storing/transporting/leaving a gun in a vehicle

[treatneverkeepkeep]

Hi all,

Forgive my ignorance, I don't intend to be redundant if this has been covered.....

what are the rules? lets say I'm carrying and out running errands. and decide i need to go to the post office. Is it legal to unholster my pistol and leave it in the vehicle?

Regards

 

[allen-1]

In CONNECTICUT at least, improper storage of a loaded firearm is a criminal offense.
Carrying that pistol into the post office is a federal offense.

The simple solution for this one is to have a secure container in your vehicle to stash your UNLOADED firearm in; the trick is to do so without anyone seeing you and getting upset about the "display of a firearm".

I do NOT know if that's legal in MASSACHUSETTS.

And these aren't "rules", they're "laws", which is kind of petty on my part, but the distinction is that you can lose a lot more by breaking a law than by breaking a rule.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Short answer, no. You can't "just" legally leave it in your vehicle.

MA law says it needs to be in a locked trunk or locked container. Stick around and you will find out that there is MA law, and then what you should do to over comply.

Putting it in any locked box would technically cover you under the letter of the law. Folks will say, cover it, cable it to a seat, hide it. That is up to you.

Bottom line. Make sure it is locked.

Check these out: www.consolevault.com

Any time you see Len2a chime in, listen up. He knows his stuff and says a bunch in a thread I am linking. I found it in two seconds by typing vehicle storage in the search area.

https://www.northeastshooters.com/v...g-Weapon-In-Vehicle?highlight=vehicle+storage

 

[Miamivice]

When the "new" gun control laws came out when the original federal AWB expired MA actually omitted the leaving a firearm unattended in a vehicle statue. Prior to 04 it was illegal to leave a firearm in a vehicle. Now you simply must comply with the regular storage laws.

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[MisterHappy]

OP:

Tread carefully here!

You are in a borderline area.

You are lawful to Carry on your person, in the vehicle (assuming properly licensed), as it is under your direct control

To Transport in your vehicle, the firearm (MGL definition) must be unloaded (no ammo in chamber(s) or in a mag that is in the gun), in a secure, locked container, as it not under your direct control. Mag/loose ammo in the same box is fine.

To Store the gun, it must be disabled with a cable or trigger lock, or locked in a secure container (load status irrelevant).

So, If you're just running in, pop it in a locked box, and go do your business. If you have two errands out of the car, and don't want to re-arm, re-dis-arm, unload it, then box it.

Covering/concealing the box is, as mentioned, a good idea.


Clear as mud, right?

 

[rudiewhitebwoy]

*snip*

OP: To Transport in your vehicle, the firearm (MGL definition) must be unloaded (no ammo in chamber(s) or in a mag that is in the gun), in a secure, locked container, as it not under your direct control. Mag/loose ammo in the same box is fine.

I was under the impression that the ammo/mag was not supposed to be locked in the same container with the firearm.

 

[MisterHappy]

*snip*


I was under the impression that the ammo/mag was not supposed to be locked in the same container with the firearm.

Not to be a PITA, but: cite?


There is no MGL requirement that the ammo be in a separate container. It would be lawful, but weird, to use ammo as "packing peanuts" for an unloaded firearm in a locked container.

Drop the mag, clear the chamber, lock it all in one box. Or, dump the cylinder if you have a wheelgun.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

*snip* I was under the impression that the ammo/mag was not supposed to be locked in the same container with the firearm.

Not to be a PITA, but: cite? There is no MGL requirement that the ammo be in a separate container. It would be lawful, but weird, to use ammo as "packing peanuts" for an unloaded firearm in a locked container. Drop the mag, clear the chamber, lock it all in one box. Or, dump the cylinder if you have a wheelgun.

Correct. Locking ammo in a seperate container is a FOPA thing, not a MA thing.

 

[Knicks]

I've got this for my Tacoma. It does the job

 

[Palladin]

Concealed is concealed

 

[LuvDog]

Here's a hypothetical question.

You're going to the range with a friend. You both have unrestricted LTC.

You have your firearms unloaded and locked in a container on the backseat of a truck. You pick him up and he has his firearms tossed in a range bag but not locked. He puts that bag in the back seat.

would both people be violating transport laws?

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Here's a hypothetical question.

You're going to the range with a friend. You both have unrestricted LTC.

