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Weird unregistered gun situation?

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nthat1

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Looking for some advice for a friend who is in a bit of a strange situation with a rifle she is in possession of. She has always been a MA resident and LTC holder, however, her husband was a NH resident for a while (long story, but that was the situation). Husband purchased and owned a rifle while he was a NH resident. He has since become a MA resident, but never got his FID or LTC. They both now live under one address, together in MA.

The wife took possession of the rifle under her LTC when the husband moved back to MA, but never ended up registering it with an FA-10 or anything. She is now worried that she is in possession of an unregistered firearm and is unsure of what to do? We would greatly appreciate any advice you all may have to offer for her.

I have seen posts indicating that FFL's will transfer unregistered firearms from unlicensed individuals to FID/LTC holders. Is that really true? Wouldn't they be freaked out dealing with someone in that situation? Or possibly even rat on them?

FYI, the rifle is fully MA compliant.
 
76Too said:
You should be ok...MA doesn’t have a gun registry. Just ask your friendly, neighborhood lesbian AG.
Click to expand...
Short answer that this is sort of right. If you moved from NH with stuff that was not outright illegal here and applied for and got your LTC, you do not register anything.

He should get his LTC though.

Made my wife get hers just in case she takes my car on short notice etc. Just easier.


Also, just don't talk about it. Like ever. Anywhere.
 
Assuming the rifle does not have any evil "assault weapon" features and/or "hi cap" postban magazines, there's not much else he/she needs to do. He should have got his LTC when he moved to MA however.
 
nthat1 said:
Looking for some advice for a friend who is in a bit of a strange situation with a rifle she is in possession of. She has always been a MA resident and LTC holder, however, her husband was a NH resident for a while (long story, but that was the situation). Husband purchased and owned a rifle while he was a NH resident. He has since become a MA resident, but never got his FID or LTC. They both now live under one address, together in MA.

The wife took possession of the rifle under her LTC when the husband moved back to MA, but never ended up registering it with an FA-10 or anything. She is now worried that she is in possession of an unregistered firearm and is unsure of what to do? We would greatly appreciate any advice you all may have to offer for her.

I have seen posts indicating that FFL's will transfer unregistered firearms from unlicensed individuals to FID/LTC holders. Is that really true? Wouldn't they be freaked out dealing with someone in that situation? Or possibly even rat on them?

FYI, the rifle is fully MA compliant.
Click to expand...
First and foremost "registration" does not exist in MA. There is an obligation to record transactions. It smells like registration a lot of the time, but is not in fact registration. It is not illegal to possess guns that the state does not know about. I can list no less than 5 ways you can have guns that the state does not know about.

The issue is ownership of the rifle. It was lawful for the husband to bring into the state when he moved here as long as he applied for his FID/LTC within 60 days (or maybe its 90 days, I dont want to go look it up). Since he did not, he is now in possession of a weapon w/o a license which is a problem. I assume his wife took possession and has it secured such that he has no access w/o her being present.

If they want to transfer ownership, then it will require an FFL. Any FFL that is not confused about the law will do the transfer from him to her for a fee. There is no requirement to take the gun in from a LTC/FID holder. We just need to log the gun in from name/address. You cannot transfer ownership legally in MA person to person with him not having an LTC of FID.

There is a corner case of him loaning the gun to his wife. No need to "register" since ownership did not change. The loaning would have had to occur while he was still a NH resident because it gets really dicy with him loaning once he is in MA (how can he legally have the gun to loan it?)

So two scenarios I think.
  1. Go to an FFL and transfer ownership. That will result in the gun getting recorded with the state as a result of the transfer from the FFL to the wife
  2. Leave the status quo as is since he LOANED her the gun while he was still a NH resident and that is lawful. She is limited to using the gun for "sporting purposes" (no self defense)
 
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CrackPot said:
First and foremost "registration" does not exist in MA. There is an obligation to record transactions. It smells like registration a lot of the time, but is not in fact registration. It is not illegal to possess guns that the state does not know about. I can list no less than 5 ways you can have guns that the state does not know about.

The issue is ownership of the rifle. It was lawful for the husband to bring into the state when he moved here as long as he applied for his FID/LTC within 60 days (or maybe its 90 days, I dont want to go look it up). Since he did not, he is now in possession of a weapon w/o a license which is a problem. I assume his wife took possession and has it secured such the he has no access w/o her being present.

If they want to transfer ownership, then it will require an FFL. Any FFL that is not confused about the law will do the transfer from him to her for a fee. There is no requirement to take the gun in from a LTC/FID holder. We just need to log the gun in from name/address. You cannot transfer ownership legally in MA person to person with him not having an LTC of FID.

There is a corner case of him loaning the gun to his wife. No need to "register" since ownership did not change. The loaning would have had to occur while he was still a NH resident because it gets really dicy with him loaning once he is in MA (how can he legally have the gun to loan it?)

