Update 2/21 Westford Ban

[calsdad]

Why don't we start our own petition? I heard a story about some elected official in Vermont who wants to fine people for not having a firearm, why dont we get 400+ signatures for that and turn the tables on these knuckleheads? Ive lived in westford my whole life and it has steadily gone down hill. Could we file a preemptive lawsuit against the town or at least the BoS? I know these things are a complete stretch but something drastic has to be done so they know we wont back down.

Something like that was what I was suggesting in one of my previous posts.

The Selectman who put the bill in originally: Jeffries - had originally made some comments about people who wanted to have "assault weapons" should be in a militia if I remember correctly.

Well maybe it's time to sit down - and actually propose that this happen. Put in the proposal that the Town of Westford reconstitute the Constitutional militia - and require that all able bodied males within the town who want to will participate. You might have to give a little to get a little - but imagine if you had an "official" militia - whose membership allowed you to own and practice with your "assault weapons" - and was an officially sanctioned organization - with training requirements and so forth.

There's always a ton of talk here on NES about revolution against the government and so forth - well the militia the way it was originally organized was seen by the founding fathers as THE bulwark against tyranny in this country. Which is of course why it was dismantled by the government back in the early 1900's in favor of the "National Guard" - which is ultimately reportable up to the Federal Govt. (whereas the militias were reportable to the governor of the state).

If we are ever going to put this country back to the republic form that it originally had (states have the power - federal government is subsidiary) - then somehow somewhere some of the pieces that made that republic what it was - and were taken apart by the people who wanted the feds to have ultimate power - must be restored somehow.

Jeffries opened the door to a militia. I think his idea of what one would be and what freedom liberty loving small government people think one would be are probably drastically different - but he opened that door nonetheless.

Something to ponder: would requiring membership in a " militia " with maybe some mandatory training requirements and so forth - really be that bad of a thing - to own an "assault weapon".

I know this flies in the face of the way we understand gun rights these days - but I don't think it's really that much different than the way it was understood a few generations ago. And having a militia in place would be the structure that would really be needed if the time actually came to resist a tyrannical government - as opposed to what we have now - where people engage in wishful thinking that the military might come and save them- or that eveybody is going to run out their door when MichaelJR calls go time - and then magically learn to fight together as a unit - even though nobody knows where anybody is or even who their compatriots are.

 

[MysteryGirl]

The only problem I see with that is the potential for being branded a domestic terrorist group by the Feds.

 

[Coyote33]

In another way to turn the tables, perhaps PennyPincher could open discussions on how to make schools safer. Change the focus. Put it where it belongs.

In their "big speech", the NRA proposed armed guards in schools, possibly volunteer retired police and military, or others with training.

Put together a training course/agenda, and have 10 armed people at the ready to actually offer true protection to the kids. At no cost, who would not want that?

Yes - even though it might not mean much in the grand scheme of things - it's a major propaganda victory for our side because it makes it look like even in MA - that people are squarely against further infringement of rights to defend oneself.

That's why it's important to do these things - and then publicize the crap out of them.

What I would like to see is a big rally here in MA - maybe the next one at the State House - but I think a better candidate would be the proposed rally in Lexington on April 19th - and have speakers like June4th (member here), Henson Ong, (the guy from CT) - and a number of other hard hitting speakers - all on the same stage - giving speeches supporting liberty - on the ground where the blood of the people who started the fight for this country is literally still in the ground beneath their feet.

Pull that rally off and publicize the crap out of it - and the anti gun anti liberty side would be seriously butt-hurt.

It is all about making your case known.

I think we need to start having these "workshops" and "conversations" and "conferences", and invite "gun crime specialists" of our choosing, and then splash it on the front page of the paper. Like what the other side did in the T&G today: Worcester Telegram & Gazette - telegram.com http://www.telegram.com/article/20130223/NEWS/102239945/1116

Sure, a "rally" is a great idea as well, but I think we need to hold it in a more serious conference location (Worcester Public Library? some college?), to get the recognition as a true "conference" or "conversation".

 

[beaker]

Time to show Jefferies the door...

