The Second Amendment does NOT give you the right to bear arms.

[Rob Boudrie]

So does Nature....

Not really. There is tremendous unbalanced chirality between isomers of the same molecule in nature. There is also the mis-balance between matter and anti-matter as well as the speculated misbalance between light and dark matter.

What nature abhors is a vacuum.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

nearly every school child has at least read the Bill of Rights and/or Constitution.

Under curriculum committee approved interpretation provided by their teacher to tell them what it means.

 

[safetyfirst2125]

The Second Amendment does NOT give you the right to bear arms, God does. The 2A prevents the government from infringing on that right.

If anyone argues with you about that, tell them to read the constitution again and stop arguing in bad faith.

DYK? Jesus basically said “buy guns, buy ammo”

LUKE 22:35,38:

[Jesus] said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one....The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.

 

[drgrant]

Jesus only wants me to have 2 guns though. Maybe he's partly a fudd.... jk

 

[Drix]

So, as an atheist, am I denied my rights?

I agree the constitution is SUPPOSED to keep the government from infringing the right. But I believe it to be a "natural right" as in every being has a right to life, not "god granted." (and yes, I oppose abortion on the same basis)

If you're atheist your creator is your parents and you still have inalienable rights.

With this said though, we're arguing a line from the Declaration of Independence and it's applicability to the Constitution. The preamble for the Bill of Rights states:

THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.

If you want to know who grants these rights, its the states, or we the people if you want to use the Constitution's preamble.

Your inalienable rights are specifically Life, Liberty, and pursuit of Happiness, although there is implication of others.

Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Once again here, your right to bear arms derives from the government, (states) or we the people that make up the government.

 

[safetyfirst2125]

Jesus only wants me to have 2 guns though. Maybe he's partly a fudd.... jk

Jesus would have known the future so knew how many would be needed

They were disciples too so, were on the political hit list of the DOJ of the day. No need to draw attention when they went through Roman NCIS background checks.

 

[weekendracer]

DYK? Jesus basically said “buy guns, buy ammo”

LUKE 22:35,38:

[Jesus] said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one....The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.

View attachment 479324

So even Jesus knew, 2 is 1 and 1 is none?
I'm a big fan of Psalm 144.1. Not a religious person, don't care if I misinterpret it.
Of David. Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.

 

[fshalor]

“....that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,...”

There’s no “God” in the Bill of Rights.

My parents gave me the right. God gave me the right. I have no problem with either of those statements.

 

[fshalor]

Jesus only wants me to have 2 guns though. Maybe he's partly a fudd.... jk

Most people them didn't count over 2 frequently. And two is more than one.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Your inalienable rights are specifically Life, Liberty, and pursuit of Happiness, although there is implication of others.

You skipped a critical part in the quote [bold mine]

"certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

It is explicit in the preamble that there are other natural rights. Contemporaries (and scholars thereof) would recognize the structure as paralleling Locke (life, liberty, property/estate) and English common law (life, liberty, dower).

 

[safetyfirst2125]

DYK? Jesus basically said “buy guns, buy ammo”

LUKE 22:35,38:

[Jesus] said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one....The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.

View attachment 479324

I note Jesus said to buy swords. Not concealable daggers. Not knives to stash in your IWB holster. Swords. The equivalent of an AR-15 today. You can’t easily conceal a sword. So he was suggesting open carry of the AR-15 of the day. And the sword was a serious defensive weapon. Basically, it appears he wanted the best defensive protection for his peeps as he knew it was about to hit the fan.

FWIW Bible commentator Dr J Vernon McGee agrees with my assessment. A bunch of liberal commentators claim Jesus was only speaking “figuratively” and actually didn’t mean “swords” when he said “swords”.

 

[safetyfirst2125]

I note Jesus said to buy swords. Not concealable daggers. Not knives to stash in your IWB holster. Swords. The equivalent of an AR-15 today. You can’t easily conceal a sword. So he was suggesting open carry of the AR-15 of the day. And the sword was a serious defensive weapon. Basically, it appears he wanted the best defensive protection for his peeps as he knew it was about to hit the fan.

FWIW Bible commentator Dr J Vernon McGee agrees with my assessment. A bunch of liberal commentators claim Jesus was only speaking “figuratively” and actually didn’t mean “swords” when he said “swords”.
View attachment 479453
View attachment 479454

Other evidence Jesus actually meant for the disciples to go buy swords? They actually went and BOUGHT SWORDS.

See a few verses later in Luke 22:49 (which occurs some unknown days after the order to go buy swords):

“When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, should we strike with our swords?"

So, yeah, Jesus basically said go buy guns and ammo.

So if the Creator of the Universe thinks it’s wise to buy guns and ammo, I think it’s a good idea to go buy guns and ammo.

 

[Drix]

You skipped a critical part in the quote [bold mine]

"certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

It is explicit in the preamble that there are other natural rights. Contemporaries (and scholars thereof) would recognize the structure as paralleling Locke (life, liberty, property/estate) and English common law (life, liberty, dower).

