AHM
NES Member
Did he run his mouth?Could he have headed straight home after a flight? Did he instead CHOOSE to stay at a NJ airport?
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Did he run his mouth?Could he have headed straight home after a flight? Did he instead CHOOSE to stay at a NJ airport?
Lodging IS covered if it is incidental to the trip. If you need to stop to sleep, you are covered under FOPA.
Incidental to the trip means if you stop to sleep on a trip between MA and NY, no you aren't covered.
But if you stop to sleep on a trip between MA and TX, you are covered.
Without reading about that specific instance, I can't comment. Could he have headed straight home after a flight? Did he instead CHOOSE to stay at a NJ airport?
Also, its pretty well established that Port Authority airports in NY and NJ ignore FOPA and let you sort it out in the courts.
Sorry, but the 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals disagrees with you.Lodging IS covered if it is incidental to the trip. If you need to stop to sleep, you are covered under FOPA.
Incidental to the trip means if you stop to sleep on a trip between MA and NY, no you aren't covered.
But if you stop to sleep on a trip between MA and TX, you are covered.
Without reading about that specific instance, I can't comment. Could he have headed straight home after a flight? Did he instead CHOOSE to stay at a NJ airport?
Also, its pretty well established that Port Authority airports in NY and NJ ignore FOPA and let you sort it out in the courts.
Don, you're completely missing the point. You're just wrong here.This is interesting. But it is different from a person driving interstate stopping to sleep. Vastly different.
This is a case of a person who picked up baggage at a baggage counter and then brought it to his hotel. Who then the next morning tried to check it at the airport.
Again, we are getting into dealing with the Port Authority. Find me a case where someone was busted while DRIVING, not dealing with PA cops.
One other thing. ATF guidance has centered on "reasonable, necessary stops". It was not necessary for Revell to reacquire his firearms. He could have informed the airline that the luggage contained firearms and that it would not be lawful for him to take possession of them until he arrived at his destination.
Applied to driving from MA to TX, it is obvious that a stop for the night to sleep would meet the definition of a reasonable and necessary stop.
He flew from West Coast to his home in W. PA, however he missed the connecting flight home out of Newark. Airline forced him to take his luggage (legally checked firearm) with him to the hotel overnight and when he checked back in to get that last leg flight home, they arrested him. He appealed all the way to NJ supreme court and they agreed that he never opened the bag with the gun, but he was in illegal possession of a gun in NJ. Gov. Crispy Creme commuted his sentence when he was running for president. He spent 3 yrs in NJ prison and is a PP now.Lodging IS covered if it is incidental to the trip. If you need to stop to sleep, you are covered under FOPA.
Incidental to the trip means if you stop to sleep on a trip between MA and NY, no you aren't covered.
But if you stop to sleep on a trip between MA and TX, you are covered.
Without reading about that specific instance, I can't comment. Could he have headed straight home after a flight? Did he instead CHOOSE to stay at a NJ airport?
Also, its pretty well established that Port Authority airports in NY and NJ ignore FOPA and let you sort it out in the courts.
Show me on the map how to drive out of New England to anywhere else without going through New York (or Canada).
Actually, Ravell (from Utah) spent three days in jail in New Jersey, and the charges were dropped four months later. Afterwards, Ravell sued the port authority and the arresting officer for allegedly violating his rights, and lost the case (cited above).He flew from West Coast to his home in W. PA, however he missed the connecting flight home out of Newark. Airline forced him to take his luggage (legally checked firearm) with him to the hotel overnight and when he checked back in to get that last leg flight home, they arrested him. He appealed all the way to NJ supreme court and they agreed that he never opened the bag with the gun, but he was in illegal possession of a gun in NJ. Gov. Crispy Creme commuted his sentence when he was running for president. He spent 3 yrs in NJ prison and is a PP now.
