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Violate Your Oath And Turn On American Citizens At Your Legal Peril, Gun-Grabbers

daekken said:
I've spoken to more than one MSP officer who basically agreed with the "my life is #1 concern" notion. I don't know if I blame them. One used the equivalent of "shoot first, ask questions later."

There's no doubt there will be police and military on each side. For some reason, part of me thinks there will be more mil guys on the "good" side.

I don't know if "most" police will be on the good team. I think the overwhelming majority just want to retire and collect a pension and do their equivalent to 9-5. Not bad guys, but not running around screaming "SHALL....NOT..." either. All you gotta do is look up one of the facebook posts where a PD gloats about boning some dude over a gun that's not locked up or something to realize they are not all your friends.

Good and bad apples in all disciplines.
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You'd have to look at how many ex-.mil are in the police forces. How many of them will remember oaths that don't have an expiration date.

I swore to defend a piece of paper, not a politician or thought.

Simple fact:
There are about 2-3 million .mil and police in this country. How many people would they be fighting against and where. There is no way the government would ever go door to door. They would start by pulling people over with known CCW's and things like that to find the gun owners. That would start a cascade of bad situations.

10k 'freedom fighters' had our entire military running in circles. What would a million Americans do to our military? There are more 'former' SEALs than there are current SEALs. There are more 'former' Green Berets than there are current Green Berets. Those tanks have to stop at some point. A-10s can only fly so long. I could personally crew an A-10 from maintenance to rearming with just people I know. I don't know about the rest of you.
 
enbloc said:
No good can come of this thread...
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For sure...

bucket


Bob
 
robjax said:
no cop will do anything to jeopardize their paycheck or pension. If they are ordered to take weapons they will follow the orders. And they will be exempt from any prosecution and if anyone resits they are an instant felon. It's called tyranny and oppression.
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Your paycheck and pension is useless if you're dead. I predict that once they start meeting stiff resistance, they won't be so tough.
 
falcon123 said:
Your paycheck and pension is useless if you're dead. I predict that once they start meeting stiff resistance, they won't be so tough.
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I'd prefer for these radical extremist pols to just shut up and get a civilian job somewhere in Antartica. The courts are useless and we will lose our rights on paper. And has been done before they will get us one at a time. Of course they will arrive in force most likely in the middle of the night.
 
greencobra said:
gonna take a poke in the dark here and say the "other side" can't come out and play...they gotta work.
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That's another thing. They could roll up on someone at work knowing they'd be busy and maybe carrying one concealed gun. It's easier for them than raiding the house....
 
308rifleman said:
IRA did what you are describing over the course of more than three decades, quite successfully, during that period in Northern Ireland's history known as "The Troubles". A lot of RUC cops and British troops ended up in cemeteries. Their families were also targeted.
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They were a relatively small force as well.

"Numerical strength[edit]
It is unclear how many people joined the IRA during the troubles, however in the early to mid-1970s, the numbers recruited by the IRA may have reached several thousand. Official membership reduction coincided with the adoption by the IRA in 1979 of a 'cell structure' in an attempt to counter security force penetration through the use of informers.[211] In addition to members in Ireland the IRA also had one or two 'active service units' in Britain and mainland Europe.[211]

An RUC report of 1986 estimated that the IRA had 300 or so members in Active Service Units and up to 750 active members in total in Northern Ireland.[55] This does not take into consideration the IRA units in the Republic of Ireland or those in Britain, continental Europe, and throughout the world. In 2005, the then Irish Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Michael McDowell told the Dáil that the organisation had "between 1,000 and 1,500" active members.[212]

According to the book The Provisional IRA (by Eamon Mallie and Patrick Bishop), roughly 8,000 people passed through the ranks of the IRA in the first 20 years of its existence, many of them leaving after arrest, "retirement" or disillusionment.[194] In later years, the IRA's strength has been somewhat weakened by members leaving the organisation to join hardline splinter groups such as the Continuity IRA and the Real IRA. According to former Irish Minister for Justice Michael McDowell, these organisations have little more than 150 members each.[212]

According to Sinn Féin MLA Gerry Kelly speaking in an interview with Rowan Hand in October 2013 he said about 30,000 members passed through the ranks of the IRA between 1969 and 1997 with most leaving after a short period of time.[213]"

Provisional Irish Republican Army - Wikipedia
 
I think "both sides" are wrong in their estimates.
I know many on the left who think there would be little, if any resistance, and it would be swiftly crushed.
I know others on the right that think there would be massive resistance where "most" people resist.

