What do you use for sights?

[Lord0fWar]

I was asked to write a guest blog for a training company down in Florida.

I wanted to make sure that the good folks of NES who are serious about defensive pistol work got to see it.

http://traintocarry.com/blog/2012/02/03/upgrading-your-pistol-sights/

 

[FreeWillie]

Nice article! Thanks for sharing it with us.

 

[edgeofcrimson]

even though I do not own a pistol yet, and I am still waiting on my phone call to pick up my license, thank you for this article.
I do plan on ccw, but not until I train with the pistol, and get comfortable with it, this info about sights, and what to expect in low light situations was very informative, and I have bookmarked it.

-kev

 

[Jose]

The set up I prefer is a hi-viz orange or red fiber optic front sight

Easily one of the most fragile front sights on the planet. As far as I am concerned they are for range toys, not for fighting pistols.

My Glock 17 has a set of Ameriglo Defoor steel sights. I painted the top half of the front blade with day-glo yellow paint. All my revolvers are fixed sight (indestructible) S&W J and K frames. The serrated portion of the front sight is also painted day glo yellow. My S&W 915 has a set of plain steel Novaks.

 

[vellnueve]

I use whatever iron sights came on the gun...

 

[Len-2A Training]

Easily one of the most fragile front sights on the planet. As far as I am concerned they are for range toys, not for fighting pistols.

I have a Dawson FO front sight on my M&P 9 FS. Sight works great on the range.

Jose, if the FO falls out/breaks, it appears to me that the worst case is that you now have a black front sight with a hole in it (sorta like a white dot?), something you should be able to compensate for in a firefight, no? [I ask this since never having had a problem I'm not sure if this is a real issue or not. So, please educate me on this. Thx]

 

[JonathonEmergency]

The serrated portion of the front sight is also painted day glo yellow.

Do you just use model paint, or the paints that are specifically marketed for sights?

 

[Roman]

Easily one of the most fragile front sights on the planet. As far as I am concerned they are for range toys, not for fighting pistols.

Jose,

How many have you seen fail or break in courses or in practical use? How did they fail? Ie did the fiber optic fall out or the entire front sight block break off?

Thanks!

 

[Independence Arms]

I recently installed a set of Truglo TFO's (green on green) on my G36. Very happy with the results, in any lighting conditions.

 

[Jose]

I have a Dawson FO front sight on my M&P 9 FS. Sight works great on the range.

Jose, if the FO falls out/breaks, it appears to me that the worst case is that you now have a black front sight with a hole in it (sorta like a white dot?), something you should be able to compensate for in a firefight, no? [I ask this since never having had a problem I'm not sure if this is a real issue or not. So, please educate me on this. Thx]

I'm sure one could compensate. I'd rather opt for 100% durability.

 

[Jose]

Jose,

How many have you seen fail or break in courses or in practical use? How did they fail? Ie did the fiber optic fall out or the entire front sight block break off?

Thanks!

I've never personally seen one fail. I have seen posts on several forums from people who have had it happen.

Solid steel > little plastic stick. Not much testing needed to validate that.

 

[Jose]

Look, I don't care what you all do. The OP asked a question. I gave my answer and the reasons why. The End.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Jose,

Thanks. I understand that philosophy.

 

[Jose]

Do you just use model paint, or the paints that are specifically marketed for sights?

Day glo paint pens I found at a craft store.

 

[Roman]

Look, I don't care what you all do. The OP asked a question. I gave my answer and the reasons why. The End.

Jose,

I was curious if you had seen something in your own personal experience, being a shooter for far longer than I have.

You bring up a great point worth diving into about front sight failure.

I've seen many back sights break and fail in defensive shooting classes, almost always in one handed manipulation drills using the belt or rigid object. The only front sight failure I have seen so far is a Smith and Wesson M+P front sight "fail" when the white paint fell out of the sight. Your suggestion of glo paint is a good one, I will try it out on my Glock.

I do not have any high viz sights on any of my defense guns, but I'm looking for a mix between visibility and durability.

 

[Lord0fWar]

Jose,

You made a very good point. If you look at the picture in that post of my front sight then you will see that what LenS said is spot on. If the FO breaks, there is still a point of reference which is consistent with the notch and blade set up that will allow you to still use the pistols sights effectively.

Thanks for your input and your points are well taken

 

[Danrk6]

Jose,

How many have you seen fail or break in courses or in practical use? How did they fail? Ie did the fiber optic fall out or the entire front sight block break off?

Thanks!

I have seen a fiber optic sight fail during a handgun course. The gun got hot enough that the plastic melted and began to fall out.

I'm with Jose, they are for range toys.

 

[Roman]

I have seen a fiber optic sight fail during a handgun course. The gun got hot enough that the plastic melted and began to fall out.

I'm with Jose, they are for range toys.

Thanks for the input, never even considered the heat factor.

 

[Lord0fWar]

I have seen a fiber optic sight fail during a handgun course. The gun got hot enough that the plastic melted and began to fall out.

I'm with Jose, they are for range toys.

All of my defensive handguns have Novak fiber optic sights.

Unless you're firing full auto I can't fathom how the gun can get hot enough. The sight is protected by a metal housing. During a class where there were 800 rounds fired each day in the 90 plus degree July heat. The guns were constantly going from our holsters to the high compressed ready then being reholstered and the the guns were also being racked off of belts and holsters during one handed reloads and the sights held true.

Maybe whatever sights you had weren't as rugged as the Novaks

 

[william_munny]

I had Trijicon nights sights installed on my USP. They may only be good for about a decade, but they're my favorite pistol sights so far.