So two scenarios I think.
  1. Go to an FFL and transfer ownership. That will result in the gun getting recorded with the state as a result of the transfer from the FFL to the wife
  2. Leave the status quo as is since he LOANED her the gun while he was still a NH resident and that is lawful. She is limited to using the gun for "sporting purposes" (no self defense)
Click to expand...
Question, if he gets his LTC does his possession of the gun become legal, or does the fact that he didn’t do it in the required period muck that up?
 
nthat1 said:
Looking for some advice for a friend who is in a bit of a strange situation with a rifle she is in possession of. She has always been a MA resident and LTC holder, however, her husband was a NH resident for a while (long story, but that was the situation). Husband purchased and owned a rifle while he was a NH resident. He has since become a MA resident, but never got his FID or LTC. They both now live under one address, together in MA.

The wife took possession of the rifle under her LTC when the husband moved back to MA, but never ended up registering it with an FA-10 or anything. She is now worried that she is in possession of an unregistered firearm and is unsure of what to do? We would greatly appreciate any advice you all may have to offer for her.
Click to expand...
CrackPot said:
The issue is ownership of the rifle. It was lawful for the husband to bring into the state when he moved here as long as he applied for his FID/LTC within 60 days (or maybe its 90 days, I dont want to go look it up). Since he did not, he is now in possession of a weapon w/o a license which is a problem. I assume his wife took possession and has it secured such the he has no access w/o her being present.
Click to expand...

If the couple were married, living apart, and the husband purchased the rifle while married but but living apart, wouldn't it be a marital asset and as such both their rifles?
 
cathouse01 said:
Question, if he gets his LTC does his possession of the gun become legal, or does the fact that he didn’t do it in the required period muck that up?
Click to expand...
No muck up at all

I just returned a persons guns who moved to mass and it took them well over a year to get licensed because of covid - no issues at all.
 
one-eyed Jack said:
Not suggesting that you do anything illegal, but remember that if/when "they" come to take them, "they" can only take what they know you have. Jack.
Click to expand...
. . . or what they see when they demand that you open the safe in front of them and they proceed to take everything that they want to take. Remember the case where they took knives, scopes, etc. on a 209A even though some belonged to the Father who still had his LTC.
Drix said:
If the couple were married, living apart, and the husband purchased the rifle while married but but living apart, wouldn't it be a marital asset and as such both their rifles?
Click to expand...
In MA, guns aren't treated as marital assets except maybe in divorce court. Only one person can "own" the gun due to our registration (of transactions) system.
 
Ownership of the gun is still the Husband, however, if possession is strictly the Wife, there are no issues and no transfer ever needs to take place. It would be wise for the Husband to get licensed and never mention this issue to anyone, but there is nothing illegal here as is (remember IANAL) from the info we've been provided third-hand.
 
Thanks everyone. It sounds like it isn't something worth getting terribly worried over from what you're all saying. The concern was really just over the hypothetical situation that the gun gets stolen, used in a crime, used in a self defense scenario, or just examined by authorities for whatever reason and they're like "wtf, we didn't know about this gun, so how did YOU get it?", etc.

I'm aware that there is no registration in MA per se, however I am also aware that any type of "transaction" must be recorded and it's confusing whether this fits that bill.
 
CrackPot said:
First and foremost "registration" does not exist in MA. There is an obligation to record transactions. It smells like registration a lot of the time, but is not in fact registration. It is not illegal to possess guns that the state does not know about. I can list no less than 5 ways you can have guns that the state does not know about.

The issue is ownership of the rifle. It was lawful for the husband to bring into the state when he moved here as long as he applied for his FID/LTC within 60 days (or maybe its 90 days, I dont want to go look it up). Since he did not, he is now in possession of a weapon w/o a license which is a problem. I assume his wife took possession and has it secured such the he has no access w/o her being present.

If they want to transfer ownership, then it will require an FFL. Any FFL that is not confused about the law will do the transfer from him to her for a fee. There is no requirement to take the gun in from a LTC/FID holder. We just need to log the gun in from name/address. You cannot transfer ownership legally in MA person to person with him not having an LTC of FID.

There is a corner case of him loaning the gun to his wife. No need to "register" since ownership did not change. The loaning would have had to occur while he was still a NH resident because it gets really dicy with him loaning once he is in MA (how can he legally have the gun to loan it?)

