Texas signs

FrugalFannie said:
good for you. I live here now and have been for 7 years (when we aren't traveling)
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So that's cute and all that, but here you are on Ma**h*** shooters thinking you're worldly as f*** while disregarding what other folks know about the US.

hint. I took TX's 30.06 and even 30.07( despite it's newness) into account when I made my earlier post.
 
I'm in TX a couple of times a year, and in fact, will be there in a two weeks. I'll have to keep an eye out for signage while I'm there.


Frank
 
FrugalFannie said:
Oh, I need to wait for the guy who claims MA law is better for gun owners than TX law is because we have binding signage.
We also have constitutional carry now and if you do get your LTC and want to buy a gun at an FFL, you don't have to wait for the background check to come back. And you actually don't need a license to own or possess any firearm related anything here in TX.
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Given that the teeth have been removed from the TX binding signage law, that person would be wrong with the exception of the 51% businesses.

What is obvious is that carry by commoners does not fly under the radar in TX like it does in MA.
 
xjma99 said:
Holy f***, texas has some Gay laws!
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You find this sort of thing is states with new (last 30 years or so) carry permit systems (and those that evolved to con carry) since there was concern that some sort of control still was still needed to keep the commoners in line. The TX 30.06/30.07 stuff started when algorithmic trespass was invented (as in "if you enter in violation of a posted sign it is trespass"). 30.06 was written to clarify property rights while precluding calling it the more serious "Armed criminal trespass". But the fix the TX legislature came up with was "leaving when asked is an affirmative defense". In practice, very similar to MA.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
You find this sort of thing is states with new (last 30 years or so) carry permit systems (and those that evolved to con carry) since there was concern that some sort of control still was still needed to keep the commoners in line. The TX 30.06/30.07 stuff started when algorithmic trespass was invented (as in "if you enter in violation of a posted sign it is trespass"). 30.06 was written to clarify property rights while precluding calling it the more serious "Armed criminal trespass". But the fix the TX legislature came up with was "leaving when asked is an affirmative defense". In practice, very similar to MA.
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Signs signs everywhere signs!! Ahhh!!
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Given that the teeth have been removed from the TX binding signage law, that person would be wrong with the exception of the 51% businesses.

What is obvious is that carry by commoners does not fly under the radar in TX like it does in MA.
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I disagree it actually flies under the radar all the time unless you're involved in something stupid.....
 
The only 51% sign I've ever seen was at the function hall at "Southfork Ranch" from the TV show Dallas.

That comes under a different section of TX law that covers alcoholic beverages. Unlike the 30:05, 30:06, and 30:07 laws it's a felony. That's why those signs are on the entry doors with a bright red background.

Texas3006.com - Your 30.06 & 30.07 Information Resource has a good description of the law and a searchable database. I always check a restaurant before i go.

FrugalFannie said:
@Rob Boudrie keep an eye out for 51% signs. Those are a real PITA. Any establishment which receives 51% or more of it's revenue from sale of alcohol (consumed on premises I believe) has to post a sign but these are usually not posted on the doors but closer to the bar or inside the establishment somewhere and all carry is prohibited. There are places that will post a 51% sign that aren't actually at 51% and they do it to be dickheads and ban carry at all.
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AFAR/PFAR said:
So that's cute and all that, but here you are on Ma**h*** shooters thinking you're worldly as f*** while disregarding what other folks know about the US.

hint. I took TX's 30.06 and even 30.07( despite it's newness) into account when I made my earlier post.
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and all I pointed out is that the signs must be in conformance with the law to be enforceable because there are people on this forum who think if someone scribbles a "no guns allowed" on a piece of paper in TX and puts it on the door, that's enforceable.
I wasn't disregarding anyone's knowledge. As an FYI, I lived in MA/NH/ME most of my life. I was also an NRA instructor in MA. So yeah, I know the laws and the knee jerk reactions people on this forum has.
Grow some thicker skin.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
You find this sort of thing is states with new (last 30 years or so) carry permit systems (and those that evolved to con carry) since there was concern that some sort of control still was still needed to keep the commoners in line. The TX 30.06/30.07 stuff started when algorithmic trespass was invented (as in "if you enter in violation of a posted sign it is trespass"). 30.06 was written to clarify property rights while precluding calling it the more serious "Armed criminal trespass". But the fix the TX legislature came up with was "leaving when asked is an affirmative defense". In practice, very similar to MA.
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well, we can openly carry long guns without any permission. [smile]
 
Rob Boudrie said:
My wife is at a nursing convention (she on the board of the org, so she has to go) and brought me along for "Companionship", though I think my role is gofer and baggage handler. Decided to grab photos of no guns signs to see if any were TX30.06/30.07 compliant.