I suspect there would be more resistance (and more prolonged) than the left thinks, but still a pretty small minority--not that such a minority couldn't make things unpleasant for those imposing tyranny.
 
daekken said:
I think "both sides" are wrong in their estimates.
I know many on the left who think there would be little, if any resistance, and it would be swiftly crushed.
I know others on the right that think there would be massive resistance where "most" people resist.

I suspect there would be more resistance (and more prolonged) than the left thinks, but still a pretty small minority--not that such a minority couldn't make things unpleasant for those imposing tyranny.
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History has shown it wouldn't have to be especially big.
 
When it all goes down will it go down in a manner that gives the average cop a clear cut, single decision on whether to respect the constitution or violate it? Or will it be a whole lot more complex than that?

At the end of the day cops are the enforcers of The State, the perceived keepers of law and order who walk around day in and day out with power and authority over almost everything around them. Certainly over us “civilians” (I know, they’re civs too). You really think half of them are going to hand in their gun and their badge when a crisis hits and the order comes down to lock things down? You think they’ll be thinking of some Nuremberg shit? They’re going to “just follow orders” straight through to the end, as most have throughout history. Expect it, and be pleasantly surprised in the unlikely event that they don’t.
 
new guy said:
When it all goes down will it go down in a manner that gives the average cop a clear cut, single decision on whether to respect the constitution or violate it? Or will it be a whole lot more complex than that?

At the end of the day cops are the enforcers of The State, the perceived keepers of law and order who walk around day in and day out with power and authority over almost everything around them. Certainly over us “civilians” (I know, they’re civs too). You really think half of them are going to hand in their gun and their badge when a crisis hits and the order comes down to lock things down? You think they’ll be thinking of some Nuremberg shit? They’re going to “just follow orders” straight through to the end, as most have throughout history. Expect it, and be pleasantly surprised in the unlikely event that they don’t.
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Man, you are a slow learner![wave][laugh]

It will never come down to police knocking. YOU will be knocking. No mortgage, no driver's license, no job, no school for your kids....You will dump your toys into a designated dumpster behind the police station, get your stamp on your paperwork and that will be the end of your heroism.

You may also enter a rehab in order to get rid of those pesky red flags all over your credit and citizenship ratings. That would be the Chinese style our MA commies admire so much.

You have no chance. Don't be silly or naive.
 
I don’t expect to have any chance. That’s the point. Not around here anyway.

It won’t be a sudden seizure, it will be a steady, systemic dismantling. People with too much to lose will do what they have to do in order to avoid losing it. The cops won’t revolt because it will be too incremental, too complicated, and too easy to rationalize going along with.
 
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10thSFFD said:
Man, you are a slow learner![wave][laugh]

It will never come down to police knocking. YOU will be knocking. No mortgage, no driver's license, no job, no school for your kids....You will dump your toys into a designated dumpster behind the police station, get your stamp on your paperwork and that will be the end of your heroism.

You may also enter a rehab in order to get rid of those pesky red flags all over your credit and citizenship ratings. That would be the Chinese style our MA commies admire so much.

You have no chance. Don't be silly or naive.
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Except that this isn't hive-minded China.
 
I do not relish the thought of battling the police. They are Us, with families and lives and hopes.

My best wish is that if a Confiscation Order ever came down, we could non-violently get them to stand-down and get their support as we change things politically.

The ball is in their court at that point. I hope they make the Right Decision...

