Vote YES on Question #1

[Admin]

And at my local supermarket, there is a liquor store directly next to the supermarket! How ruthless to dip into their profits. These families who live off their small liquor store end up spending money at the supermarket on their food bills just like the rest of us. Thus, the endless cycle of supermaret profits.

That's funny the supermarket next to the liquor store in Gardner sells wine and the liquor store is doing just fine...

YAY big government!

 

[Shane]

That's funny the supermarket next to the liquor store in Gardner sells wine and the liquor store is doing just fine...

YAY big government!

I doubt their fine. In fact I bet they can't afford to buy their toddler a tricycle this Christmas. The horror.

 

[drgrant]

I doubt their fine. In fact I bet they can't afford to buy their toddler a tricycle this Christmas. The horror.

Then please explain to us how all the random liquor stores in most of the
US survive? You forget that most of the US does not have these crazy
laws like we do here. CA has wine and beer in most grocery stores and
there are still tons of smaller package stores in business. Hell, I think they
even sell alcohol at some 7-11s there.

-Mike

 

[Shane]

Would you be opposed to Supermarkets selling Marijuana??

 

[C-pher]

I know of a Mobil station which sells beer and maybe wine. Sure, maybe they already have a "liquor store license", but why can't the grocery stores get this?

No one can explain how this changes with this passing.

There are a few supermarkets, Big Y and Price Chopper, near me that sell beer, wine and Liquor. So why do they sell Liquor but other stores can not. I don't get it.

Yep, I don't either, but no one can seem to explain this to me.

Then please explain to us how all the random liquor stores in most of the
US survive? You forget that most of the US does not have these crazy
laws like we do here. CA has wine and beer in most grocery stores and
there are still tons of smaller package stores in business. Hell, I think they
even sell alcohol at some 7-11s there.

-Mike

Yea, back in the NOLA area, you can get liquor in the local Exxon station.


I'm just trying to figure out what this changes. It's still the local gov't that's going to say if they can get them or not.

From what I understand, they already can have a liquor licence from the state. So if this passes, it's MORE control by the government...not less.

But still, no one can explain what this changes. Other than Groceries can sell wine. Which I've been to MANY and they already do...

 

[JimB]

we don't teach control

in this country we teach prohibition instead of moderation. my father would
always hand me a shot glass of beer, i hated it, but it was if i wanted available to me. Other countries laugh at us because "we prohibit"
so our children being deprived of the evil want it more.

JimB

 

[SiameseRat]

Then please explain to us how all the random liquor stores in most of the
US survive? You forget that most of the US does not have these crazy
laws like we do here. CA has wine and beer in most grocery stores and
there are still tons of smaller package stores in business. Hell, I think they
even sell alcohol at some 7-11s there.

-Mike

I'm from Long Island. If you want beer or cheap wine you go to the supermarket, 7-11 or gas station. If you want good wine or liquor, you go to the liquor store. My ex-boyfriend works in one of the liquor stores. On a Saturday they'd do an average of $8-10k. Yes, one day.

On Long Island, liquor stores literally DO NOT sell beer. I have never seen beer inside a liquor store there. Yet they do fine. I don't see how this bill will truly hurt local liquor stores since supermarkets will mostly sell Boone's Farm and Gallo, except for the really distinguished wine drinkers, who will buy Yellow Tail...

 

[Admin]

Would you be opposed to Supermarkets selling Marijuana??

Go away

 

[Martlet]

Would you be opposed to Supermarkets selling Marijuana??

No, if it was legal. I wouldn't be opposed to them selling motorcycle helmets, socket wrenches, or weather vanes either.

Oh wait, did you have a point?

I'm far more concerned with grocery stores selling the Soap Opera Digest than I am wine. Do people actually sit on their fat ass and read that?

 

[K-DUB]

I intend to vote for it, but if it puts your local liquor store out of business, who is going to stock the more expensive or unusual wines? Supermarkets will only carry commercial stuff. Kind of like buying ammo at Walmart. Sure, you can get Winchester white box, but no Federal hydra-shock...

