On the lightest load, yep.Once you get passed that. 10mm has the 40 over a barrel
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The unofficial ultimate why is 40 S&W so hated MEGATHREAD!!!!
- Thread starter Rockrivr1
- Start date
Well, even Mister Coyle acknowledged that the 10mm round initially adopted was an improvement over the FBI's 9mm round.
I'll admit that I am not a big believer in the all-new 21st century "magical 9mm round" thinking that most people have now accepted. Most folks and agencies dumping the 10mm Kurz round for 9mm seem to be doing it for: a) cost savings and, b) more ammo capacity.
And "more ammo" seems to be the main order of the day. It seems to take a whole lot of ammo to stop today's criminals.
There's nothing magical about it, the "magic" is that when people started really looking at better data, caliber didn't matter so much, and in turn shot placement and penetration mattered a whole lot more than they previously thought.
Yeah, I'll take the warm fuzziness LOL. I am not a small person nor recoil averse, so bye to half the anti .40 arguments right there.
My hunting buddy likes to preach low brass small shot to increase chances of hitting the birds but not do too much damage to the meat. On our recent outing I tried the no. 8's he recommended for the quail. We dropped 10 of them but over half went pretty far after being shot. One I shot flew over 100 yards so I thought it was a miss until it dropped like it hit a wall. LOL I was halfway there to pick it up when a f-ing hawk swooped down to steal it.
I'll take more energy, please- assuming the trade off is negligible. One thing I do think a bit silly is having a sub-compact in anything but 9mm.
I basically carried 40s for a good number of years until I basically woke up and figured out it was stupid. It was literally like I put my P2000 LEM on my
belt one day and sue simmons came out and went:
Realistically though it was more than just .40. .40 was just another casualty. It was like "You're carrying a .40 in a gun that doesnt naturally point correctly and your trigger is either a weird DAO analog (LEM) or shit like DA/SA..." so I basically killed all of those things simultaneously because I thought all of them were stupid.
I happened to be moving over to Glock not long after, so the 40s mostly got flushed out, with the last one being gone around late 2013. I did recently pick up another USP .40 V1 though, but I basically did that as a favor for a friend who was hard up for cash. It was a good bundle deal at least, and at least that gun is set up nice. that is the only 40 I own and hopefully will be the only one and that the number will go back to zero once he buys it back from me, lol.
There definitely is a huge problem with tiny fag guns in 40 though. Things like Shield 40, PM40, MK40 = shitty and insane. .40 out of guns that small is
stupid. If someone is going to carry a 40, it should be a G23 or larger.
LOL I hear you on the birdshot too. Hell even when I do sporting clays I like 7.5s and I'd shoot fiocchi crushers all day every day given half a chance. "JUICE!!!!!!!"
greencobra
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on the days i wear my pink panties with the rainbow patch on the left cheek, i like to strut with my g27. she's still a looker makes grown men weep.
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Those that "hate" .40 all boil down to:
10mm is for those who love 40 but are too homophobic to appear "gay while carrying".
9mm is for those who are too gay and flamboyant but afraid to show it!
40 is for those who are not afraid of their gayness, straightness, whatever'ness. Basically, for those who have came out of the closet!
- "FBI is dumb". turns out 9mm sucked back then.
- 40 S&W was created for FBI because thye asked for it. A lie. 40 was a cartridge in development since the 70's. One of its creators was working at S&W and was continuing development of the cartrdige. When FBI came out with the RFP for new cartridges, S&W already have had development complete and ready to go.
- 40S&W is a cut down 10mm. Another lie. 40 caliber was indevelopment by two individuals. One of them was asked to create a more powerful version of the 40 and that's how 10mm was born and NOT the other other way around.
- 9mm had improved its ballistics is utter garbage too. 9mm Ball ammo is the same ammo as it was in 1950's and it sucks as personal defense round. What changed is the popularity of of "Heavy for caliber" cartridges. Heavy 9mm commercial ammo was very rare until the mid-90's when the trend began towards stuffing heavy bullets in the front. 147gr bullets popular. It was a specific manufacturer 147gr JHP ammo that was used in tests. That very specific brand and weight of bullet was show to come close enough to basic performance of 160gr 40 for the differences to negligible. it does not mean that all other 147gr ammo is the same, nor any other 9mm weight ammor. Fact is, 115gr is the most commonly sold ammo in the US. So no, 9 and 40 are not the same.
- 40 recoils "too much" and "too weak" at the same time. 9mm users say it kicks too much while while staying quiet about how much a 147gr 9mm self-defense round kicks. It kick quite a bit!. Meanwhile, 10mm users are complaining that 40 is "too weak" and that 10mm is better, forgetting that 10mm also requires a whole new type of gun to handle 10mm while 40SW can easily swap with 9mm(G17/G22, and G19/G23 is a perfect example).
10mm is for those who love 40 but are too homophobic to appear "gay while carrying".
9mm is for those who are too gay and flamboyant but afraid to show it!
40 is for those who are not afraid of their gayness, straightness, whatever'ness. Basically, for those who have came out of the closet!
Dante231
NES Member
I don't know how anyone reloads for this. The bullet is 10 cents, the primer is close to 10 cents, powder and brass (which I get can be reused but doesn't last forever) costs more than 5cents. Everyone keeps talking about how reloading is saving money, but 9mm and 223 remans are cheaper than what you can reload for. If you're just blasting at the range, what difference does it make?
