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Straw Purchase or not

Ben Cartwright SASS

Ben Cartwright SASS

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A friend of mine is looking at a gun a north shore gun shop, it is almost 2 hours from his house but only 45 minutes from mine. He wants me to buy it and then sell it to him.
I know I can buy a gun if I am giving it as a gift, although not sure how to answer the 4473 in that case. Or I can buy a gun if I mean to keep it for myself, and if later I don't like it I can sell it and that is not a straw purchase.
But I would think that if I buy it and sell it direct to him, say within a week or so that could be a straw purchase?

He has an LTC as do I. I thought that it was not a straw purchase if you buy a gun and then sell it to someone who is legally able to have it, the straw is when the other person is a PP ??

Another way I just thought of, could I buy it, then decide "I don't like it" and sell it to a local dealer who then sells it to my buddy? My paperwork trail shows it coming to me and then transfer to a dealer and him transferring it to my friend?

Or is there any good legal way to do this?
 
Straw purchase. Legal way to do it is to have the northshore gun shop mail it to a closer gunshop.

- - - Updated - - -

Check out this case to see how seriously the feds take what you are doing. http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2014/06/16/supreme-court-affirms-police-officer-s-felony-conviction-for-buying-gun-for-law-abiding-uncle/
 
Ben Cartwright SASS said:
A friend of mine is looking at a gun a north shore gun shop, it is almost 2 hours from his house but only 45 minutes from mine. He wants me to buy it and then sell it to him.
I know I can buy a gun if I am giving it as a gift, although not sure how to answer the 4473 in that case. Or I can buy a gun if I mean to keep it for myself, and if later I don't like it I can sell it and that is not a straw purchase.
But I would think that if I buy it and sell it direct to him, say within a week or so that could be a straw purchase?

He has an LTC as do I. I thought that it was not a straw purchase if you buy a gun and then sell it to someone who is legally able to have it, the straw is when the other person is a PP ??

Another way I just thought of, could I buy it, then decide "I don't like it" and sell it to a local dealer who then sells it to my buddy? My paperwork trail shows it coming to me and then transfer to a dealer and him transferring it to my friend?

Or is there any good legal way to do this?
Click to expand...
Straw purchase and a big time federal felony. Like browncoat said, let your buddy have the shop mail it to some place closer, or make the drive to the shop himself. It's not worth going to prison over.
 
He wants you to drive 45 minutes + time spent purchasing a gun to save him two hours? Even without the legal ramifications he sure sounds like a crappy friend.
 
Snora said:
He wants you to drive 45 minutes + time spent purchasing a gun to save him two hours? Even without the legal ramifications he sure sounds like a crappy friend.
Click to expand...

1.5 hours + 30 minutes to buy the gun vs 4 hours + 30 minutes ... maybe there is something we don't know
 
robjax said:
so you can't buy a gun for yourself and then decide to buy it used. Where are we? Russia?
Click to expand...

Of course you can, but that's not this case. This is a purchase made by a purchaser at the request of a third party who wishes to acquire the firearm where the purchaser knows at the time of purchase that the firearm will be promptly resold to the third party who had requested that the purchaser acquire the firearm with the intent to resell to the third party.
 
Ben Cartwright SASS said:
A friend of mine is looking at a gun a north shore gun shop, it is almost 2 hours from his house but only 45 minutes from mine. He wants me to buy it and then sell it to him.
I know I can buy a gun if I am giving it as a gift, although not sure how to answer the 4473 in that case. Or I can buy a gun if I mean to keep it for myself, and if later I don't like it I can sell it and that is not a straw purchase.
But I would think that if I buy it and sell it direct to him, say within a week or so that could be a straw purchase?

He has an LTC as do I. I thought that it was not a straw purchase if you buy a gun and then sell it to someone who is legally able to have it, the straw is when the other person is a PP ??

Another way I just thought of, could I buy it, then decide "I don't like it" and sell it to a local dealer who then sells it to my buddy? My paperwork trail shows it coming to me and then transfer to a dealer and him transferring it to my friend?

Or is there any good legal way to do this?
Click to expand...

Tell your friend to drive. That's a classic straw purchase, and it's a federal felony.
 
one of the first questions on the 4473 would require you to give a false answer in this scenario
 
This was pretty much my feeling, that even though we are both legal to own the gun I am buying to sell to him and not buying it as a gift to give to him (he is not THAT good a friend) which would be legal.