I also intend to vote for it. In the states I've been to that already allow this, there's NO shortage of small liquor stores, & they seem to be doing quite well, dispite the grocery stores selling wine, & beer in some cases.

I tend to vote for anything that gives the decision back to the people, rather than allowing the gov't. to regulate every little thing we do.

 

[K-DUB]

Go away

 

[C-pher]

I tend to vote for anything that gives the decision back to the people, rather than allowing the gov't. to regulate every little thing we do.

See, I'm under the impression that this is giving MORE control to the Government. As Lynne said, her town is already saying that they aren't going to let the stores sell if this passes. Right now, don't you just have to go to the state to get a liquor license?

If this passes, then you not only have to get approval from the state, you ALSO have to get approval from the local government as well...

How is this LESS government control?

It's funny how you all are dodging these questions...

 

[Admin]

If this passes, then you not only have to get approval from the state, you ALSO have to get approval from the local government as well...

Which has always been the case for any liquor store. What is your point socialist?

 

[C-pher]

LOL! You people keep saying that this cuts control by the government.

This bill says that you now will have to get approval from the local government.

You say that this is already happening now. So, WHAT DOES THIS BILL CHANGE?

I'm not saying that I'm voting no. I'm just wanting to know what this changes. Again, no one will tell me.

The more you people talk, the more that this changes nothing if it passes. Other than it's making up MORE laws. Which everyone on here seems to say that they don't want.

You all are doging more questions that someone on DU that doesn't have an answer. I'm waiting for you to start calling me a nazi.

 

[Admin]

Communist

Vote no on #1

 

[C-pher]

Me: "I have a question about this bill."

You: "Shut up and vote for it Hippy."

Me: "Why? What does this change?"

You: "It makes free enterprise, kommie"

Me: "How? They already can have beer, wine, and liquor. What's this change."

You: "Because you're a socialist."

Me: "What? You're not answering my question."

You: "You're a red kommie!"

Me: "Huh? I'm trying to understand this bill. This is now letting local government stop the store from getting it if they want."

You: "Shut up Hippy, you're asking too many questions."

 

[Admin]

You: "Shut up and vote for it Hippy."

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If this passes, then you not only have to get approval from the state, you ALSO have to get approval from the local government as well...

How is this LESS government control?

By this logic, a complete ban on gun posession would reduce the power of government as the local police chief would no longer be able to decide if you are suitable.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

There are a few supermarkets, Big Y and Price Chopper, near me that sell beer, wine and Liquor. So why do they sell Liquor but other stores can not. I don't get it.

Each corporation may hole only 3 liquor licenses statewide.

 

[Homer]

Question 1 creates a new type of license for wine only for "food stores" which have several requirements (ie they must sell produce, fresh meat, poultry...).

It removes the "3 licenses only statewide" for larger supermarket chains and makes it "not more than 10% statewide".

Some convenience stores in my hometown and elsewhere (ie White hen, Richdale) have beer and wine licenses already so the "no to convenience store alchohol" campaign is quite misleading.

Each town will get a minimum of 5 of these licenses with an additional 1 per 5,oo0 population. Gloucester for instance will now have 11 "wine only " licenses should question 1 pass as it has 30,000 residents.

This question is about more competition but hardly about removing control from the government. The licensing authority will still have a say how many, if any, of these licenses they will give out.

This will not kill small liquor stores much as Home Depot didn't kill off small hardware and paint stores. (I worked in one for 15 years with a Home Depot just across the border in tax free New hampshire and we not only survived, we thrived)

I voted for this as it is a question of convenience and competition, neither of which is a bad thing.

 

[Len-2A Training]

No time to go into great detail, but here's the short of it.

C-pher, sorry friend but you are showing your IGNORANCE of the current as well as proposed law!!

- ALL LIQUOR/BEER/WINE Licenses MUST be approved by the city/town FIRST. THEN said application is forwarded to the STATE for approval or denial (they do background checks on all individuals who are executives in the corp asking for the license).