I put a 9mm conversion barrel in my G35, so now the only functioning .40 I have is the G23C. The G35 was dirt cheap and now it's a G34 but with a much nicer barrel. As soon as I move to a normal state the G23C becomes the utility glove box gun / truck gun. Actually the G23C was cheap as well. 13 rounds vs. the 15 in a G19? Potato potahto.
For anyone not familiar with the discontinued Glock 23C, it's approx the size of a G19 but in .40 cal with factory porting in the barrel and slide. The awesome port flash might not be good for your night vision but you can simply find the perps by smell after they shit themselves...
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Mesatchornug
NES Member
I put a 9mm conversion barrel in my G35, so now the only functioning .40 I have is the G23C. The G35 was dirt cheap and now it's a G34 but with a much nicer barrel. As soon as I move to a normal state the G23C becomes the utility glove box gun / truck gun. Actually the G23C was cheap as well. 13 rounds vs. the 15 in a G19? Potato potahto.
For anyone not familiar with the discontinued Glock 23C, it's approx the size of a G19 but in .40 cal with factory porting in the barrel and slide. The awesome port flash might not be good for your night vision but you can simply find the perps by smell after they shit themselves...
Wait. Was @Venturini556 your creative writing exercise?
![[rofl2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/035.gif "ROFL2 [rofl2]")
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.40 sucks. I shoot '10mm kurz'
I won't reload for 9mm and probably will not anytime soon unless I get into some sort of competition that burns tons of it. For .223 range blasting I typically buy a box or case of the cheap stuff as well. Same deal for 7.62x39 AK food- cheaper to just buy it. 10mm is way cheaper to reload and .40 uses same dies so I go ahead and reload .40. Reloading .458 socom is the only way to go for range fun without robbing a bank. I reload .308, .30-06, and a few other rifle calibers not only for competition but because the reloads are much cheaper. I do reload .223 for match shooting 200 to 600 yards.
Wait. Was @Venturini556 your creative writing exercise?
Huh? That must be someone else's sock puppet account. Did I miss something funny? Did he get a forum 'vacation'?
Mesatchornug
NES Member
I think he was the same one that claimed to be building a case against his local Denny's. Early on, he claimed to have a rare G23C that [I forget who] probably couldn't even afford.
Might have been a sockpuppet. Might have just been a child. Either burned out or got bounced.
(I'm sure if you ever made an alt, it would be much funnier)
LOL funny how unpopular becomes 'rare'. I do only see one G23C on Gunbroker but it's overpriced and not going to move. Maybe that's where he went- 24/7 hitting refresh on his GB listing.
I doubt I could ever sell the 23C- not because it's awesome but quite the opposite. I'm a big softy for misfit toys.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
CRSIII
NES Member
That about sums it up.
.
The .40SW was technically a success because it had backing from the ammo industry, it has been around for a while and almost every gun owner either owns one or owned one at some point or knows it exists.
Not necessarily, look at all the 357 we dont have anymore. Like the 357 Maximum. The name alone makes you want to jump into an arena with lions and shoot them. Same with 357 DW.I've said all along that the only thing wrong with the .40 S&W is that they named it wrong. Had someone else (not S&W) thought it up and named it the "10mm Kurz" (or any other better-conceived marketing name with "10mm" in it), it would still be wildly popular today, snappy as Hell or not. Marketing is everything and it should have been marketed as the 10mm round designed specifically for carry.
The .40SW was technically a success because it had backing from the ammo industry, it has been around for a while and almost every gun owner either owns one or owned one at some point or knows it exists.
That is not accurate.
Brass can be reused so much the price should be ignored. I have reloaded 9mm over 10 times, no issues, and I used and undersized sizing die and reload with 358 bullets, so I work that brass like a whore.
Powder prices vary, but let's say you use 3 grains of N320 (expensive powder) = 2,333 rounds per pound. Midway has a 4lbs container for $44/lbs = $0.018 / round. Let's round to 0.02
Primers per K at TSUSA are $83/K so 0.08 per round.
Bullets, Bayou, which are expensive, are 0.092/round for 145 grain with free shipping, so we will use the higher 0.10 price to make up for powder shipping.
0.02 + 0.08 + 0.10 = 0.20/round
That 0.020 per round is tailored to your specific gun and specific use and it is still cheaper than the cheapest 9mm, and you don't need to stress about finding it or wait for TSUSA to deal with UPS because your ammo never arrived (my case today, been waiting 2 weeks for 5 sh*tty boxes).
The components mentioned above are expensive, there are good powders for 9mm that are cheaper than N320, for example there is a shotgun powder you can buy it at almost 50% the price of N320 that people in steel challenge use. Turns out it s*cks for shotgun but is great for 9mm. Bullets can also be found cheaper.
So let's say the cost can be a range between $0.15 and $0.20.
For match grade ammo.
I have done the same math so many times. People always compare apples to oranges. You are looking at the cheapest ammo and comparing it against reloads. Not only the reloads will perform better for that specific gun and application, they are also cheaper.
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.40 is right between 9mm and .45, and it is too easy to get confused with either one when loading your magazines.
It's like loading .380 and 9mm pistols at the same time , someone is going to make a boo boo.
It's like loading .380 and 9mm pistols at the same time , someone is going to make a boo boo.
allen-1
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Please tell me you’re not serious
Tallahassee
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I prefer "full millimeter".
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