Update on Blended Learning

[Len-2A Training]

This is absolutely incorrect. I have had it confirmed from the NRA that as an NRA instructor you are prohibited from teaching the old basic pistol course any longer.
I don't want to rehash the status of the blended course, read the prior posts.

I've seen that in writing by no less than John Howard himself. He said his legal department is watching closely and will take action on those that go off the reservation.

I don't think anything is incorrect. I'm not saying the NRA is ok with anyone continuing to teach the basic pistol course, we all know they've prohibited it. I (and other instructors) feel that the NRA has left MA instructors with little option/direction on the issue. We're all big boys and have opinions on whether we can continue to give the MA BFS/LTC-02 certificate and how to go about doing it.

I hope you have pockets as deep as NRA's legal department and top notch lawyers on speed dial, you may well need them.

 

[DPR]

I've seen that in writing by no less than John Howard himself. He said his legal department is watching closely and will take action on those that go off the reservation.




I hope you have pockets as deep as NRA's legal department and top notch lawyers on speed dial, you may well need them.

If what you suspect will happen does happen then I suspect it won't be too much longer before we hear about a basic pistol instructor in MA being contacted by the NRA. It will be interesting for sure.

 

[Len-2A Training]

If what you suspect will happen does happen then I suspect it won't be too much longer before we hear about a basic pistol instructor in MA being contacted by the NRA. It will be interesting for sure.

The threat was leveled at other instructors on a NRA Instructors forum already. I doubt that you'll hear who they go after unless it is you.

 

[Boarder700]

I am not an instructor, but this thread is making me sad, and angry. We have been making great progress in MA getting more people licensed. And now it seems like that is at risk due in large part to the NRAs greed. So, what can we do to try to fix this? It seems like we can try to push the MSP to approve the new course, or try to push the NRA to allow instructors to teach the old course. I would think pushing the NRA might be easier and more beneficial. I would imagine that most NRA members in the state are members here. So can we put a thread in the general discussion area asking people to contact the NRA and GOAL and tell them to get their head out of their a**? Personally, I don't fear new gun legislation much at the state or federal level because there are so many new gun owners out there and momentum is on our side. But if we can't keep bringing more people into the fold we can easily lose the momentum we have been building. So as a NRA and GOAL member, what can I do to help? I'm sure others feel the same way.


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[Rob Boudrie]

What we need, in addition to a new course (I'll see what shakes out, then write an open source one based on the new requirements), is a new method to get instructors certified by the MSP without the need to kiss the ring (er, pay an NRA training counselor). The NRA has made it clear that new shooters students are a cow to be milked, not a constituency to be served, so we need an alternate totally non-NRA path for both the class and state certification of instructors.

I would think pushing the NRA might be easier and more beneficial.

Nope.

Senior managers at the NRA in charge of approving the training strategy have no doubt presented an internal business plan on how much milk they will get from the cow. Asking them to go back to their boss and say "All that revenue I projected .... forget about it, we should give the product away for free, by the way, how are things shaking up for my annual bonus?" is not realistic.

 

[yanici]

What we need, in addition to a new course (I'll see what shakes out, then write an open source one based on the new requirements), is a new method to get instructors certified by the MSP without the need to kiss the ring (er, pay an NRA training counselor). The NRA has made it clear that new shooters students are a cow to be milked, not a constituency to be served, so we need an alternate totally non-NRA path for both the class and state certification of instructors.

Nope.

Senior managers at the NRA in charge of approving the training strategy have no doubt presented an internal business plan on how much milk they will get from the cow. Asking them to go back to their boss and say "All that revenue I projected .... forget about it, we should give the product away for free, by the way, how are things shaking up for my annual bonus?" is not realistic.

Thanks, Rob. Looking forward to your new course. I'm dead in the water 'til then.