- If the town does NOT approve the license, the application is DENIED and the State can't over-ride that. This is the way it is NOW AND the way it WOULD be if Q1 Passes! NO CHANGE!

- WINE ONLY LICENSES would be a NEW category of license (currently they issue Wine/Beer OR ALL Liquor licenses only) available to grocery stores that QUALIFY and are TOWN APPROVED (FIRST).

- Current Licensees are NOT AFFECTED IN ANY WAY if this passes.

- ALL WINE/BEER/LIQUOR PRICES IN MA ARE STATE CONTROLLED! The Wholesale prices are dictated by the state and the RETAIL prices are also dictated by the state. There is a huge book listing all this info. Whether it is sold at 7-11 or your "Gold Medal Liquors" there is a "minimum retail price" that the dealers can NOT legally go under (there are sale prices at times).

- ALL CLERKS that sell Wine/Beer/Liquor MUST attend some state-mandated classes to learn about fake IDs, learn about the penalties for selling to underaged kids, etc. There is also a minimum age before you can serve/sell liquor of any type, so 15 yo kids won't be able to sell it at the 7-11 . . . in spite of the TV ads.

If I want advice about product (whether it is wine or Chateaubriand), I go to a specialty store (liquor store in this case).

If I KNOW what I want and need it quickly while I'm shopping, the local supermarket is fine.

MOST times that I'm buying wine, I value the expertise of the store owner and thus would still buy most wine at a regular wine shop.

I do NOT see this as adversely affecting current wine/liquor stores.

 

[C-pher]

Question 1 creates a new type of license for wine only for "food stores" which have several requirements (ie they must sell produce, fresh meat, poultry...).

It removes the "3 licenses only statewide" for larger supermarket chains and makes it "not more than 10% statewide".

Some convenience stores in my hometown and elsewhere (ie White hen, Richdale) have beer and wine licenses already so the "no to convenience store alchohol" campaign is quite misleading.

Each town will get a minimum of 5 of these licenses with an additional 1 per 5,oo0 population. Gloucester for instance will now have 11 "wine only " licenses should question 1 pass as it has 30,000 residents.

This question is about more competition but hardly about removing control from the government. The licensing authority will still have a say how many, if any, of these licenses they will give out.

This will not kill small liquor stores much as Home Depot didn't kill off small hardware and paint stores. (I worked in one for 15 years with a Home Depot just across the border in tax free New hampshire and we not only survived, we thrived)

I voted for this as it is a question of convenience and competition, neither of which is a bad thing.

Thank you, that's what I've been looking for. Someone to tell me what exactly is going on with this law. I guess that I'm confused because I'm pretty sure that I've been to more than three S&S's that have had wine, beer, and liquor.

And I know that there are many quicky marts that have beer...so I'm guessing that they are exempt.

But while you're hardware store did good, I can't say that's it's like that for all small guys. I've seen them open 2 Lowe's and a Home Depot close to where I live. From that, I've seen two Ace Hardware's and One True Value close. The only one that's still open is an Arb's over in Plainville.

C-pher, sorry friend but you are showing your IGNORANCE of the current as well as proposed law!!

Thank you Len, but when I've been saying the whole time that I don't understand the difference of how it works now and how it changes...I don't call that showing Ignorance. I see it as trying to find out how it works so I can make a defined decision.



But I forget. I'm a kommie red socialist hippy.

 

[Len-2A Training]

C-pher, have you tried reading the actual text and explanation in that little red book delivered to EVERY household in MA? Or stacked up on the counter at every USPO in MA?

It's put out by the Secretary of State's Office IIRC and explains both sides of the issues on the ballot questions. It's not great, but does an adequate job.

 

[C-pher]

See, if you say that it was sent to every house, but I've never seen it...and I don't go to the PO, so I haven't picked one up.

I would still like to see this little red book. So I'm going to have to go and see if I can find one.

