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The unofficial ultimate why is 40 S&W so hated MEGATHREAD!!!!

fencer said:
but carry a 5 7-round snubby, chambered in 357 mag, with a 2-1/2" 3"-barrel.:rolleyes:
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[banana]
;
If you were a gun owner before the Miami FBI shoot out you were probably carrying a .38 or .45. The race to caliber in 'common use' was won by the 9mm. Lots of older people and FUDDs have just stuck with what they know. I'd carry a 10mm before the .40. To each his own.
 
Mesatchornug said:
I want to neck down a 45 case to 40...
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Well, if you insist:

400 Cor-Bon

327753.jpg
 
Sammy said:
You do know 9mm is older than 38, 40, 45. If "Two world wars" are old, then 9mm is ancient. Who's old and incapable of accepting anything new, eh?
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I do. I didn't say when it ran the race. Just that it was one of the top finishers. But, point taken.
 
My brother in law bought a Glock 23 in about 1992 or so. Shooting was never his thing so he sold it to me for $250. I have to admit, I like it. It’s accurate, reliable, powerful, and easy to conceal. I carry it fairly often.

Don’t think for a second that this means I don’t own, carry, and appreciate other weapons. I love the back and forth on this too.
 
TG Pioneer said:
My brother in law bought a Glock 23 in about 1992 or so. Shooting was never his thing so he sold it to me for $250. I have to admit, I like it. It’s accurate, reliable, powerful, and easy to conceal. I carry it fairly often.

Don’t think for a second that this means I don’t own, carry, and appreciate other weapons. I love the back and forth on this too.
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Is he married to your brother? Sorry too easy. You'll be able to sell it to the new "glock collectors " for big bucks some day
 
www.theboxotruth.com

The Buick O' Truth #1 - Windshields Inside/Out

People often wonder and debate about cars and how they react to being shot with various types of weapons and ammunition. The best way to find out the answer to those various car-related shooting questions is to actually shoot some cars. First, let's consider a situation sometimes faced by...
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jaymce said:
View attachment 718017View attachment 718018
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I do recall coming on here early in my NES time and asking if a tungsten guide rod and replacement spring would actually reduce muzzle flip noticeably in a .40s&w and being laughed out of town. Since then I do my best to only contribute off color humor and bad advice to slowly bring NES down from the inside.
 
Bigfudge16 said:
I do recall coming on here early in my NES time and asking if a tungsten guide rod and replacement spring would actually reduce muzzle flip noticeably in a .40s&w and being laughed out of town. Since then I do my best to only contribute off color humor and bad advice to slowly bring NES down from the inside.
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There are dozens of us
 
Mountain said:
So basically all the rabid 9mm fans are extolling the virtues of the FBI's skinflinting initiative?

The FBI switched from 40 to 9mm in large part because of the volume of ammo used by field agents and the entirety of the FBI during training etc. For an organization with approximately 35,000 employees, the vast majority of whom need firearms training the cost savings using 9mm is huge.
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Saving money was their main driving force.

Ironically a box of Gold Dot hollow points 9mm is around $35 and 40 Gold Dot hollow points is $25.

So the savings has gone away with the demand.

Also, get set up to reload and all of your training ammo is less than 25 cents per round. Pretty much pays for itself after a few range trips.
 
KrymSIX said:
I shoot limited major so I reload 40 so it just made sense for my home defense/carry gun to be in 40. Just adjust my OAL setting and powder and crank out training ammo for my HD gun or my competition gun depending on the day.
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DW357 said:
It’s a relatively popular caliber in the action shooting sports (USPSA). In the Limited division.
Companies like Atlas Gunworks making some of their guns in .40 and they cost $5k plus.

Atlas Titan RDS - Atlas Gunworks

www.atlasgunworks.com www.atlasgunworks.com

Anyway, enough with the serious talk. Beyond the competition world, it’s ghey I guess?
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USPSA Limited major is the only reason I own 3.5 guns in 40. If limited optics passes as minor only it will make 40 even less popular. In the last year people have given me large quantities of 40 brass for free since they don't load it anymore. To me 40 is versatile for competition. It works well at minor and major power factors. You don't have to deal with crimped and stepped brass like 9mm.
 
Mountain said:
So basically all the rabid 9mm fans are extolling the virtues of the FBI's skinflinting initiative?

The FBI switched from 40 to 9mm in large part because of the volume of ammo used by field agents and the entirety of the FBI during training etc. For an organization with approximately 35,000 employees, the vast majority of whom need firearms training the cost savings using 9mm is huge.
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I don't doubt the cost savings, but what's the source claiming "in large part?"