Keep in mind, jeffries is up for election. A sure way to kill this, dead, is remove the cancer. Support candidates running against him. Westford 2a will continue to send emails out. Get residents involved.

Using my galaxy s2 via tapatalk, because I am too lazy to find a computer

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[Fishercat]

It isn't just about armed guards in schools, though that would be a start.. Other options include double locked vestibules at ALL doors, bullet resistant windows, available body armor for teachers and staff who are first responders (and kids if you can afford it), even secure Panic Rooms and corridor containment doors. Make Obama put (our) money where his mouth is. One of his Executive Orders was to free up funds for school improvements. Do them. All towns should be looking at this, not just Westford. If you have kids in the public school system in any town, ask if there is a current emergency plan and if there are ways to make the buildings more secure. BTW, you may not want your school plan publicized.

As members of clubs, get the public involved. At the Goal meeting last Sunday, they were saying the Women On Target programs fill up as soon as they are offered. The NSSF First Shot program is also pretty popular. The idea needs to get out there that gun owners are not the criminals the city liberals fear. If gun ownership was something that wasn't required (pretty much by law) to be hidden from public view, more people might understand that The Good Guys can have guns too.

 

[rutilate]

How can people leverage this to show that Jeffries, who wanted to make a statement, has made Westford the laughingstock of the nation? Use it to make sure that he never gets re-elected!

 

[Trenchgunner72]

Something to ponder: would requiring membership in a " militia " with maybe some mandatory training requirements and so forth - really be that bad of a thing - to own an "assault weapon".

You already ARE in the Militia.

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3

And SCOTUS has determined that the 2nd Amendment protects an INDIVIDUAL right to keep and bear arms UNCONNECTED to militia service. Why do you suppose that is? Because they know that "The whole body of the people" as Mason said, were the Un-organized (true) Militia.

 

[calsdad]

The only problem I see with that is the potential for being branded a domestic terrorist group by the Feds.

That would open a lot of people's eyes then. A town which is concerned with "gun" violence - puts together a militia - because it wants the people who own "assault weapons" to be properly trained (regulated - just like it says in the Constitution) - and then the Feds come in and brand everybody a domestic terror group.

My point is to play the hypocrisy and catch-22's for all they're worth and change the terms of the debate.

 

[Fishercat]

Any town that requires a constitutional militia to own guns had better follow the rules of what constitutes a militia.
ALL able bodied men. Not just gun owners. ALL of them. Including the anti-gun selectmen and their sons.
Perhaps in this day and age it should be all able bodied CITIZENS. Men and Women.
You don't want a militia to be made up of only gun owners for the very reason that you don't want to be singled out and set apart. Gun owners are CITIZENS and need to be treated as such.

 

[Bob P]

In their "big speech", the NRA proposed armed guards in schools, possibly volunteer retired police and military, or others with training.

Put together a training course/agenda, and have 10 armed people at the ready to actually offer true protection to the kids. At no cost, who would not want that?




It is all about making your case known.

I think we need to start having these "workshops" and "conversations" and "conferences", and invite "gun crime specialists" of our choosing, and then splash it on the front page of the paper. Like what the other side did in the T&G today: Worcester Telegram & Gazette - telegram.com Leaders cry out for gun control - Worcester Telegram & Gazette - telegram.com

Sure, a "rally" is a great idea as well, but I think we need to hold it in a more serious conference location (Worcester Public Library? some college?), to get the recognition as a true "conference" or "conversation".

Coyote, you keep talking like the media is going to play fair on this. They're not. Nor are the colleges for the most part. Look at the Berkeley write up on the recent Emerson forum where Dr Steve Moysey so eloquently handed Rosenthal his tuchas in open debate. You would never know from reading this kid's write up who 'won' the discussion.

They own the means of communication so we're going to get made to look ineffectual at best. Rallies are good. Word of mouth is good but remember that overt propaganda that would appeal to you or me - a strong pro message about self-reliance etc is going to be portrayed by the media - who are NOT our friends - as extremism. So long as we play their game they win. We need to re-shift the focus. When they start blaming the gun shift the narrative to the criminal.

 

[calsdad]

You already ARE in the Militia.