 

[Dick]

See, if you say that it was sent to every house, but I've never seen it...and I don't go to the PO, so I haven't picked one up.

I would still like to see this little red book. So I'm going to have to go and see if I can find one.

You can save yourself a trip by going to the Secretary of State's web site here: http://www.sec.state.ma.us/ele/elepip/pipidx.htm where you can get the actual full text of all the questions along with (obviously biased) statements from proponents and opponents about why you should/shouldn't vote for the question.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Q1 - Summary of proposed law from:
http://www.sec.state.ma.us/ele/elepip/pipa.htm

An Initiative Petition for a Law
This proposed law would allow local licensing authorities to issue licenses for food stores to sell wine. The proposed law defines a “food store” as a retail vendor, such as a grocery store, supermarket, shop, club, outlet, or warehouse-type seller, that sells food to consumers to be eaten elsewhere (which must include meat, poultry, dairy products, eggs, fresh fruit and produce, and other specified items), and that may sell other items usually found in grocery stores. Holders of licenses to sell wine at food stores could sell wine either on its own or together with any other items they sell.

The licensing authorities in any city or town of up to 5000 residents could issue up to 5 licenses for food stores to sell wine. In cities or towns of over 5000 residents, one additional license could be issued for each additional 5000 residents (or fraction of 5000). No person or business could hold more than 10% of the total number of the licenses that could be issued under the proposed law. Such licenses would not be counted when applying the laws that limit the number of other kinds of alcoholic beverage licenses that may be issued or held. Any applicant for a license would have to be approved by the state Alcoholic Beverages Control Commission, and any individual applicant would have to be at least 21 years old and not have been convicted of a felony.

In issuing any licenses for food stores to sell wine, local licensing authorities would have to use the same procedures that apply to other licenses for the retail sale of alcoholic beverages. Except where the proposed law has different terms, the same laws that apply to issuance, renewal, suspension and termination of licenses for retail sales of alcoholic beverages which are not to be consumed on the seller’s premises, and that apply to the operations of holders of such licenses, would govern licenses to sell wine at food stores, and the operation of holders of such licenses. Local authorities could set fees for issuing and renewing such licenses.

Here's the In Favor argument from the Sec of State's website (and red booklet), info provided by the proponents.

IN FAVOR: Today, consumers in 34 states can buy wine at grocery stores. But in Massachusetts, a 72-year-old law prevents most grocery stores from selling wine – and creates a virtual monopoly for package stores.

Voting “yes” on Question 1 will:

Bring Massachusetts up to date, by giving cities and towns the local option to issue wine-only licenses to qualified grocery stores.
Save consumers an estimated $26 to $36 million every year, by allowing more competition and consumer choice in wine sales.
The liquor lobby and its allies use scare tactics and false claims against this measure. The truth is, they just want to protect the current package store monopoly system.

Other states allow grocery stores to sell wine without any problems. There’s no legitimate reason why Massachusetts consumers shouldn’t be allowed to buy wine at their local grocery stores.

Vote “yes” for consumer choice and fair competition in wine sales.

Authored by:
YES on 1:
Grocery Stores and Consumers for Fair Competition
31 Milk Street, Suite 518
Boston, MA 02109
(800) 817-3507
www.WineAtFoodStores.com

Regrettably, I do not find the full text of the actual proposed law on the website (it is in the little red booklet). That gives a lot more useful info IMNSHO as to why this ought to pass.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Full Text of Proposed Law from Proponents Website (also published in little red booklet):
http://wineatgrocerystores.com/read.php

Full text of the Wine At Food Stores Initiative:

"AN ACT TO INCREASE CONSUMER CONVENIENCE AND CHOICE BY PERMITTING FOOD STORES TO SELL WINE"
Downloads
Download Initiative

Requires Adobe Acrobat
Be it enacted by the People, and by their authority as follows:

Chapter one hundred and thirty-eight of the General Laws is hereby amended by inserting the following section:

