Weird unregistered gun situation?

Zappa said:
If you buy a gun in Mass, and the "transfer" along with the guns make, model, color and serial number is logged into a state database, which can be queried by LE agencies to ascertain who the current owner is, how is this NOT "registration" ???
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Because the State pinky promised they wouldn’t use it as a registration system. [rofl]
 
Zappa said:
If you buy a gun in Mass, and the "transfer" along with the guns make, model, color and serial number is logged into a state database, which can be queried by LE agencies to ascertain who the current owner is, how is this NOT "registration" ???
Click to expand...

It's not registration because there's nothing in law that says the state's records have to match reality.

Compare that to registering your car. If the state's database doesn't match reality, you get a ticket for an unregistered vehicle.

But if you have a gun the state doesn't know about, that's not illegal. It might have been a crime to fail to inform them of a transaction, but only "might". There's lots of 100% legal reasons you might have a gun the state doesn't know about, or not have a gun they think you do.

It's a more-or-less de-facto registration, because most guns' transactions *do* get reported, but it's not an *actual* registration because you can't get in trouble if the state's database is wrong.
 
Zappa said:
If you buy a gun in Mass, and the "transfer" along with the guns make, model, color and serial number is logged into a state database, which can be queried by LE agencies to ascertain who the current owner is, how is this NOT "registration" ???
Click to expand...
In NY if you have a handgun not registered to you, you get arrested. Full blown registration. In Ma it is not unlawful to have an “unregistered” handgun. At least five legal ways to have a handgun the state does not know about off the top of my head.

It smells like registration but it is still less. For now.
 
brilloexpert said:
Cut the barrel down to 8 inches, you no longer have an unregistered rifle
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On the contrary, if you do that, you absolutely have an unregistered rifle, according to the feds. And they give a shit. NFA registration is absolutely *registration*.
 
CrackPot said:
In NY if you have a handgun not registered to you, you get arrested. Full blown registration. In Ma it is not unlawful to have an “unregistered” handgun. At least five legal ways to have a handgun the state does not know about off the top of my head.

It smells like registration but it is still less. For now.
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Could you elaborate a little if you don't mind? What are the five ways?
 
clancy dogg said:
Could you elaborate a little if you don't mind? What are the five ways?
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  1. you borrowed the gun from someone
  2. you acquired the gun out of state and it is less than seven days
  3. you manufactured the gun yourself and it is less than seven days
  4. you acquired the gun prior to FA10s being required
  5. you brought the gun into the state with you when you moved in
  6. The seller failed to properly record the transaction (the burden is always on the seller and the buyer is not responsible) (could be wrong info or no info at all)
  7. The records were lost by the FRB (rotting piles of paper FA10s, etc)
So that is 7 though a couple you could merge into the same potentially. That is not even trying hard
 
CrackPot said:
  1. you borrowed the gun from someone
  2. you acquired the gun out of state and it is less than seven days
  3. you manufactured the gun yourself and it is less than seven days
  4. you acquired the gun prior to FA10s being required
  5. you brought the gun into the state with you when you moved in
  6. The seller failed to properly record the transaction (the burden is always on the seller and the buyer is not responsible) (could be wrong info or no info at all)
  7. The records were lost by the FRB (rotting piles of paper FA10s, etc)
So that is 7 though a couple you could merge into the same potentially. That is not even trying hard
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Thank you
Edit: Don't you have seven days to file after you move in as well?
 
I have a C&R and I understood that I had 7 days to register a gun after I receive it. Have I been giving the MA bureaucraps too much info?
 
ridleyman said:
I have a C&R and I understood that I had 7 days to register a gun after I receive it. Have I been giving the MA bureaucraps too much info?
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Correct. Your C&R gives you no special exemptions to MA laws. The only place your C&R helps is that a MA Dealer can transfer a C&R handgun to a C&R holder even if the gun is not on the list. It also is proof that you are a bona fide collector of machine guns if you apply for a green card (machine gun license).

No matter how you acquire a gun, you still have to register it within 7 days.
 
Simple thing to remember if you are acquiring ownership of a gun in MA you have 7 days to eFA10 it. If you already have ownership of the gun when you move to MA, or are taking possession but not ownership (e.g. borrowing it) you don’t need to do anything. It is the transaction of a MA resident taking ownership that requires an eFA10. If there is no seller, there is no ownership transaction and no need for an eFA10. Just note that if you manufacture a gun, you are in effect selling it to yourself, so in that case you are both the seller and the buyer and have to eFA10 it.
 
CrackPot said:
  1. you borrowed the gun from someone
  2. you acquired the gun out of state and it is less than seven days
  3. you manufactured the gun yourself and it is less than seven days
  4. you acquired the gun prior to FA10s being required
  5. you brought the gun into the state with you when you moved in
  6. The seller failed to properly record the transaction (the burden is always on the seller and the buyer is not responsible) (could be wrong info or no info at all)
  7. The records were lost by the FRB (rotting piles of paper FA10s, etc)
So that is 7 though a couple you could merge into the same potentially. That is not even trying hard
Click to expand...
I'll add two more.

8. Back in the days of paper FA-10s, FRB scanned in the forms. Many were illegible or OCR software mis-read info, so the seller did it right but the info in the database is wrong.
9. Paper forms stacked up and some get damaged and can't be read/scanned in. Back many years, there was a water leak that destroyed ~30K "blue cards" (private transfer FA-10s used before 1998) - this info was from a 1st hand source, the Director of FRB at that time.
CrackPot said:
If you move to the state with your guns and apply for your LTC within 60 (or maybes its 90, I never remember) days, you NEVER have to "register" those guns
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It is 60 days.
CrackPot said:
Correct. Your C&R gives you no special exemptions to MA laws. The only place your C&R helps is that a MA Dealer can transfer a C&R handgun to a C&R holder even if the gun is not on the list. It also is proof that you are a bona fide collector of machine guns if you apply for a green card (machine gun license).