The rough numbers I ran say that in a mid-sized pistol like a Glock 19/23, compared to 9mm + P, .40 gives you about 18% more muzzle energy and a fractionally wider wound cavity. In exchange, you carry 2 fewer rounds in a standard capacity magazine, pay about 15% more per round, and experience about 25% more felt recoil. It's also harder to buy .40 "on impulse" than 9mm, but that doesn't apply to the FBI nor to many of us.

I find those a reasonable set of tradeoffs and the choice between them almost entirely subjective. And no, I don't shoot .40.
 
KrymSIX said:
Saving money was their main driving force.

Ironically a box of Gold Dot hollow points 9mm is around $35 and 40 Gold Dot hollow points is $25.

So the savings has gone away with the demand.

Also, get set up to reload and all of your training ammo is less than 25 cents per round. Pretty much pays for itself after a few range trips.
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Even cheaper if you cast.

I shoot much more 10mm than .40, but I reload the 10mm. Once I have the brass, any cost difference is negligible.
 
It was my understanding that at the time of it's creation and initial use, .40 S&W had some rather appreciable strengths over 9mm. However, 30 years of advancement is nothing to scoff at. Modern projectile materials, manufacturing techniques, better powders and much better guns to shoot them out of means that the benefits .40 originally enjoyed just don't exist anymore. Felt recoil is as subjective as it gets, and like all recoil, can be mitigated with design, parts, and technique. As far as energy, there is no real advantage. A defensive round that is 115 grains doing 1400 fps is going to be indistinguishable from a 135 grain projectile traveling 1400 fps apart from some slightly higher recoil. How much higher? About 17% assuming two of the same model with different chamberings. And if you are on the receiving end? Oh thank god this bullet had 501 ft-lbs of energy and not 588, otherwise I might be dead from this center mass shot 1 minute sooner!

The real argument at the end the day though is completely moot. With so many options for what to shoot in any given caliber, and what to shoot it out of, and the situation in which you will be shooting, the possibilities and end results are literally endless.

edit: punctuation and some wordings
 
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Bigfudge16 said:
I do recall coming on here early in my NES time and asking if a tungsten guide rod and replacement spring would actually reduce muzzle flip noticeably in a .40s&w and being laughed out of town. Since then I do my best to only contribute off color humor and bad advice to slowly bring NES down from the inside.
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This is the way.
 
my only gripe with 40 is the feed ramp/set back/BOOM problem

There are too many 40's out there for the ammo to go away IMHO, if people buy it, manufacturers will make it.

We all know the stories and urban myths about how it came to be, the 10mm was too much for the poor shooters in law enforcement so they dumbed the round down to allow the lowest common denominator to be able to handle it, hence the moniker "short and weak"

It is not a bad round, it has decent ballistics, but there is no arguing that the original concept 10MM is superior in every way.

Now does anyone want to discuss 10mm cases necked down to take 9mm bullets.... better known as the .357Sig?

The solution to the problem that didn't exist IMHO.

9mm seems to be a good fit for most people, but 10mm is a good choice for other things like walking around in bear country

I have never heard of anyone looking for superior stopping power that said "I'm going to go buy a 40".
 
After 25 years of shooting, I've watched the debate run from 9mm to 45 to 40 back to 45 and back to 9mm. Each side has statistics and tests and such on their side.

WTF cares? Honestly. Shoot what you want. Practice. Move on. My gosh. People butt-hurt over what someone else shoots. I just don't get it. "Ooooh, he shoots (insert caliber here). If he gets too close, it will want me to shoot it too!!!!" Just like tehgay, you can't catch it from standing next to it. So calm hte F down!
 
Waher said:
The 40 caliber by S&W will be rebranded/reimagined/relaunched as 10mm Kurz by H&K and then it will be a the 'hot' caliber again. [rolleyes]

The only thing it has going for it vs. modern 9mm ammunition, compared to when it was first introduced, is marginally better penetration of car doors and laminated glazing like automotive windshields. This is why some highway patrols stuck with .40 S&W due to their frequency of having shootouts with people using stopped cars as cover. For anyone else there's not a compelling reason to use .40S&W.
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Wouldn't that be 10mm GAP ? I actually wouldn't mind trying that. But, the velocities better be good enough to buy another gun. Because the .40 guns out there wouldn't be able to take it. They already get cracks
 
Hailstorm said:
Wouldn't that be 10mm GAP ? I actually wouldn't mind trying that. But, the velocities better be good enough to buy another gun. Because the .40 guns out there wouldn't be able to take it. They already get cracks
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.357 Sig was the original special caliber attempt for autoloaders to sell to the highway patrol market (Texas or the CHIP requested the development). .40 S&W only became a thing because of the FBI setting a standard the rest of law enforcement followed like lemmings.
 
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