruits of labor from one and giving it to another and restricting freedom.

it's been articulated before: some people are more equal than others. who that priveleged group is depends which group is currently in power.

and gun control isn't about guns, it's about control. How rational a thesis would it be if the gov called for a ban on automobiles every time there was an accident? it's an assenine attempt to take power from the citizens and give it to the governing authority.