 

[Queen Bee]

I use a mix of meprolights and glock night sights on my glocks, i like how with glock NS, the front sight screw goes all the way through the sight and sits flush ontop, seems a tad bit sturdier than meps but ive hever had a problem with meps plus i like the green front yellow rears ns combo . Wish glock offered that

 

[Dirtypacman]

Ordered up some night sights for my glock this past week, thanks for sharing the article.

 

[TheRoland]

I've never personally seen one fail. I have seen posts on several forums from people who have had it happen.

Solid steel > little plastic stick. Not much testing needed to validate that.

I've seen 3 or 4 fail in about 2 years of attending matches. I dont know the mechanism; heat, recoil, shock in transit, etc.

Jose is right, but some front sights are still OK without the fiber, or with a partial fiber. I wouldn't be afraid to use a fiber for a self-defense gun so long as the sight itself had some substance to it.

However, like Jose, I use black-on-black with paint. For night sighting, I increasingly like lasers.

 

[Atlas]

I share the concern for breakage as well but really prefer the black rear/FO front setup. I recently installed one of those HiVis front sights with the clear overmold around the tube and while its not as bright as a bare tube and can't be changed, it seems very durable.

 

[Danrk6]

All of my defensive handguns have Novak fiber optic sights.

Unless you're firing full auto I can't fathom how the gun can get hot enough. The sight is protected by a metal housing. During a class where there were 800 rounds fired each day in the 90 plus degree July heat. The guns were constantly going from our holsters to the high compressed ready then being reholstered and the the guns were also being racked off of belts and holsters during one handed reloads and the sights held true.

Maybe whatever sights you had weren't as rugged as the Novaks

I'll start by saying that this did not happen to my gun but another shooter in the course. Also, the fact that the fiber optic is housed in metal does nothing to "protect" the sight if we are talking about heat. Last I checked most metals conduct heat quite well. I have burned myself on gun barrels more times than I care to admit. Hell I have melted gloves.

The course called for about a thousand rounds a day over the course of the weekend. The temp was about 90 degrees, and just like you we were running the guns through all the different manipulations. I don't recall at what point it happened, or which drill, but I do know that the fiber optic insert became malleable enough to become loose.

Full auto is not required to produce temperatures hot enough to melt plastic.

With all that being said, I don't think that resistance to heat is the most critical factor when picking a sight for a self defense gun. There are obviously far more important aspects to consider. Do I think a handgun will heat up hot enough to melt a sight during a self defense situation? No, probably not unless you carry 15 mags on you as part of your every day carry. I would be more interested in the fact that steel is harder than plastic. Is it possible to bash your sights on something in a high stress situation? Absolutely. Which do you think would hold up better in this case? I'm putting my money on steel.

But opinions are like a**h***s. I personally have never put any after market irons on my handguns. Doesn't mean that I would not benefit from them, just never bothered.

 

[Jose]

I would be more interested in the fact that steel is harder than plastic. Is it possible to bash your sights on something in a high stress situation? Absolutely. Which do you think would hold up better in this case? I'm putting my money on steel.

A lot of people seem to miss the purpose of a self defense handgun. It is there to be a fighting tool. And while the primary way that it works as such is by being a bullet hose, there are other ways in which a handgun can serve as a weapon. While it is not preferable, using a handgun as an impact weapon should not be discounted.

I want my pistols to remain as intact as possible after dropping them or using them to strike something or somebody in a fight.

Uber front sight visibility doesn't even enter in my consideration matrix.

 

[KMM696]

Your article was a good read - I think the only place my thinking differed was on the fiber optics. I took the other route you suggested, but didn't expand on further in the article:

enhancing your front sight with a hi-viz fiber optic or other brightly colored sight, while keeping the rear sights black

I went with an Ameriglo ProGlo front, green tritium with a big orange outline, and their yellow tritium rear sight with no outlines, just two tritium vial sized holes that almost disappear during daylight shooting.

I like shooting with fiber optic sights on non-defensive guns, that bright dot is great. The two reasons I won't put them on defensive weapons are low light capabilities, and a lack of trust in them after breaking an FO front sight on an 11-87 slug barrel one season. One of the retaining points for the fiber rod broke off at some point during a day in the woods. The Williams sight I was using was not as well made as the Novaks you prefer - I'm sure yours will withstand more abuse. I'd try a better made fiber sight on the 11-87 again, since an equipment failure would only result in a shot not taken, but not on a defensive gun. My opinion, of course.

 

[Supermoto]

I think that the size of the front in relation to the rear is more important than what type the front sight is. Most front sights are way to thick to make fast accurate shots. A narrower sight that allows more light on either side of the front sight(total light equal to the width of the front sight) will allow for the fastest aiming

 

[economist]

I think that the size of the front in relation to the rear is more important than what type the front sight is. Most front sights are way to thick to make fast accurate shots. A narrower sight that allows more light on either side of the front sight(total light equal to the width of the front sight) will allow for the fastest aiming

I don't have anywhere near as much as experience as you do, but I'll add a rookie +1 here. I've been using Warren tactical "Sevigny" sights on my Glock 34 and by far they are the best sights I've tried. They are a simple black serrated steel front with a narrow blade combined with a black U rear. Very durable and quick acquisition.

What are you using?

 

[Supermoto]

I use a .095 front fiber optic on a .115 Bomar style serrated rear. I like the FO front because it is easier to track at speed, especially since I always use a target focus