I had zero problems on I-90.True, but one can minimize their exposure (ex. take I84 & I80 vs. I90)
I've done it a bunch usually I just toss the glock in my luggage with a lock on it until I hit America. Never been stopped but for them to search your luggage at that point they'd need a warrant.They were actually great and said NY was a Well Known pain in the ass. Didn’t ask any personal questions whatsoever. Gave me all the info I needed to push back if it got to that point With some podunk barney.
True, but most people talk their way into SS bracelets by agreeing voluntarily to a search. You are just smarter than most folks.I've done it a bunch usually I just toss the glock in my luggage with a lock on it until I hit America. Never been stopped but for them to search your luggage at that point they'd need a warrant.
Only took me maybe 20 minutes in the courthouse but with parking, walking around etc I spent a bit more time Its real convenient from I-81, only a few minutes to the courthouse area
I think you and my wife need to have a chatTrue, but most people talk their way into SS bracelets by agreeing voluntarily to a search. You are just smarter than most folks.
Lodging IS covered if it is incidental to the trip. If you need to stop to sleep, you are covered under FOPA.
Incidental to the trip means if you stop to sleep on a trip between MA and NY, no you aren't covered.
But if you stop to sleep on a trip between MA and TX, you are covered.
Without reading about that specific instance, I can't comment. Could he have headed straight home after a flight? Did he instead CHOOSE to stay at a NJ airport?
Also, its pretty well established that Port Authority airports in NY and NJ ignore FOPA and let you sort it out in the courts.
Pro-tip: don't park in a handicapped space if you don't have a handicapped tag.Visiting a gift shop along the way also not covered.
I say BS and call for cite. Lens will be here soon. Or already has.
Lodging not covered. Gas and restroom stops are up for battle. Food stops or any arranged meet not covered. Visiting a gift shop along the way also not covered. Until there are cites to court cases supporting it.
It’s super unfortunate that NY is so unreasonable. Good luck
A-hem.I say BS and call for cite. Lens will be here soon. Or already has.
Lodging not covered. Gas and restroom stops are up for battle. Food stops or any arranged meet not covered. Visiting a gift shop along the way also not covered. Until there are cites to court cases supporting it.
That is messed up.Lodging is NOT covered under FOPA. The PA guy staying overnight at NJ airport spent 3 yrs in NJ prison, lost all appeals.
How people handle this? They do not read such threads. People drive around, do not get stopped, do not get searched, do not get handcuffed, do not insult police and do not worry.That is messed up.
I dont understand, how the f*ck do serious competitors handle this stuff, specially when they might have to spend 3 days at an event?
Isn't there a big long range competition held in NJ?
I know people say if you have a piece of paper saying you are competing you are fine. But, are we?
You demanded cites, so let's see yours.I say BS and call for cite. Lens will be here soon. Or already has.
Lodging not covered. Gas and restroom stops are up for battle. Food stops or any arranged meet not covered. Visiting a gift shop along the way also not covered. Until there are cites to court cases supporting it.
That was my point. There are none that I am aware of which do the job. Until there are cases which validate an interpretation of the law: the system works as intended.You demanded cites, so let's see yours.
How are they unreasonable? If you are driving. $50 to the charity of your choice for a single instance of a person driving through NY in compliance with FOPA who was otherwise following the law, who was arrested and prosecuted.
That is not what I asked. Being ignorant of the law is not a good answer.How people handle this? They do not read such threads. People drive around, do not get stopped, do not get searched, do not get handcuffed, do not insult police and do not worry.
To be fair, arrests and trials don't get you case law. It has to go all the way to a verdict for that.There are no cites because nobody ever gets arrested for this if they are traveling in compliance, so sorry. No case law.
You all are worrying about nothing.
How about you? Any cites that food stops aren't covered? Gas and restroom are up for battle? Any cites?
Can you find a single example of someone driving in line with FOPA requirements who stopped for gas who was arrested?
no reason to stop in NY state. gas up before you get into NY, do not stop.I've driven across the country twice (armed to the teeth) and drove via Scranton. Incidentally this is also the way I go if visiting Philly.
Lock your shit up, don't speed and dont over think it.