Was: Mike from Titegroup enters not guilty plea - update: 5/9/14 - plead out

[hminsky]

The use of consumer protection laws to infringe on our rights is just added insult to injury. Does every tool you buy at Home Depot have to pass AG consumer protection tests before being sold here? How about appliances? Is there an AG approved list for them? More people cut their fingers off with a circular saw than shoot themselves accidentally I am sure.

 

[milktree]

Does every tool you buy at Home Depot have to pass AG consumer protection tests before being sold here? How about appliances?

Yes. If you sell a hammer that has a tendency to break, the AG will eventually make your life difficult. Look at Auto recalls, or crib recalls, or tires, or any other recall. The difference is that the AG wrote absurd requirements, and proactively investigates guns even if there's no pattern of malfunction, rather than simply waiting for a pattern of malfunction that causes harm. (the way the AG does for everything else in the realm of consumer protection)

Is there an AG approved list for them?

Technically, there isn't an AG's list for guns, either. There's a list of requirements that guns must meet, and the AG determines if the gun meets the requirements. The AG refuses to make (publish) a list.

More people cut their fingers off with a circular saw than shoot themselves accidentally I am sure.

Hey hey... don't go injecting facts into this.

However, there was a recent case where an untrained and unsupervised carpenter (I use the word loosely) who had removed all the safety equipment and failed to read the manual of a table saw cut off a couple fingers and successfully sued the manufacturer because they'd failed to put $1,000 worth of SawStop type technology in a $600 saw.

So....

 

[PaulD]

The use of consumer protection laws to infringe on our rights is just added insult to injury. Does every tool you buy at Home Depot have to pass AG consumer protection tests before being sold here? How about appliances? Is there an AG approved list for them? More people cut their fingers off with a circular saw than shoot themselves accidentally I am sure.

While I agree in general, this case wasn't about the AG consumer protection laws. It was about the EOPS list.

 

[dwarven1]

However, there was a recent case where an untrained and unsupervised carpenter (I use the word loosely) who had removed all the safety equipment and failed to read the manual of a table saw cut off a couple fingers and successfully sued the manufacturer because they'd failed to put $1,000 worth of SawStop type technology in a $600 saw.

Pity he didn't saw off his head.

 

[dwarven1]

However, there was a recent case where an untrained and unsupervised carpenter (I use the word loosely) who had removed all the safety equipment and failed to read the manual of a table saw cut off a couple fingers and successfully sued the manufacturer because they'd failed to put $1,000 worth of SawStop type technology in a $600 saw.

Pity he didn't saw off his head.

 

[OfficerObie59]

While I agree in general, this case wasn't about the AG consumer protection laws. It was about the EOPS list.

This. Sales of non-AG sanctioned guns merely results in a fine, not criminal penalties.

 

[Mark from MA]

This. Sales of non-AG sanctioned guns merely results in a fine, not criminal penalties.

Then how is he (mike) a felon, prohibited person now if its a simple non criminal fine?




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[warwickben]

Then how is he (mike) a felon, prohibited person now if its a simple non criminal fine?




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Maybe cause he sold some thing no on the approved list . A glock is on the approved list but the ag says it's not .

 

[M1911]

Then how is he (mike) a felon, prohibited person now if its a simple non criminal fine?

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There are two different requirements, both of which must be met:

1) handgun must be on EOPS list.
2) handgun must meet AG's regulations.

Violating #1 is a felony. Violating #2 is a civil violation.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Then how is he (mike) a felon, prohibited person now if its a simple non criminal fine?

Simple. Mike would sell you ANYTHING, even if it wasn't on the EOPS List and he used to brag about it. "Loose lips sink ships!" at work there.

 

[atilla]

i'm still mad about this. victimless "crime". he was a good dude and i hope he's doing well.

 

[swatgig]

This. Sales of non-AG sanctioned guns merely results in a fine, not criminal penalties.

How much is the fine? Can it simply be tacked onto the price of the gun?

I'm reminded of the old blue laws that fined stores for opening on Sundays. Some would simply open anyway and pay the $25 fine.

 

[wacky_doug]

Simple. Mike would sell you ANYTHING, even if it wasn't on the EOPS List and he used to brag about it. "Loose lips sink ships!" at work there.

Simple, and yet so wrong morally and ethically.

 

[usp45ct]

Be nice to see him get a pardon from Charlie.

 

[Admin]

Simple. Mike would sell you ANYTHING, even if it wasn't on the EOPS List and he used to brag about it. "Loose lips sink ships!" at work there.

Mike would brag about it?

 

[Len-2A Training]

i'm still mad about this. victimless "crime". he was a good dude and i hope he's doing well.

Agreed, it should never have been a law. I'm sure that he's not doing well in prison. Sad.

How much is the fine? Can it simply be tacked onto the price of the gun?

I'm reminded of the old blue laws that fined stores for opening on Sundays. Some would simply open anyway and pay the $25 fine.

$5K/gun. Not sure who would pay that "MA premium".

Be nice to see him get a pardon from Charlie.

Having met and talked with Charlie about supporting GOAL/gun rights, I seriously doubt it. I find him "slippery" like almost all other politicians.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Mike would brag about it?

Sadly, yes.

The first time I went in there was after a Marlboro gun show and he told me (we had never met before) that it was perfectly legal for him to sell (nope-felony) and anyone to own new large-cap mags. Afterwards I called Darius (Mike and he were friends) and asked him to have a chat with Mike. Sadly it didn't work.

Second time I went in there was a lunch break from our NRA Instructor class with Jon and Darius, I was with a LO from a gun-friendly MetroWest town and Mike started to go off the rails in front of him too.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Agreed, it should never have been a law. I'm sure that he's not doing well in prison. Sad.

I think Mike got a no-jail time but lifetime felon/pp plea day and paid about $6000 in fines.

Standard technique for many non-violent offenses that have potential jail time is to offer a no jail time plea deal, where the defendant knows the penalty for demanding a trial may very well be time in the big house. Even if one is not guilty, that can be a hard deal to turn down.

 

[jasons]

There used to be a guy on NES who would PM anyone who asked about getting a Glock or whatever and tell them about TG. I never met Mike so I don't know if he "bragged" or not, but there were plenty of people bragging for him.

 

[milktree]

He told me once, "I'll transfer anything to you that you feel comfortable carrying out the door." It wasn't really *bragging*, more like a statement of fact. At the time I thought he sussed up and vetted the customers he said that to, but apparently not.

 

[willbdavis]

Mike wasn't lacking in personality. He was a fellow student for the NRA Range Safety Officer course I took at GOAL.

 

[wacky_doug]

I still think this is a big pile of bullshit. Victimless "crime" created by MA politicians.

 

[hminsky]

I think the best thing is to stop flogging this thread and just donate to Comm2A with Mike in mind.

 

[drgrant]

I think the best thing is to stop flogging this thread and just donate to Comm2A with Mike in mind.

This.... plus a billion.