Section 15B. An additional class of licenses allowing the sale of wine at food stores is hereby created. These licenses shall be known as "wine-at-food-store licenses" and may be issued at the discretion of local licensing authorities following the procedures set forth in section fifteen A of this chapter. For purposes of this section "food store" shall mean a grocery store, shop, supermarket, warehouse-type seller, club, outlet, or other seller, which sells at retail food for consumption off the seller's premises either alone or in combination with grocery items or other nondurable items typically found in a grocery store, provided such items are sold to individuals for their own personal, family, or household use; and provided further, that such food store must carry fresh or processed meat, poultry, dairy products, eggs, fresh fruit and produce, baked goods and baking ingredients, canned goods and dessert items.

Local licensing authorities may issue wine-at-food-store licenses to individuals or business entities duly organized under the laws of the Commonwealth or any other state, provided the applicant is approved by the commission; and provided further that any individual applicant is twenty-one years of age or older and has not been convicted of a felony. No license holder may hold more than ten percent of the total number of wine-at-food-store licenses this section authorizes local authorities to issue throughout the commonwealth, but wine-at-food-store licenses shall not be considered in applying any limits on the number of licenses this chapter otherwise authorizes applicants to hold or local licensing authorities to issue. Irrespective of the number of other licenses issued under this chapter by a city or town's licensing authorities, the local licensing authorities in any city or town are authorized, in their discretion, to issue up to five wine-at-food-store licenses and, in any city or town with more than five thousand residents, to issue one additional such license for each additional population unit of five thousand or any fraction thereof residing in that city or town. Holders of such licenses may sell wine alone or in combination with any other item or items they offer for sale.

Except as expressly provided in this section, the provisions of law applicable to the issuance, renewal, suspension, and termination of licenses issued pursuant to section fifteen and the regulation of and operation by such license holders shall apply to wine-at-food-store licenses and license holders. The amount of any initial or renewal fee for such a license shall be determined by the local licensing authorities issuing or renewing that license.

More info on Why Yes from Proponents website:
http://wineatgrocerystores.com/facts.php

Information About Question 1:
The Massachusetts Wine At Food Stores Initiative
Downloads
Download Fact Sheet

Requires Adobe Acrobat
Question 1 lets Massachusetts voters decide for themselves if they want the option to buy wine at grocery stores.
Today, consumers in most states can buy wine at their local grocery stores. But in Massachusetts, a 72-year-old law still prevents most grocery stores from selling wine — and gives liquor stores a virtual monopoly on wine sales. This outdated law unfairly limits competition and consumer choice and allows liquor stores to charge higher prices for wine.

In fact, liquor stores now control over 85% of the wine sold at stores statewide. As a result, Massachusetts consumers pay an estimated $26 to $36 million each year in higher wine prices.

For decades, the liquor store lobby has blocked any legislation that would allow fair competition in wine sales. Question 1 on the November 2006 statewide ballot lets Massachusetts voters decide for themselves if they want to be able to purchase wine at their local grocery stores. This simple, common sense measure will bring Massachusetts up to date by giving cities and towns the local option to issue wine-only licenses to qualified grocery stores.

Voting YES on 1 will allow grocery stores to get a locally-approved license to sell wine.
Question 1, the Wine at Food Stores Initiative, will allow town and city officials to issue wine-only licenses to qualified grocery stores. These licenses only apply to wine — not beer or liquor. And, they are only for food stores that clearly qualify as a grocery store.

The measure specifies that the license is only for food stores that sell the range of food products “typically found in a grocery store,” including “meat, poultry, dairy products, eggs, fresh fruit and produce, baked goods and baking ingredients, canned goods and dessert items.” Thus, these wine licenses do not apply to convenience stores or other stores that simply sell some food items.

In addition to being approved by local officials, each license must be approved by the state Alcoholic Beverages Control Commission. Grocery stores that get approval for wine licenses will pay annual fees set by local officials to cover local enforcement costs and state taxes to cover state enforcement costs.