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3

And SCOTUS has determined that the 2nd Amendment protects an INDIVIDUAL right to keep and bear arms UNCONNECTED to militia service. Why do you suppose that is? Because they know that "The whole body of the people" as Mason said, were the Un-organized (true) Militia.

The militia you are in now doesn't really mean crap does it? Because it is unorganized.

The militia that used to exist - that was actually "regulated" (organized) - was not under direct Federal control like the National Guard is - and could not be shipped offshore to fight the Federal government's wars. This is why the old militia system was basically swept away in favor of the National Guard.

From Wiki:

The National Guard was established as a federally funded reserve component of the nation's armed forces on 21 January 1903 with the Militia Act of 1903 under Title 10 and Title 32 of the US Code.

So the National Guard comes into being during the Teddy Roosevelt presidency (TR was a progressive). The in 1913 we get the Federal Reserve Act - and Income Tax. A few short years after that - we're involved in WW1 , then comes Depression, massive expansion of the govt. under the next Roosevelt - and all sort of progressive / liberal expansion of the government in the years coming after that. Leading all the way up - the present day with Obama.

The National Guard has been getting sent overseas for years. The old militia system was not designed to do that - and in fact in the eyes of the founding fathers was expressly designed to PREVENT that. They did not think a standing army was a good thing - because it led to exactly the kind of situation we find ourselves in today with a government out of control, national bankruptcy - foreign wars. etc.

Edwin Viera explains a lot about the Constitutional Militia in this series of articles

Edwin Vieira, Jr. -- "The Militia of The Several States" Guarantee the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, Part 1


Another good article about a Viera book:
Revitalization of the State Militias: A Review of Edwin Vieira?s The Sword and Sovereignty | Peace . Gold . Liberty

Importance of the State Militias

With his newest book, The Sword and Sovereignty, Edwin Vieira, Jr., has given us a magisterial work that meticulously documents the history of the early American militias and why similar units must be revitalized today if we are to adequately confront our disintegration as a society and restore the republic that the Founders gave us. It is a book that will profoundly shock 98 percent of Americans. It is so overpowering in its legal logic and constitutional veracity that the intellectuality of Cicero and Plutarch comes to mind as one reads the prose. It is not a book that can be read lightly; it demands a tolerance for legal thought and abstract conceptualization. But for those “men of the mind” who understand the importance of ideas in the unfolding of history, the effort will be most rewarding. You will be shown an entirely new way of seeing things regarding guns, militia, the Second Amendment, homeland security, how they intertwine, and how they have been grossly misrepresented by quisling, pseudo-experts of the establishment.

For the first 125 years of our history, the “Militia of the several States” was a highly honored institution that played a vital role in preserving the concept of federalism upon which our system of freedom depends. This ended with the Militia Act of 1903, which shifted the “Militia of the several States” into National Guard units under the auspices of the national military. State and local control was eliminated.

In addition, as Vieira tells us, over the past century decades “of disuse, misuse, and abuse have so thoroughly muddled the meaning of ‘Militia’ in contemporary American political discourse that the word is hardly ever encountered except as invective, usually well-freighted with vituperative adjectives such as ‘extremist’ and ‘violent’, broadcast by the enemies of constitutional government (and their dupes and other ‘useful idiots’) for the purpose of intimidating into silence the people they intend to oppress as soon as the vast majority of Americans has been thoroughly disarmed through one form of ‘gun control’ or another.”

Anybody today with a modicum of brains can see that our nation is being transformed into a “first-class police state.” Homeland Security and Washington’s outrageous “Patriot Acts” are Alice in Wonderland institutions that have taken us a giant step down the path to Orwell’s nightmare. Our military-industrial complex grows exponentially. The Federal Government has become a Godzilla of ugliness and menace. Our Congressmen are Machiavellian schemers wallowing in sophistic mazes and treason to truth.

- - - Updated - - -

Any town that requires a constitutional militia to own guns had better follow the rules of what constitutes a militia.
ALL able bodied men. Not just gun owners. ALL of them. Including the anti-gun selectmen and their sons.
Perhaps in this day and age it should be all able bodied CITIZENS. Men and Women.
You don't want a militia to be made up of only gun owners for the very reason that you don't want to be singled out and set apart. Gun owners are CITIZENS and need to be treated as such.