So two scenarios I think.
  1. Go to an FFL and transfer ownership. That will result in the gun getting recorded with the state as a result of the transfer from the FFL to the wife
  2. Leave the status quo as is since he LOANED her the gun while he was still a NH resident and that is lawful. She is limited to using the gun for "sporting purposes" (no self defense)
Click to expand...
You say "I assume his wife took possession and has it secured such the he has no access w/o her being present." That would be be correct. However, wouldn't that count as a "transaction" and therefore should have been reported via FA-10?
 
nthat1 said:
You say "I assume his wife took possession and has it secured such the he has no access w/o her being present." That would be be correct. However, wouldn't that count as a "transaction" and therefore should have been reported via FA-10?
Click to expand...
HINT: Not if she acquired it outside of MA.
 
CrackPot said:
The issue is ownership of the rifle. It was lawful for the husband to bring into the state when he moved here as long as he applied for his FID/LTC within 60 days (or maybe its 90 days, I dont want to go look it up). Since he did not, he is now in possession of a weapon w/o a license which is a problem. I assume his wife took possession and has it secured such the he has no access w/o her being present.

If they want to transfer ownership, then it will require an FFL.
Click to expand...

Why?

Since both she and her husband are residents of the same state, there is no federal requirement to use an FFL; it is not an interstate transfer.

That would make the only requirement a state one, which is to "report the transaction".

If he's been living in Mass for more than six years, (if he gave/transferred it to her more than six years ago, really) the statute of limitations has expired, so even if a prosecutor wanted to do something, he couldn't.
 
nthat1 said:
You say "I assume his wife took possession and has it secured such the he has no access w/o her being present." That would be be correct. However, wouldn't that count as a "transaction" and therefore should have been reported via FA-10?
Click to expand...
It's only a transaction if ownership has changed. As noted, you can possess it "on loan" without changing ownership.
milktree said:
Why?

Since both she and her husband are residents of the same state, there is no federal requirement to use an FFL; it is not an interstate transfer.

That would make the only requirement a state one, which is to "report the transaction".

If he's been living in Mass for more than six years, (if he gave/transferred it to her more than six years ago, really) the statute of limitations has expired, so even if a prosecutor wanted to do something, he couldn't.
Click to expand...
Because the husband is unlicensed. If it's transferred privately, it has to be EFA-10'ed, which requires licenses for both parties. Otherwise, it needs to pass through a FFL...unless both partners are also residents of NH.
 
drgrant said:
Lol most smart people would just go *COUGH* and "the husband gifted the rifle to the wife before they moved to MA. "

But these people aren't that bright, otherwise they wouldn't have asked the OP the question.

*double facepalm*
Click to expand...
Except that according to the original question, there wasn't a time "before they moved to MA." Allegedly, she has always been a MA resident, he was temporarily a NH resident. @CrackPot's solution is perfect: as a resident of NH, husband loaned it to wife; upon moving back to MA, husband gets licensed, and reclaims it...happily ever after.
 
OP: Tell the couple to:
  1. STFU.
  2. Get the husband licensed.
  3. STFU.

milktree said:
If he's been living in Mass for more than six years, (if he gave/transferred it to her more than six years ago, really) the statute of limitations has expired, so even if a prosecutor wanted to do something, he couldn't.
Click to expand...
At least, that's the NES story; and we're sticking to it.
 
Last edited:
nthat1 said:
Looking for some advice for a friend who is in a bit of a strange situation with a rifle she is in possession of. She has always been a MA resident and LTC holder, however, her husband was a NH resident for a while (long story, but that was the situation). Husband purchased and owned a rifle while he was a NH resident. He has since become a MA resident, but never got his FID or LTC. They both now live under one address, together in MA.

The wife took possession of the rifle under her LTC when the husband moved back to MA, but never ended up registering it with an FA-10 or anything. She is now worried that she is in possession of an unregistered firearm and is unsure of what to do? We would greatly appreciate any advice you all may have to offer for her.

I have seen posts indicating that FFL's will transfer unregistered firearms from unlicensed individuals to FID/LTC holders. Is that really true? Wouldn't they be freaked out dealing with someone in that situation? Or possibly even rat on them?

FYI, the rifle is fully MA compliant.
Click to expand...
We never registered any guns in MA. Got our LTCs and put the guns in our safe. Why tell the cops what you own to assist them in future confiscation actions? Best advice is to just keep your trap shut nice and tight. This state and the socialists who control it are no friends to us gun owners.
 
CrackPot said:
First and foremost "registration" does not exist in MA. There is an obligation to record transactions. It smells like registration a lot of the time, but is not in fact registration.
Click to expand...

If you buy a gun in Mass, and the "transfer" along with the guns make, model, color and serial number is logged into a state database, which can be queried by LE agencies to ascertain who the current owner is, how is this NOT "registration" ???
 
Zappa said:
If you buy a gun in Mass, and the "transfer" along with the guns make, model, color and serial number is logged into a state database, which can be queried by LE agencies to ascertain who the current owner is, how is this NOT "registration" ???
Click to expand...
something about "technically correct" being the "best kind of correct"...
 

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