Target Sports Delivering Again - Megathread

Tinkermatic said:
I read this earlier as well. My question is, with over a billion in sales and a years worth of backlog, at what point do they invest in greater manufacturing capabilities, assuming they even can? (raw materials and input shortages?)
Or, do they just let the demand surplus remain, and not risk having an eventual supply surplus much like the one that led to the most recent low prices and availability. Deadweight loss and whatnot.
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if you increase the supply, then you run the risk that increased supply will reduce the pressure that keeps the prices up. As long as you're selling everything you make at top dollar, why rock the boat?
 
AND, the situation is going to get far far worse very very very soon.

I have stopped getting notified and will not renew the membership.
 
G Port said:
if you increase the supply, then you run the risk that increased supply will reduce the pressure that keeps the prices up. As long as you're selling everything you make at top dollar, why rock the boat?
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Because when supply/demand is as out of equilibrium as it is, it’s an inefficient market. I guarantee many people, myself included, are shooting far less and purchasing far less ammo even if it is available somewhere. Selling out at high prices isn’t necessarily a good thing, especially when they product you’re making is profitable at 1/2 to 1/3 it’s current price. Yes, it’s great to have a billion in sales, but what if you left another potential billion on the table because you were content with selling out and not meeting demand?

As someone else said though, Vista recently acquired Remington and it sounds like they’re in the process of of improving output. So, there’s that.
 
I’m glad I’m not in the ammo manufacturing business right now. You actually have a very weird situation where demand is through the roof but actual consumption is down. Most everyone I know is shooting a lot less now due the the skyrocketing cost of replacement ammo and covid. Most are panic buying ammo “just in case” and just putting it on the shelf. This creates a real problem for the manufactures, since ammo has a very long shelf life (I’ve been know to shoot 40+ year old Greek surplus .30-06 in my M1s). So there is this huge overhang of unexpended ammo out there. The manufactures have to decide if the actual consumption of ammo will go up after all the panic buying or if the demand will just plummet as people consume their on hand stocks. The real question for them is if the 7+ million new gun owners are going to actually shoot their guns, or be the kind that buy a gun, a box or two of ammo, and then just let it sit in some desk drawer.

I’m pretty sure even some of us regular shooters have stockpiled more ammo then we would ever need (at least in some calibers, I know I have way more 7mm Rem Mag then I’ll probably ever shoot). And of the stuff we do use regularly (22lr, 9mm, .45, 5.56x45, etc) if things settle down we might not need to buy anything for a year or two since we’re so overstocked in those calibers.

This is why I just don’t see the manufacturers adding significant capacity in the near future. It’s still too soon to say if the actual consumption of ammunition has gone up significantly from its historical norms.
 
Didn't think this required it's own thread, but Vista Outdoors just announced a $1 billion dollar backlog on ammo, basically a year or more worth of backordered rounds. Sucks.

www.foxbusiness.com

Vista Outdoors reports ammunition backlog of over $1B

Big-name shooting sports company Vista Outdoor Inc. reported “over a year’s worth” of backlogged ammunition orders worth more than $1 billion.
www.foxbusiness.com www.foxbusiness.com
 
cathouse01 said:
I’m glad I’m not in the ammo manufacturing business right now. You actually have a very weird situation where demand is through the roof but actual consumption is down. Most everyone I know is shooting a lot less now due the the skyrocketing cost of replacement ammo and covid. Most are panic buying ammo “just in case” and just putting it on the shelf. This creates a real problem for the manufactures, since ammo has a very long shelf life (I’ve been know to shoot 40+ year old Greek surplus .30-06 in my M1s). So there is this huge overhang of unexpended ammo out there. The manufactures have to decide if the actual consumption of ammo will go up after all the panic buying or if the demand will just plummet as people consume their on hand stocks. The real question for them is if the 7+ million new gun owners are going to actually shoot their guns, or be the kind that buy a gun, a box or two of ammo, and then just let it sit in some desk drawer.

I’m pretty sure even some of us regular shooters have stockpiled more ammo then we would ever need (at least in some calibers, I know I have way more 7mm Rem Mag then I’ll probably ever shoot). And of the stuff we do use regularly (22lr, 9mm, .45, 5.56x45, etc) if things settle down we might not need to buy anything for a year or two since we’re so overstocked in those calibers.