~Enbloc
 
the thing is they have organization and structure. We do not. Unless we organize and plan for such events we will be very easy to conquer using all the techniques described above.

people don't plan to fail....they fail to plan. and as a group of constitutional and 2A supporters I have not been privy to a plan.
 
robjax said:
the thing is they have organization and structure. We do not. Unless we organize and plan for such events we will be very easy to conquer using all the techniques described above.

people don't plan to fail....they fail to plan. and as a group of constitutional and 2A supporters I have not been privy to a plan.
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Too much organization is actually a liability.
 
If you haven't read the book "Ordinary men" then at least listen to Jocko Podcast where they cover the book. Think of it this way, majority of LEO's are on the "same team" and care much more for their brother in arms than they do about the general public. Apologies to any LEO's on the forum but it's a natural human condition. You can't spend that much time around the same people and not put them in an elevated status against others.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXx3AsF0E5M
 
10thSFFD said:
Man, you are a slow learner![wave][laugh]

It will never come down to police knocking. YOU will be knocking. No mortgage, no driver's license, no job, no school for your kids....You will dump your toys into a designated dumpster behind the police station, get your stamp on your paperwork and that will be the end of your heroism.

You may also enter a rehab in order to get rid of those pesky red flags all over your credit and citizenship ratings. That would be the Chinese style our MA commies admire so much.

You have no chance. Don't be silly or naive.
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Unfortunately, I think that this would be our reality. There are only 2 things that we could do. Move somewhere else (which I am planning anyway), or cyber attacks. There has to be a way to destroy their records .
 
PaulR said:
It will be the death of a thousands cuts and they'll have us so backed into a corner, most all of us will cave.

Personally I see it coming state by state through drivers licenses: You want to have a car on the road in MA, you want to drive? Well then you need to turn in your guns or you don't get a drivers license.
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I guess I will be Pablo from Argentina, me habla no inglesh, me need no license.

Everyone remember how willing and eager Louisiana cops were disarming people after Katrina?
 
Kiwis handed in 700 weapons out of 1.5 mil. That's < 0.5% compliance ratio, in New Zealand. How many bump stocks have been handed in so far?

Suppose 99.9% people bend their knees when the pressure mount, but the 0.1%, out of 48 million gun-owning households, which is 48,000 households decided dying on feet is better than living on knees.

I'll let you play out the what if's...
 
Whatever happens I don't think any of us, or them, can predict more than 2 minutes after it starts with any accuracy. Something about "No battle plan, however wrll conceived, ever survives first contact with the enemy". Also, even in Nazi Germany, Stalin's Russia or any other oppressive government, there were always people in all levels of government working behind the scenes to overthrow said oppressive regimes. They weren't always obviously effective or successful, but I doubt anybody thinks they didn't hasten the fall.
 
snax said:
I guess I will be Pablo from Argentina, me habla no inglesh, me need no license.

Everyone remember how willing and eager Louisiana cops were disarming people after Katrina?
Click to expand...

But there have been court decisions since then which ostensibly prevent recurrence of that happening again.

Before this thread gets too far off the rails, let's stick to the theoretical "Beto's Plan" to, ahem, "Hell yes we're going to elimininate ARs and AKs from society."

Imho we need to keep pushing back with "Or what?"

Them: Give up the guns, please.

Us: Or what?

Them: We'll impose fines!

Us: And if we don't pay the fine? Then what?

And again, and again.

OR. WHAT?
 
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SpaceCritter said:
Except that this isn't hive-minded China.
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This has nothing to do with China. This is a global development. Our country is no different from any other large countries in that specific aspect. We are not unified and we have been puzzified in the last few decades.

This is a very slow but very steady process. It has following steps:
1. Register owners
2. Register their purchases
3. Create new rules
4. Limit purchases
5. Limit licences
6. Confiscate

This process takes about 50-60 years but it works like a charm. The only way to avoid confiscations is to avoid steps 1 to 5. Everything else is a planned failure.
 
image.jpeg
This^^^^^^^^^^
image.jpeg

Will become this^^^^^^^^^^

image.jpeg

When 10,000 Americans start dressing up like this ^^^^^^^^and start hunting.......from every woods, every hillside, every open window, every crossroad and every goon's driveway.

When government declares war on the American people, EVERYBODY is joining the game.....there will be no exceptions.
Choose wisely.
 

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