I didn't miss that at all, as a matter of fact my quote in your post explicitly nods to the implication of others.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I didn't miss that at all, as a matter of fact my quote in your post explicitly nods to the implication of others.

My point is that you keep saying it's implied when it's not. They explicitly state there are other rights beyond the three when they say "among these rights are."

 

[paul73]

My point is that you keep saying it's implied when it's not. They explicitly state there are other rights beyond the three when they say "among these rights are."

founding fathers were just way too proficient with language arts, and it was used again and again against the whole point of what they wrote about by their countless successors.
they should have dumbed it down to certain unavoidable declaratives that are physically impossible to misinterpret by common imbeciles.

 

[Win]

The larger issue, and what we need to be able to argue is, where do our rights come from? If they are granted by government then there's no objective argument against the government taking those rights away. The rights need to come from something that is a level higher than the government.

 

[Fishfinder]

Most people think that a "well regulated militia" means the national guard and not citizens.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

FWIW, the God of Mohammed is also the God of Joseph, so yeah, Muslims, Christians and Jews all worship the same God, but can’t agree on a number of specifics hence a thousand years of religious wars.

As to atheists, feel free to be a heathen, it’s also a protected right. God loves you even if you don’t believe... of course, you’re still going to hell for your disbelief.

Atheist here.

I'm going to Hell? Wouldn't I have to have faith to believe in a Hell?

 

[paul73]

Most people think that a "well regulated militia" means the national guard and not citizens.

well regulated - means anything any new generation wants, as it is the core of the art of interpretation.

 

[drgrant]

Atheist here.

I'm going to Hell? Wouldn't I have to have faith to believe in a Hell?

meh, we're already in hell, we live in massachusetts.

 

[MGnoob]

you guys have to stop with your “rights”....
Imagine paying an attorney to tell you that you don’t really have rights?

It’s good advice

 

[Chevy 2 65]

 

[Fishfinder]

The Second Amendment does NOT give you the right to bear arms, God does. The 2A prevents the government from infringing on that right.

If anyone argues with you about that, tell them to read the constitution again and stop arguing in bad faith.

Where does it say that God gives rights?
I never understood the whole "god given right" statement. Is god aware he's giving out rights or is that just something man made up?

 

[gene]

More than 99% of Americans have not read the bill of rights or the constitution. We have one of the lowest rated education systems in the world. Yet we pay the most in taxes collectively to fund our corrupt government.
I was told at a young age, the government doesn't want us to be "too" educated because if we were, lot's of us would start questioning the government . Btw, did you see the dress that Kim Kardashian wore the other day?

All you have to do is look at what some people are electing to congress to see the decline of common sense and education in America.

 

[bullseye]

Where does it say that God gives rights?
I never understood the whole "god given right" statement. Is god aware he's giving out rights or is that just something man made up?

You obviously never received a book of S&H Greenstamps!

 

[Fishfinder]

You obviously never received a book of S&H Greenstamps!

What is that?

 

[MisterHappy]

What is that?

q.v.: S&H Green Stamps - Wikipedia

I can remember redeeming them for an electric can-opener at the S&H place (Waltham, I think) when I was a kid.

 

[mav]

Atheist here.

I'm going to Hell? Wouldn't I have to have faith to believe in a Hell?

Nope. Think of it this way: If you’re correct as an atheist and there is no God, there is no afterlife. When we die, our brain activity stops, our consciousness dissipates with the lack of brain activity, our body rots and that’s it.

If I’m correct and there is a Christian God, an afterlife and a heaven and hell, then sinners and non-believers will leave this plane at death and end up in Hell. Your belief is irrelevent as either nothing happens after death or something does, and if something does ( my belief), your disbelief ensures which side you end up on.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Nope. Think of it this way: If you’re correct as an atheist and there is no God, there is no afterlife. When we die, our brain activity stops, our consciousness dissipates with the lack of brain activity, our body rots and that’s it.

If I’m correct and there is a Christian God, an afterlife and a heaven and hell, then sinners and non-believers will leave this plane at death and end up in Hell. Your belief is irrelevent as either nothing happens after death or something does, and if something does ( my belief), your disbelief ensures which side you end up on.

Pascal's wager comes to mind.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Nope. Think of it this way: If you’re correct as an atheist and there is no God, there is no afterlife. When we die, our brain activity stops, our consciousness dissipates with the lack of brain activity, our body rots and that’s it.

If I’m correct and there is a Christian God, an afterlife and a heaven and hell, then sinners and non-believers will leave this plane at death and end up in Hell. Your belief is irrelevent as either nothing happens after death or something does, and if something does ( my belief), your disbelief ensures which side you end up on.

Solid response, wasn't expecting that. 12 years of Catholic schooling did this to me. Around grade 6 or so, HARD BLOCK