That's part of my point behind proposing it.

Jeffries proposed a "militia" - when I don't think he has the first idea of what he's talking about.

 

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

Jeffries proposed a "militia" - when I don't think he has the first idea of what he's talking about.

Jeffries hasn't the vaguest idea of anything he's talking about.

 

[Neuro]

can you have a militia of 1? I can organize myself...

 

[Coyote33]

Coyote, you keep talking like the media is going to play fair on this. They're not. Nor are the colleges for the most part. Look at the Berkeley write up on the recent Emerson forum where Dr Steve Moysey so eloquently handed Rosenthal his tuchas in open debate. You would never know from reading this kid's write up who 'won' the discussion.

They own the means of communication so we're going to get made to look ineffectual at best. Rallies are good. Word of mouth is good but remember that overt propaganda that would appeal to you or me - a strong pro message about self-reliance etc is going to be portrayed by the media - who are NOT our friends - as extremism. So long as we play their game they win. We need to re-shift the focus. When they start blaming the gun shift the narrative to the criminal.

This is why we need to keep on pounding them. We need to provide them ALREADY WRITTEN HEADLINES. We need to assist them in writing their articles, by sending them quotes (ie: here is a quote: "blah blah blah", which you can submit to your paper, etc.) We need to befriend reporters like that Wallack guy who came on here. We need to establish, nurture, and enhance relationships with celebrities like Matt Light, Magnum PI, Bruce Willis, etc, enough so that they attend our events. We need to communicate better with the Drudges, Breitbarts, NPR's, and everyone else, from all angles, repeatedly! This is a battle, and we cannot just throw in the towel, Bob. We need to utilize the web, blogs, local papers, and stand out on street corners with signs. We need to hang banners from MassPike bridges. We need to promote, promote, promote!

There is a GUN CLUB at UMass Amherst, for Pete's sake, Bob. THIS is the kind of stuff we need to expand, rapidly and repeatedly!

 

[Roscoe]

This was mentioned on NRA's Cam&company Friday feb 22nd at the ~25 min mark.

Great job everyone !

 

[elaicool2a]

Gun Ban Resurrected??

I heard from a friend in Westford that some libtard with 200 signatures resurrected this gun ban - to be discussed at the next meeting (tonight?). Anyone else heard of this?

 

[noxin]

The only way to prevent the re-introduction of municipal level gun bans is to get a preemption ordinance/law either at the state level (yeah right), or the municipal level. Right now, with the amount of support in westford, the municipal level of preemption seems like a plausible path.

 

[DrNVP]

I heard from a friend in Westford that some libtard with 200 signatures resurrected this gun ban - to be discussed at the next meeting (tonight?). Anyone else heard of this?

figures.

I had a feeling this wouldn't die.

 

[FrugalFannie]

checking on it now

 

[FrugalFannie]

There is nothing that can be done on Saturday at Annual Town Meeting that would be binding.

There is a Board of Selectmen's meeting on Tuesday. They could bring 200 signatures to the town clerk, have them certified, and then the BoS would have 45 days to hold a special town meeting.

 

[terraformer]

There is nothing that can be done on Saturday at Annual Town Meeting that would be binding.

There is a Board of Selectmen's meeting on Tuesday. They could bring 200 signatures to the town clerk, have them certified, and then the BoS would have 45 days to hold a special town meeting.

But if they hold a non binding vote, a large contingent of Westford residents who are gun owners can send the message that their special meeting will be a waste of time by voting down any non binding resolution. I live in a town where 11K residents live (assume 6-8K voters) and we have trouble finding a 150 person quorum. Realize that these town meetings are where the policies that effect most of your lives are formed. I highly suggest any resident to get out and participate in the town meetings for your town. The reason why these lunatics have been able to effect so many anti-gun laws around the country is because too many people assumed the next guy would take care of it. Get out and vote, all of you everywhere. Especially those of you in Westford.

Ok, I will get off of my soapbox...

