It is, but the NRA won't let you teach NRA Basic Pistol anymore.
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Update on Blended Learning
- Thread starter robmcd
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It is, but the NRA won't let you teach NRA Basic Pistol anymore.
Agreed. NRA Basic Pistol instructor cert is currently worthless for those wishing to issue the MSP cert to students.
I think it's safe to assume that most instructors in MA have students looking for a license in MA.
NRA Basic Pistol is one course that is accepted as "good enough" to merit an MSP certificate. So no, it was never useless.
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Also, NRA certification is accepted as proof you are qualified for the MSP instructor's certificate, even if you intend to use the MSP instructor cert to teach non-NRA classes.
Isn't Basic Pistol "not an NRA class" at this point?
i.e., the SP doesn't care if you continue to teach BP, and they'll still accept a cert for that course, it's only the NRA that cares.
I'm bowing out of this conversation. THe question of what training needs to be done to issue a MA State Police BFS certificate for a person to get their LTC and what training needs to be completed in order to be certified as a MA State Police BF instructor are 2 separate questions. PLEASE READ THE POSTS BEFORE YOU MAKE COMMENTS!!!!
I'm not sure I ever said it was "sanctioned by the NRA". Did I?
In fact, my point was that it *isn't* sanctioned by the NRA, but it's *still* an approved course as far as the SP are concerned.
Neptune Cat
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Shall we call it "the course formerly knows as the NRA Basic Pistol Course"
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There are non-NRA classes that the MSP accepts, however, it is more problematic explaining to the MSP how a certification as an instructor from a less recognized organization makes one qualified for the MSP instructor's certificate. This makes the NRA instructor certification very useful even if you do not teach any NRA classes.
I agree. It's not fraud. It's unauthorized/illegal use of copyrighted material.
And they are a vindictive bunch.
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Vindictive indeed.
Any consensus on this? I've sent multiple emails, electronic and hard copies of my course curriculum to the MSP over the last year and heard nothing. I'm gonna call if I remember/have time this week. I have a lot of people who want the class. Haven't had a ton of time to teach since last fall on weekends with school and everything so sort of forgot about it.
I have been teaching a good amount of additional material on top of the LTC-002 pretty much since I started. It wouldn't be hard to change it around so I am fully satisfied, still cover everything that was in LTC-002, but without using any original NRA material.
Even if the MSP came out and green-lighted this, as long as we weren't using NRA material or doing anything to offend the NRA, it would at least be good for a holdover.
If they let me, and my course gets approved, I intend to have it open source.
Mike
I have been teaching a good amount of additional material on top of the LTC-002 pretty much since I started. It wouldn't be hard to change it around so I am fully satisfied, still cover everything that was in LTC-002, but without using any original NRA material.
Even if the MSP came out and green-lighted this, as long as we weren't using NRA material or doing anything to offend the NRA, it would at least be good for a holdover.
If they let me, and my course gets approved, I intend to have it open source.
Mike
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Mike,
I've been told by a TC involved that MSP has a huge stack of proposed courses on their desk and hasn't even looked at them. Unsure if they are (or are NOT) prioritizing a decision on the new NRA blended course, but I was told nothing was decided on that yet either.
I've been told by a TC involved that MSP has a huge stack of proposed courses on their desk and hasn't even looked at them. Unsure if they are (or are NOT) prioritizing a decision on the new NRA blended course, but I was told nothing was decided on that yet either.
Any guidance on what we can do instruction wise? Are any of the approved courses open source (I see nothing of a requirement of certification to teach a specific course)?
Ill call them tomorrow I guess. What a pain in the dick.
Mike
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Ill call them tomorrow I guess. What a pain in the dick.
Mike
Sent from my cell phone with a tiny keyboard and large thumbs...
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If certified to do so, teach NRA HFS with add-ins if you wish.
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Mike, sad to say that in that case you have no alternative AFAIK.
When I became an NRA Instructor I got both and thought it was always done that way.
I'm in the same boat as you Mike. I'm considering going to the class being offered in Taunton next week for HFS Instructor.
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Two points:
- Take another look at the nrainstructors.org website, location is no longer in Taunton as that location is now vacant. Rick is teaching it at Mansfield F&G instead.
- If you take the course on the 25th I'll also be there teaching my MA Gun Law by and for Non-Lawyers either in the clubhouse or on the patio. Rick and I can easily work together but if the weather is good, I'm probably going to opt to relocate onto the patio. Briefly say "hi" and ID yourself if you are there.
Rick is a good friend and great instructor so enjoy the class!
Even a clarification from the MSP that as long as the same materially is covered they will accept LTC-002 would be nice. If I recall HFS requires a cop or a lawyer to be present? That would work a couple years from now, but currently is a no go.
Mike
Mike
Len thank you Sir, I appreciate the heads up! If I do end up taking the course I will absolutely stop by and say hi.
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No, it is NRA PPIH and PPOH that requires a KNOWLEDGABLE (of MA Gun Laws) LEO or attorney present one of the lessons on gun laws and aftermath of a self-defense shooting. I've done this for other instructors for a flat fee and will do it for other instructors as well.
HFS has no such restriction. In fact, "law" is NOT part of the HFS course. It is part of the MSP BFS requirement and MSP doesn't require that the instructor have a clue about MA gun laws (as evidence by many of the questions posted here on NES) just as long as they have an NRA cert and their check clears.
Wow that's crazy to me. I try to spend as much time as I can going over MA laws and I can't imagine I would change that after becoming HFS certified. It's just too important. I even make sure to explain how the purchasing process works and how to use the MA Gun Portal. I feel it's a disservice not to.
I called MSP headquarters this morning for clarification, they said they are still accepting the LTC-002 course (have had this question), but couldn't give me an answer if I could teach substantially the same material using my own slides and instead transferred me to someone I left a voicemail for. Hoping to get an answer/clarification.
Guess I was thinking PPIH/PPOH. I would go get certified as HFS if I were confident it wouldn't change. I wish I knew when I got my basic pistol cert some classes offered both, but this was the end of 2010 at this point.
Mike
Guess I was thinking PPIH/PPOH. I would go get certified as HFS if I were confident it wouldn't change. I wish I knew when I got my basic pistol cert some classes offered both, but this was the end of 2010 at this point.
Mike
I said the same thing to my wife last night! What if HFS changes?!
I took the BFS in 2013 and had NO CLUE what was about to happen.
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Yeah that's why I'm not about to plop down a bunch of money for HFS. I don't take IP until next semester, but intuitively the same material can be covered while utilizing none of the copyrights owned by the NRA. The question is whether the MSP will allow that, and also it may come down to the simple "NRA Basic Pistol" being written on the certificate, unless they allowed for something like NRA Basic Pistol equivalent.
It would be much easier if once a BFS instructor they had a published minimum curriculum they wanted you to cover and you could have at it. I'm actually kind of surprised they don't, IMO you don't adequately learn what you need to know just from "basic pistol." I've always supplemented it, and brought an AR and 870 to the range for familiarization.
Mike
It would be much easier if once a BFS instructor they had a published minimum curriculum they wanted you to cover and you could have at it. I'm actually kind of surprised they don't, IMO you don't adequately learn what you need to know just from "basic pistol." I've always supplemented it, and brought an AR and 870 to the range for familiarization.
Mike
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I expect the NRA to change HFS eventually as well. They are not going to leave that money on the table.
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