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The Marines went to the M16A4.
“The proposal to replace the M16A4 with the M4 within infantry battalions is currently under consideration at Headquarters Marine Corps,” Maj. Anton Semelroth, a Marine spokesman, told the Marine Corps Times in an e-mail.
Right, and they are looking to move away from the M16A4 and move to the M4
I thought USCG were the only ones still using the M16A2. Thought the combat arms types had switched over entirely to M-4's.
“ounces equal pounds, pounds equal pain.”
So true, so true.
All the tough boys that sing the glory songs about the 7.62mm , I really would like to see you complete a 50 mile hike with an AK + 7 mags or an M4 + 7 mags, or run and roll for cover, those few pounds of difference influencing your speed might mean one limb less, or one life less. You'll basically marry a M16 platform after that.
In WWII they managed quite well with 30-06 but saving weight and or being able to carry more ammo is a definite advantage.
And able to kick Kraut butt, millions in a few short years. We like our modern wars drawn out in decades and only kicking a few hundred thousand in that short timeframe. I happily loved my M4, this is why I have several now, along with my several old timers rifle, the Garand.I believe they were also carrying a lot less crap in WWII.
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what is the difference between an M4 and an M16A4?
the army still requires qualification with iron sights. Then the Soldier attaches the cco and quals with that. In case the cco fails the Soldier needs to be able to use iron sights. The m4 is not a flat top rifle like civilians drool over. You actually can sight through the cco and use irons.Much like anything else change comes from prices,needs, and end use. I think the average GI will shoot a M4 carbine or A4 rifle to about the same accuracy as what ever they are using for ammo?
Also with the switch from MARKSMENSHIP to optics there's no need for a longer sight radius.
Logistically it makes sense also.
Um sorry. My entire unit was issued the m4in 2010 for our deployment and they are not flat top. The ccco attaches and u can still see the iron sites throug the ccoM16A4 looks much like an A2 - 20" barrel and a fixed stock. It does have a removable carry handle.
The M4 has a 14" barrel, flat top, and collapsible butt stock.
I believe they were also carrying a lot less crap in WWII.
Same old story. Everyone wants to carry light and when the SHTF they all want the heavy stuff. Thing is, if you don't hump it through the boonies, you shoot what you hump. Nothing is free.
I do have to say, the M4 is pretty darn slick.
Um sorry. My entire unit was issued the m4in 2010 for our deployment and they are not flat top. The ccco attaches and u can still see the iron sites throug the cco
But no one really carries light, that's the deal, we had mm.. 50lbs of gear on us when in full gear, if it's 10 or 17lbs than the spread is not big deal, if it's 50 or 57 it is a pretty darn big deal. The get go is that you are going to be piled with so much crap, might as well save some on the ammo weight, or for the same "price" carry 30-40 rounds more.
it's great to carry a 7.62 load if you're jumping from a vehicle or from above, when your day to day opp was walking.. and walking.. and crawling, you become somewhat fanatic about the weight.
I wonder if it's noticeable about me
But no one really carries light, that's the deal, we had mm.. 50lbs of gear on us when in full gear, if it's 10 or 17lbs than the spread is not big deal, if it's 50 or 57 it is a pretty darn big deal. The get go is that you are going to be piled with so much crap, might as well save some on the ammo weight, or for the same "price" carry 30-40 rounds more.
it's great to carry a 7.62 load if you're jumping from a vehicle or from above, when your day to day opp was walking.. and walking.. and crawling, you become somewhat fanatic about the weight.
I wonder if it's noticeable about me
Oh, I dunno. Jumping from a plane is already heavy enough; the heaviest ruck I ever jumped topped 80 lbs, though in fairness I got rid of the radio as soon as I landed.
As as for walking, well, paratroopers do plenty of that too. Jumping is just the commute; after that, you're just another light fighter.
i feel if you train to haul 7.62, you'll do fine hauling 7.62; if you don't, you won't.
Yup. I was responding to this:
The Marines weren't using the M16A2 -- they were using the M16A4 -- and they haven't (yet) switched over to M4s.
We Marines prided ourselves as being "Riflemen". It is kind of hard to do that when you no longer carry, use or train with a rifle.
A "carbine" is not a rifle.
Current Marines have been using ACOG scopes for a few years now, even in bootcamp and to qualify. Since they're using a ACOG anyway, it doesn't make much sense to run the longer barrel.
Rumor is even the CMP will be allowing optics on service rifles for the national matches next year. Proficiency with irons is becoming a lost art.
LOL. Brother you're preaching to the choir. All I know is that no one carried the weight that the machine gunner carried when I was in. ....
We Marines prided ourselves as being "Riflemen". It is kind of hard to do that when you no longer carry, use or train with a rifle.
A "carbine" is not a rifle.
Rumor is even the CMP will be allowing optics on service rifles for the national matches next year.
the army still requires qualification with iron sights. Then the Soldier attaches the cco and quals with that.
The m4 is not a flat top rifle like civilians drool over. You actually can sight through the cco and use irons. Um sorry. My entire unit was issued the m4in 2010 for our deployment and they are not flat top. The ccco attaches and u can still see the iron sites throug the cco
We Marines prided ourselves as being "Riflemen". It is kind of hard to do that when you no longer carry, use or train with a rifle.
A "carbine" is not a rifle.
I heard the same thing at Perry. I REALLY hope that it's just RUMINT. That would be a sad turn of events.