 

[ScottS]

I am not an instructor, but this thread is making me sad, and angry. We have been making great progress in MA getting more people licensed. And now it seems like that is at risk due in large part to the NRAs greed. So, what can we do to try to fix this? It seems like we can try to push the MSP to approve the new course, or try to push the NRA to allow instructors to teach the old course. I would think pushing the NRA might be easier and more beneficial. I would imagine that most NRA members in the state are members here. So can we put a thread in the general discussion area asking people to contact the NRA and GOAL and tell them to get their head out of their a**? Personally, I don't fear new gun legislation much at the state or federal level because there are so many new gun owners out there and momentum is on our side. But if we can't keep bringing more people into the fold we can easily lose the momentum we have been building. So as a NRA and GOAL member, what can I do to help? I'm sure others feel the same way.


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You have a valid point, but you also have to look at it through NRA's eyes. MA is just one state, and most states don't have MA's draconian requirements for course approval. My guess is instructors in 40+ states aren't clamoring for them to get the new blended course "approved" by their state safety-Nazi's.

I don't think they evaluated the impact of changing over the entire course to blended learning by asking "Hey, wait! This won't **** over MA, will it?"

DISCLAIMER: I am no fan of blended learning. I think it's a huge mistake.

 

[M1911]

All they have to do is say "OK, instructors in MA can keep teaching NRA Basic Pistol until we get the blended course approved". Problem solved.

 

[ScottS]

All they have to do is say "OK, instructors in MA can keep teaching NRA Basic Pistol until we get the blended course approved". Problem solved.

How is MA's problem now a "problem" for NRA?

"Your move has caused us a problem. Now solve our problem."

Not sure that's a persuasive argument.

 

[bill o]

How is MA's problem now a "problem" for NRA?

"Your move has caused us a problem. Now solve our problem."

Not sure that's a persuasive argument.

Because we in MA are the NRA's customers and they ought to provide good service?

 

[Len-2A Training]

All they have to do is say "OK, instructors in MA can keep teaching NRA Basic Pistol until we get the blended course approved". Problem solved.

Never going to happen. If you understood what motivated the change at NRA HQ, largely driven by legal liability concerns and issues with instructors cutting corners, you might understand why they would never do that. Also IMNSHO MA instructors were some of the worst, cutting corners to pull in $$$ due to MA law requiring a course.

Because we in MA are the NRA's customers and they ought to provide good service?

NRA services their members/customers like bulls service cows! That won't change either.

NRA looks after itself not you or me.

 

[crazymjb]

Never going to happen. If you understood what motivated the change at NRA HQ, largely driven by legal liability concerns and issues with instructors cutting corners, you might understand why they would never do that. Also IMNSHO MA instructors were some of the worst, cutting corners to pull in $$$ due to MA law requiring a course.




NRA services their members/customers like bulls service cows! That won't change either.

NRA looks after itself not you or me.

I do recall hearing stories of instructors who would essentially trade a certificate for cash in a parking lot.

Mike

Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...

 

[bill o]

NRA services their members/customers like bulls service cows! That won't change either.

NRA looks after itself not you or me.

No argument here. Every instructor learns this pretty quickly.

 

[kalash]

Send all your students to me - I can teach Home Safety.

 

[M1911]

Send all your students to me - I can teach Home Safety.

For now. Wait until the NRA replaces HFS with a new blended course that isn't yet approved by the MSP. You know that is coming.

 

[kalash]

For now. Wait until the NRA replaces HFS with a new blended course that isn't yet approved by the MSP. You know that is coming.

Yep, probably. In all seriousness I got HFS cert at the same time as BPS and now I'm glad I did - about to move in with my girlfriend and I'm able to give her the course and get her licensed.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Never going to happen. If you understood what motivated the change at NRA HQ, largely driven by legal liability concerns and issues with instructors cutting corners.

Smokescreen.

Follow the money.

The NRA is increasing its cut of a typical class from a nominal $8 or so for the books to 50% of the typical class fee and, in doing so, has created a market for non-NRA state approved licensing classes.