This is why I just don’t see the manufacturers adding significant capacity in the near future. It’s still too soon to say if the actual consumption of ammunition has gone up significantly from its historical norms.
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This is a good take. I’m no economist, but I’m hoping that you’re wrong though.
2020 has broken all sorts of records for gun purchases with something like a 65% increase last month alone. There’s also a not insignificant number of new shooters as well whom, one can assume, don’t have a years worth of ammo stored up. Accounting for both of those trends, if ammunition production stays leveled off, they’ll likely never meet demand.
With that said, taking in to account your thoughts regarding the uncertainty of future demand, I can see why they’d be hesitant to invest in increasing production levels.
My take is heavily skewed by the fact that I need cheap ammo to come back so I can go do a much needed stress-relieving mag dump and be able to replace what I shoot :rolleyes:
 
cathouse01 said:
I’m glad I’m not in the ammo manufacturing business right now. You actually have a very weird situation where demand is through the roof but actual consumption is down. Most everyone I know is shooting a lot less now due the the skyrocketing cost of replacement ammo and covid. Most are panic buying ammo “just in case” and just putting it on the shelf. This creates a real problem for the manufactures, since ammo has a very long shelf life (I’ve been know to shoot 40+ year old Greek surplus .30-06 in my M1s). So there is this huge overhang of unexpended ammo out there. The manufactures have to decide if the actual consumption of ammo will go up after all the panic buying or if the demand will just plummet as people consume their on hand stocks. The real question for them is if the 7+ million new gun owners are going to actually shoot their guns, or be the kind that buy a gun, a box or two of ammo, and then just let it sit in some desk drawer.

I’m pretty sure even some of us regular shooters have stockpiled more ammo then we would ever need (at least in some calibers, I know I have way more 7mm Rem Mag then I’ll probably ever shoot). And of the stuff we do use regularly (22lr, 9mm, .45, 5.56x45, etc) if things settle down we might not need to buy anything for a year or two since we’re so overstocked in those calibers.

This is why I just don’t see the manufacturers adding significant capacity in the near future. It’s still too soon to say if the actual consumption of ammunition has gone up significantly from its historical norms.
Click to expand...

Great point. Ammo is a durable good. It doesn't really go bad unless you use it. I bet 40 Billion plus rounds were sold since March. A lot of that was purchased at decade high prices, and will sit in basements for decades.
 
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andrew1220 said:
Jealous you shoot .50bmg
Is $2.74 per round shipped a decent price? Includes ammo can. 660 gr FMJ. Another vendor has that as well as 50bmg tracer rounds.
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May of last year I was paying $2.30 a round for M33 ball with ammo can, so by current standards $2.76 per round is cheap (only a 20% increase). It seems the most stable price is for M8 API. I’ve been paying $4 a round for that for the last year or so (though you can get it for as low as $2.95 a round if you’re in a free state, you're somewhat limited in vendor choice when living in MA). I guess the demand and supply for 50 BMG API is relatively fixed. :)
 
andrew1220 said:
Jealous you shoot .50bmg
Is $2.74 per round shipped a decent price? Includes ammo can. 660 gr FMJ. Another vendor has that as well as 50bmg tracer rounds.
Click to expand...

When I was buying XM33 in 2013 to build up a stock of brass, I paid 2.89 shipped.

2.76 seems good to me, but I haven't been watching factory ammo prices for a number of years.
 
Did they change their website layout? I can’t find the recently added, it used to be on the homepage?

Edit: I guess I should of looked a few posts up!🤘
 
andrew1220 said:
Jealous you shoot .50bmg
Is $2.74 per round shipped a decent price? Includes ammo can. 660 gr FMJ. Another vendor has that as well as 50bmg tracer rounds.
Click to expand...
Yea that's a good price, very close or the same as pre-covid. Anything under $3.00/rd is good to go for ball ammo or tracer for me, unless it's Hornady amax or specialty rounds like APIT or something, then it's obviously gonna be more. I have the equipment to reload it too, but I don't usually bother unless I want to load some specialty projectiles to play around with.
 
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Already sold out. They took 4 boxes out of my cart as I was trying to checkout.
That's kind of shady imo.
 
connor said:
Already sold out. They took 4 boxes out of my cart as I was trying to checkout.
That's kind of shady imo.
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You're not supposed to tell us you tried to buy it at that price. You gotta be cool and say "I don't pay over .21 cents a round, you guys are fools!" like you got a secret source or put 10 cases away a year ago. Then you gotta tell people to "Ignore the list, buy what you want, I pay $400 for new Glocks, you just gotta know where to look."
 

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