No signs here:

View attachment 668212

A non-compliant one at Dennys:

View attachment 668213

And Hyatt (though I believe the transport to room part cannot be banned even with a 30.06/.07 sign)

View attachment 668214

And CVS (There are still things TX requires a carry permit for, despite constitutional carry LTC Benefits | Department of Public Safety). MA is currently on the "recognized by TX" (State Reciprocity Information | Department of Public Safety). Since most states are valid in TX, those who play the save the whales game ("collect the whole set") can play "pick a card, any card" if challenged.

View attachment 668224

And finally the one compliant sign I found at the Menger hotel (though it is still bound by the hotel carry for storage law)

View attachment 668215

The penalty for violating a 30.06/30.07 sign in up to $200 with an affirmative defense of leaving the property property promptly after being asked to leave - https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/86R/billtext/pdf/HB00121F.pdf#navpanes=0
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I wonder if some of the establishments are perfectly aware of the signage issues and deliberately posted non compliant signs so they could make their liberal customers happy while not screwing over customers that ARE in their right mind.
 
FrugalFannie said:
and all I pointed out is that the signs must be in conformance with the law to be enforceable because there are people on this forum who think if someone scribbles a "no guns allowed" on a piece of paper in TX and puts it on the door, that's enforceable.
I wasn't disregarding anyone's knowledge. As an FYI, I lived in MA/NH/ME most of my life. I was also an NRA instructor in MA. So yeah, I know the laws and the knee jerk reactions people on this forum has.
Grow some thicker skin.
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That photo of the doorway at the Menger hotel shows just how much real estate compliant signs take up - and they must be posted at every public entrance.

And remember, there is no penalty being armed in a signed area as long as you leave when asked.

+1 to previous comments about the 51% signs.
 
LittleCalm said:
Is it just me or is it ironic that it is 30.06? Or was that intentional?
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It's just ironic, since as part of the Texas Penal Code it comes under Chapter 30, Burglary and Criminal Trespass. It is technically a trespass law and comes after Section 30.05 Criminal Trespass (Sec. 30.01 is definitions and Sec. 30.02 to 30.04 deal with burglary).
 
drgrant said:
Also in TX, if there's an entrance with no signage the prohibition is invalid. Nobody pays attention to that shit there, it was a skid greasing deal to get CHLs passed. A cheap tradeoff, it's rare antis get almost nothing in return.
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Actually, the history is a little bit different. 30.06/30.07 were not part of the original deal, but added later.

The 30.06 came AFTER the CHL law passed. This was because some were claiming that the crime of algorothmic trespass existed (if you violated a condition of entry sign posted on a property, you were guilty of trespass). If upheld, this would constitute the rather serious crime of "armed criminal trespass", so 30.06 was passed. 30.07 was added later.

But, TX being TX, gun law changes do not always tighten like a garotte. A law was subsequently passed that made leaving a 30.06/30.07 posted premises immediately when asked was an affirmative defense to the misdemeanor that bore a max $200 fine. The former governor also signed a declaration establishing unilateral recognition for many other state's LTC/CHLs - and yes, MA is on the list. Plus, of course, that constitutional carry change.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Actually, the history is a little bit different. 30.06/30.07 were not part of the original deal, but added later.

The 30.06 came AFTER the CHL law passed. This was because some were claiming that the crime of algorothmic trespass existed (if you violated a condition of entry sign posted on a property, you were guilty of trespass). If upheld, this would constitute the rather serious crime of "armed criminal trespass", so 30.06 was passed. 30.07 was added later.

But, TX being TX, gun law changes do not always tighten like a garotte. A law was subsequently passed that made leaving a 30.06/30.07 posted premises immediately when asked was an affirmative defense to the misdemeanor that bore a max $200 fine. The former governor also signed a declaration establishing unilateral recognition for many other state's LTC/CHLs - and yes, MA is on the list. Plus, of course, that constitutional carry change.
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If you're asked to leave a properly signed restaurant because the waitress spotted your weapon, does "leave immediately" mean you don't have to pay your bill?
 

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