The advice I gave him is to call the dealer and buy it over the phone and have it shipped to a dealer near him, adds shipping cost and transfer fee but eliminates issues. I have bought many guns over the phone and had them shipped to a dealer in Mass for me to get.
 
Ben Cartwright SASS said:
A friend of mine is looking at a gun a north shore gun shop, it is almost 2 hours from his house but only 45 minutes from mine. He wants me to buy it and then sell it to him.
I know I can buy a gun if I am giving it as a gift, although not sure how to answer the 4473 in that case. Or I can buy a gun if I mean to keep it for myself, and if later I don't like it I can sell it and that is not a straw purchase.
But I would think that if I buy it and sell it direct to him, say within a week or so that could be a straw purchase?

He has an LTC as do I. I thought that it was not a straw purchase if you buy a gun and then sell it to someone who is legally able to have it, the straw is when the other person is a PP ??

Another way I just thought of, could I buy it, then decide "I don't like it" and sell it to a local dealer who then sells it to my buddy? My paperwork trail shows it coming to me and then transfer to a dealer and him transferring it to my friend?

Or is there any good legal way to do this?
Click to expand...

It sounds like a straw purchase, you would be crazy to get involved with this. And, after you buy it how is your friend going to get it?

He should just have the dealer ship it to another dealer that is closer to where your friend lives, problem solved. The gun has to go from point A to point B one way or the another don't make it so complicated.
 
The only straw purchases that I have even read about being prosecuted are those that are given or sold to a PP or the money changed hands before the sale from the dealer.

While your scenario does not meet the definition of what was intended by the definition of a straw purchase, like many laws, it has been bastardized and re-interpreted to mean something else.

Without any physical evidence like a dated check from your friend to you before the sale from the FFL the state would be hard pressed to make a case that it was a straw purchase since it went through an FFL from you to him. It would like just like you bought a gun with your money at a dealer, got it home, had buyers remorse and decided to sell it to your friend because he wanted one too and the transfer was done through an FFL. I think any DA would be hard pressed to bring charges if both transactions went through an FFL. However there have been at least one case I read about that included a dated check for the same amount of money as the firearm given by the second buyer to the first buyer with a date that was prior to the first FFL transfer.

Have your friend pay for it on the phone and have it shipped to a closer FFL like stated above.
 
If the didn't before we know that they are now.That is the AG reading everything that is written on this forum.
 
Ben Cartwright SASS said:
But I would think that if I buy it and sell it direct to him, say within a week or so that could be a straw purchase?
Click to expand...
Classic "straw purchase" for certain. Fits the definition perfectly.

Then again, Maura says you are already a felon... so what the heck?

Knicks said:
https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

makes me wonder how we now answer 11b
Click to expand...

Ben Cartwright SASS said:
It says "under indictment or information in a court

We have just been accused of a crime by the AG
Click to expand...
Correct. I think you have to answer "yes" to 11b. We all do now. [crying]
 
massvet said:
Cant agree more. Thread should be deleted.
Click to expand...

I don't think so, I am sure there are many people who question the legalities of various transfers and purchases, if we never discuss them who will they learn.

What this thread has shown is that buying for someone other than as a gift is a felony, and that an individual could call the dealer himself and arrange for a purchase and that doing a favor for someone is not legal in this case. If people don't ask they will make mistakes that can be costly
 
Mach said:
The only straw purchases that I have even read about being prosecuted are those that are given or sold to a PP or the money changed hands before the sale from the dealer.

While your scenario does not meet the definition of what was intended by the definition of a straw purchase, like many laws, it has been bastardized and re-interpreted to mean something else.

Without any physical evidence like a dated check from your friend to you before the sale from the FFL the state would be hard pressed to make a case that it was a straw purchase since it went through an FFL from you to him. It would like just like you bought a gun with your money at a dealer, got it home, had buyers remorse and decided to sell it to your friend because he wanted one too and the transfer was done through an FFL. I think any DA would be hard pressed to bring charges if both transactions went through an FFL. However there have been at least one case I read about that included a dated check for the same amount of money as the firearm given by the second buyer to the first buyer with a date that was prior to the first FFL transfer.

Have your friend pay for it on the phone and have it shipped to a closer FFL like stated above.
Click to expand...

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...viction-for-buying-gun-for-law-abiding-uncle/

Abramski vs United States

Even if your buddy could buy it himself and is not a PP, it's still illegal. Avoid avoid avoid!
 
Last edited:

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