The facts show there’s no legitimate reason to prohibit consumers from buying wine at grocery stores.
Wine is normally consumed with meals and most states allow consumers to buy wine when they shop for food at their local grocery stores. It simply makes sense to allow Massachusetts grocery stores to sell wine if they get local and state approval for a wine license and obey the law.

Naturally, the liquor store lobby and its political allies oppose Question 1. They are mounting an absurd scare campaign against Question 1 because they want to protect the current liquor store monopoly system. But the facts show that there is no legitimate reason to prohibit Massachusetts consumers from purchasing wine at grocery stores.

For example, state and national law enforcement statistics show that grocery stores are as good or better at enforcing minimum age requirements and other laws as package stores. Moreover, liquor stores haven’t been put out of business in the 34 other states that allow grocery stores to sell wine — and consumers there enjoy more choices in where they shop for wine and pay lower prices.

YES on 1 will increase consumer choice and save consumers time and money.
The current 72-year-old liquor store monopoly system that prevents most Massachusetts grocery stores from selling wine is totally outdated. Most states already allow grocery stores to sell wine. And, consumers can also buy wine over the Internet. It’s time to bring Massachusetts up to date.

Voting YES on 1 will allow fair competition and consumer choice — and save consumers time and money.

 

[Admin]

Hippy...

 

[MarkM]

The way I see it is that you have all given up on a Republican governor so you want easier access to alcohol to drown your sorrows

Personally I was happy to leave NJ and come to NH where I can get wine at the grocery store or the gas station if I need some. I just wish NH was like other states I have lived where I could get liquor there as well.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Dissecting the Anti-Wine Sales Scare Tactics

OK, now let's look at this question logically (sorry, I always try to be logical)!

Teenyboppers buying WINE illegally at local 7-11s:

• Please ask yourself how old you were before you went to a liquor store (or had a buddy buy it for you, if you were underage) and bought WINE (NOT beer)?
  
  1. Ask yourself how many young people (21 and under) really go looking to drink WINE (NOT beer)?
     
  2. Ask yourself how old you were before YOU chose WINE over beer?
     
  3. Now, please think how illogical the argument is that a 7-11 or grocery store that ONLY is allowed to sell WINE is going to knuckle under to some 17 yo who tries to purchase WINE for dinner?
     
  4. Sorry this dog doesn't hunt!!

Young Store Clerks:

• Yes, youngsters currently work in the 7-11s and gas station marts, etc.
  1. HOWEVER, MGLs already requires that ANYONE who sells alcohol or cigarettes MUST be "certified" and attend training classes on what to look for on IDs (fake vs. real), penalties (both personally and to the business) of selling to underage kids, etc.
     
  2. MGLs already have a minimum age for ANYONE selling or serving alcohol in any establishment.
     
  3. So, some of those very young clerks may not be able to work at the local 7-11 any more or the 7-11 will require one adult to be on duty to sell the alcohol for every shift. I've seen this in some other stores that also sold alcohol (I had to go thru a special line as not all the checkout girls were of age).
     
  4. Sorry, this dog don't hunt either!

The picture of all the MCOPA brass reminds me of all the anti-gun rhetoric. I wonder if they didn't take the pictures for the ads at the same time, economy of scale: Have Rosenthal and the Brady Bunch in front for one set of pictures and then slide in the "Vote NO" crowd for the next set of photo-op pics!

The Vote No ads are very cagey, using terms like "selling alcohol" instead of "selling wine" to get people scared of teenyboppers going in getting a couple of six packs of beer with their $3 in gas and driving while drinking. Yup, I can just see some 17 yo going in and asking for a Chardonnay to go with his gas and cigarettes!!

Sorry, same basic scare tactics as used for Licensing gun owners, the blood will run in the streets, thousands will die, etc., ad nauseum!

If you fall for this rhetoric, you might as well vote for Coakley and Patrick to complete the package.

As for putting small package stores out of business, NOT BLOODY LIKELY! Not as long as they sell beer for the couch potato crowd, hard stuff for the party crowd, and can actually give advice on wine to those planning house parties!