 

[FrugalFannie]

But if they hold a non binding vote, a large contingent of Westford residents who are gun owners can send the message that their special meeting will be a waste of time by voting down any non binding resolution. I live in a town where 11K residents live (assume 6-8K voters) and we have trouble finding a 150 person quorum. Realize that these town meetings are where the policies that effect most of your lives are formed. I highly suggest any resident to get out and participate in the town meetings for your town. The reason why these lunatics have been able to effect so many anti-gun laws around the country is because too many people assumed the next guy would take care of it. Get out and vote, all of you everywhere. Especially those of you in Westford.

Ok, I will get off of my soapbox...

You are correct Terra. We do have a plan if there is a resolution brought for a vote.

 

[eisenhow]

Just a quick update. Town meeting came and went without any resolutions from the floor related to firearms. There was lots of lively discussion about parking and renaming East Boston Camps to "Westford Whatever". We'll keep our eyes and ears open for any special town meeting petition.

 

[FrugalFannie]

Thanks Eisenhow for posting.

Right now I am guessing the opposition will not bring forth signatures for a Special Town Meeting at this time as that would mean it would have to be held either before or very near Town elections and the state primary elections for Senate.I really don't think Jefferies wants this to be the topic of discussion while he is trying to get re-elected.

Could it show up at the Fall town meeting? Yes. But this is why it is important to replace people with an agenda that includes gun control.

 

[terraformer]

I just want to say, I have been paying VERY close attention to this situation in Westford and I have been in contact with a lot of the people who have been fighting back against this. It literally brings a tear to my eye to think about how one woman's shear will and determination led to the formation of a strong core group of truly grass roots activists to pony up their time which in turn led to the result we have here.

A lot of people stepped up to the plate here and showed how it's done and I don't want to minimize their contributions but if it hadn't been for Deb, I am not sure the reaction to this would have been as strong and as decisive. When these lunatics show up at your town to step all over you rights, above is the blueprint for how to make the response happen. It means stepping up, getting involved and pushing back politely but firmly.

 

[piman]

I just want to say, I have been paying VERY close attention to this situation in Westford and I have been in contact with a lot of the people who have been fighting back against this. It literally brings a tear to my eye to think about how one woman's shear will and determination led to the formation of a strong core group of truly grass roots activists to pony up their time which in turn led to the result we have here.

A lot of people stepped up to the plate here and showed how it's done and I don't want to minimize their contributions but if it hadn't been for Deb, I am not sure the reaction to this would have been as strong and as decisive. When these lunatics show up at your town to step all over you rights, above is the blueprint for how to make the response happen. It means stepping up, getting involved and pushing back politely but firmly.

+1.

 

[FrugalFannie]

I just want to say, I have been paying VERY close attention to this situation in Westford and I have been in contact with a lot of the people who have been fighting back against this. It literally brings a tear to my eye to think about how one woman's shear will and determination led to the formation of a strong core group of truly grass roots activists to pony up their time which in turn led to the result we have here.

A lot of people stepped up to the plate here and showed how it's done and I don't want to minimize their contributions but if it hadn't been for Deb, I am not sure the reaction to this would have been as strong and as decisive. When these lunatics show up at your town to step all over you rights, above is the blueprint for how to make the response happen. It means stepping up, getting involved and pushing back politely but firmly.

Thank you for those kind words. I may have stood up first, but I was quickly joined by a lot of good people and I will be forever grateful for their contributions.

 

[cekim]

I just want to say, I have been paying VERY close attention to this situation in Westford and I have been in contact with a lot of the people who have been fighting back against this. It literally brings a tear to my eye to think about how one woman's shear will and determination led to the formation of a strong core group of truly grass roots activists to pony up their time which in turn led to the result we have here.

A lot of people stepped up to the plate here and showed how it's done and I don't want to minimize their contributions but if it hadn't been for Deb, I am not sure the reaction to this would have been as strong and as decisive. When these lunatics show up at your town to step all over you rights, above is the blueprint for how to make the response happen. It means stepping up, getting involved and pushing back politely but firmly.

+1776

 

[PaulD]

Deb was also at Holliston and I've seen her at HSC a number of times. She seems tireless.

 

[elaicool2a]

Nice work Deb and all