No matter how you acquire a gun, you still have to register it within 7 days.
Click to expand...
One other advantage . . . I can be on vacation in Timbuckto and see a local newspaper ad of a private seller selling a C&R gun. I can buy it from that person on my C&R, register it (no source info) whenever I get back to MA (within 7 days of returning).
 
Len-2A Training said:
I'll add two more.
...
9. Paper forms stacked up and some get damaged and can't be read/scanned in. Back many years, there was a water leak that destroyed ~30K "blue cards" (private transfer FA-10s used before 1998) - this info was from a 1st hand source, the Director of FRB at that time.
Click to expand...
(I trow that was @CrackPot's "7. The records were lost by the FRB (rotting piles of paper FA10s, etc)").
 
how dose this apply to receivers? the transfer is made but no FA10, when receiver is completed there is no transfer but we are required to register it.

Long story, but I sold a Glock 22 via frame transfer at a FFL dealer, did not have the best feeling about who I was selling to, but what the hell it went through an FFL and I was happy to get rid of a Glock 22. I explained in depth the requirements to FA10 after assembly. Fast forward several months, I get a e-mail from boston PD detective about a Glock 22 found on some kid in a restaurant tucked into his sweatpants. detective calls me the next day said not to worry he already owned the frame , and there is no requirement to register something you already own. said this was confirmed by the AG, firearm experts ect.... bla,bla,bla, few month later kid got jammed up again for the pre ban mag I sold with the gun, hauld in to the PD gun confiscated for several days ect..... should have trusted my gut and the stereotype the kid was
 
AMV said:
how dose this apply to receivers? the transfer is made but no FA10, when receiver is completed there is no transfer but we are required to register it.

Long story, but I sold a Glock 22 via frame transfer at a FFL dealer, did not have the best feeling about who I was selling to, but what the hell it went through an FFL and I was happy to get rid of a Glock 22. I explained in depth the requirements to FA10 after assembly. Fast forward several months, I get a e-mail from boston PD detective about a Glock 22 found on some kid in a restaurant tucked into his sweatpants. detective calls me the next day said not to worry he already owned the frame , and there is no requirement to register something you already own. said this was confirmed by the AG, firearm experts ect.... bla,bla,bla, few month later kid got jammed up again for the pre ban mag I sold with the gun, hauld in to the PD gun confiscated for several days ect..... should have trusted my gut and the stereotype the kid was
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Not sure what you are asking. Got that you sold the gun to a moron and likely knew it.

When you sell the gun by any means there is no way it is ever "out of your name". If it was FA10ed then it will always hit on you. Even if he registers the gun after the frame transfer, it will show up and now him. You have no obligations when you turned it into a frame and sent the slide to the idiot and the frame to the dealer. There is nothing you could do or tell the state. Just write it down somewhere what you did and if it goes south give that to the police.

I give my customers a written receipt for all guns or frames or receivers I take in so they have a record.
 
CrackPot said:
Not sure what you are asking. Got that you sold the gun to a moron and likely knew it.

When you sell the gun by any means there is no way it is ever "out of your name". If it was FA10ed then it will always hit on you. Even if he registers the gun after the frame transfer, it will show up and now him. You have no obligations when you turned it into a frame and sent the slide to the idiot and the frame to the dealer. There is nothing you could do or tell the state. Just write it down somewhere what you did and if it goes south give that to the police.

I give my customers a written receipt for all guns or frames or receivers I take in so they have a record.
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what I was asking had the question mark?? How dose this apply to frames/receivers?, we have no registration in Ma correct? yet when you finish assembling your frame you are required to register it via the FA10 portal. You already own the frame so no transfer is taking place, just a strait up registration
 
AMV said:
what I was asking had the question mark?? How dose this apply to frames/receivers?, we have no registration in Ma correct? yet when you finish assembling your frame you are required to register it via the FA10 portal. You already own the frame so no transfer is taking place, just a strait up registration
Click to expand...
As far as MA is concerned since a frame/receiver by itself can’t “discharge a shot or bullet”, they aren’t considered a firearm/gun. Once you complete the frame/receiver so that it can “discharge a shot or bullet” you have “manufactured” a firearm/gun and now must eFA-10 it.
 
cathouse01 said:
As far as MA is concerned since a frame/receiver by itself can’t “discharge a shot or bullet”, they aren’t considered a firearm/gun. Once you complete the frame/receiver so that it can “discharge a shot or bullet” you have “manufactured” a firearm/gun and now must eFA-10 it
Click to expand...
Ahh.... if the law states transfer or manufacture, that would make sense
 
Zappa said:
If you buy a gun in Mass, and the "transfer" along with the guns make, model, color and serial number is logged into a state database, which can be queried by LE agencies to ascertain who the current owner is, how is this NOT "registration" ???
Click to expand...
Because it is not a criminal offense to possess a gun not in the registration database, and there are legal ways to possess a gun that is not in the system. The state would have to prove you acquired it in a manner that required registration that you, not the seller or dealer, was the one required to report the sale.

NY has handgun registration. A carry or possession permit does not cover handguns not listed on the permit (permits can span multiple plastic cards), however, in many counties more than one person can have the same gun on their permit.
 

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