 

[n1heu]

NRA is gaining 2 big things for themselves in this endeavor, control over how the program is presented and a share in the revenue. Of that there is no arguing. Mass accepts many other courses, the basic problem for non-affiliated instructors with most of them is they are owned by the organizations that created and teach them. All this we already know. It would seem a state centric organization funded by state instructors could make inroads by creating or repackaging something like the original NRA pistol course with the intent of making it a LTC class the MSP would deem appropriate. They could print and package a turnkey course and sell/license it to instructors. The NRA doesn't care if you teach non-NRA classes, just that you don't call it NRA XXX unless it is an actual NRA course. I know this sounds like one of those 'you guys should' posts but a state organization could gain some manner of funding in this way.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

Send all your students to me - I can teach Home Safety.

Honestly, it's all I teach. I prefer the curriculum as it covers many firearms types, and afterwards I can add my own "take students to the range" to our day of training.

 

[n1heu]

Me too. I was teaching NRA Basic Pistol LTC-002 and adding elements of HFS, now I've been teaching HFS LTC-007 adding elements of BP.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Honestly, it's all I teach. I prefer the curriculum as it covers many firearms types, and afterwards I can add my own "take students to the range" to our day of training.

Same here.

What we need, in addition to a new course (I'll see what shakes out, then write an open source one based on the new requirements), is a new method to get instructors certified by the MSP without the need to kiss the ring (er, pay an NRA training counselor). The NRA has made it clear that new shooters students are a cow to be milked, not a constituency to be served, so we need an alternate totally non-NRA path for both the class and state certification of instructors.

Rob, (I think I said it before, I may have just thought it real hard) if there's anything I can do to help as you develop the new course, please let me know.

 

[EddieCoyle]

The NRA is going to lose market share.

 

[ScottS]

Regarding the old packets, everybody get this today?

Reminder: All NRA Pistol Instructors may return original-condition Basic Pistol student packets for a refund for materials only, by October 31, 2016. Packets received after October 31, 2016 will not be refunded. Orders missing materials from the original packet will not be refunded.

To initiate a return, send your used packets to:

NRA Program Materials Center
9001 Hampton Overlook
Capitol Heights, MD 20743

Active credit cards used to purchase materials within the last 6 months will be credited, and orders placed beyond 6 months will be refunded by check. Please include your original packing slip or a homemade packing slip showing your name, current address, and items returned. Please allow 30 business days for your refund to be processed.

If you have a question regarding your return, call 1-800-336-7402.

 

[szaino]

I didn't get the email from the NRA.

 

[M1911]

I got it too.

 

[kalash]

I got it and laughed, considering how many people couldn't find packets anywhere in the spring.

 

[ScottS]

I got it and laughed, considering how many people couldn't find packets anywhere in the spring.

I got it and cried. I was told on the phone by NRA Training that I had to turn in any excess packets before the 16 May changeover date. I had my last class on 15 May, so I held them.

I think I threw away my last 10 packets in early June.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The NRA is going to lose market share.

Yup. What the NRA is missing is that the driving force for intro classes is government requirements - most often to get a CCW in a shall issue state. These states don't tend to rely solely on NRA classes, and NRA market share will take a nosedive in those states where it is one of several options.

It should have been called "Bendover learning".

Plus, they are playing games making it expensive to return packets by requiring the entire packet be sent. It would make more sense to use the bookseller approach - credit for unsold inventory if you return the cover torn off the book (this is a common practice in the paperback market).

 

[ScottS]

Yup. What the NRA is missing is that the driving force for intro classes is government requirements - most often to get a CCW in a shall issue state. These states don't tend to rely solely on NRA classes, and NRA market share will take a nosedive in those states where it is one of several options.

Interesting assertion, but that's really all it is, right? You're projecting an awful lot from MA requirements onto the other 49 states.

No one who has ever taken a course from me has done it for any government requirements, and we've had to turn people away twice just in the first quarter of 2016. I haven't seen a demand let up yet, and I'm still trying to figure out how to get Phase 2 coordinated.

I realize the change to blended learning has screwed MA-based instructors, but deciding that somehow this screws the NRA nationwide is kidding yourself.

 

[M1911]

The NRA is taking $60 per student when they used to be taking $8. That is pretty much the very definition of screwing instructors nationwide, not just in MA.