You have your firearms unloaded and locked in a container on the backseat of a truck. You pick him up and he has his firearms tossed in a range bag but not locked. He puts that bag in the back seat.

would both people be violating transport laws?

Depends. Are the ones in the bag "large capacity?" I am not 100% and certainly not a lawyer, but I am pretty sure there is no requirement to lock non large capacity long guns in a container or trunk...(transport, not storage)

Now, I may have just interpreted this next part wrong, and really don't want to steer anyone wrong, but I don't see any requirement to lock unloaded handguns during transport either. I may have just missed it, so don't go doing anything because I said so...

Even if it doesn't violate letter of the law, mass prudence will still prevail in my vehicle.

Here is MGL that I am referring to:

(a) No person carrying a loaded firearm under a license issued pursuant to section 131 or 131F shall carry the loaded firearm in a vehicle unless the loaded firearm while carried in the vehicle is under the direct control of the person. Whoever violates this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(b) No person possessing a large capacity rifle or shotgun under a license issued pursuant to section 131 or 131F shall possess the large capacity rifle or shotgun in a vehicle unless the large capacity rifle or shotgun is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of the vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates this subsection shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.

Now, my educated guess WRT your original question, assuming you meant "large capacity" rifles or shotguns being in your buddy's unlocked range bag... is they would treat it like they found a pound of cocaine if they really wanted to jam you up. You would be treated as if you were both violating the law. But that is the problem with MA... its a crap shoot.

 

[MisterHappy]

Here's a hypothetical question.

You're going to the range with a friend. You both have unrestricted LTC.

You have your firearms unloaded and locked in a container on the backseat of a truck. You pick him up and he has his firearms tossed in a range bag but not locked. He puts that bag in the back seat.

would both people be violating transport laws?

If by "firearm" you mean handgun, or large-cap long gun, then, yes, it's likely that both will be jacked up. (This is based on a Framingham traffic stop where all four persons in the vehicle were arrested on unlawful possession of a firearm - there was one gun in the console.)

If by "firearm" you mean non-large cap long guns, then all is lawful.

Solution? Make sure that your passenger's stuff is in appropriate condition for transport, don't speed, and don't run red lights.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

If by "firearm" you mean handgun, or large-cap long gun, then, yes, it's likely that both will be jacked up. (This is based on a Framingham traffic stop where all four persons in the vehicle were arrested on unlawful possession of a firearm - there was one gun in the console.)

If by "firearm" you mean non-large cap long guns, then all is lawful.

Solution? Make sure that your passenger's stuff is in appropriate condition for transport, don't speed, and don't run red lights.

Do you know if the handgun in that case was loaded or unloaded?

I have always treated HG's as having to be locked or under direct control during transport, and will continue to do so even if it is over complying.

When I went to cite the law for this thread, I saw no mention of HG's except when loaded. Just wondering if I missed something.

 

[MisterHappy]

IIRC loaded.

That's not relevant for unlicensed possession, however.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

IIRC loaded. That's not relevant for unlicensed possession, however.

Were there unlicensed people in the vehicle, or did they all have LTCs?

 

[Miamivice]

Here's a hypothetical question.

You're going to the range with a friend. You both have unrestricted LTC.

You have your firearms unloaded and locked in a container on the backseat of a truck. You pick him up and he has his firearms tossed in a range bag but not locked. He puts that bag in the back seat.

would both people be violating transport laws?

If you can reach the gun then it's under your direct control which is the terminology that all of the case law for carrying or possession follow.

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[MAJoe]

Here's what the FRB FAQ says:

Q: Can I leave my gun in my car if I need to go into the store on my way home from the range or from hunting?
A: If your handgun or large capacity rifle or shotgun is transported in accordance with the provisions of M.G.L. c. 140, §131C (i.e. unloaded and in a locked case, locked trunk or other secure container) then the gun may be left unattended in the vehicle. Weapons transported in this manner will automatically be considered "stored or kept" in compliance with the safe storage requirements of §131L.
A person leaving a non-large capacity rifle or shotgun in an unattended vehicle is required to lock the rifle or shotgun in a case/container or in the trunk, or install a mechanical locking device on the weapon (i.e. cable or trigger lock).

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/firearms-reg-and-laws/frb/frequently-asked-questions.html

 

[MisterHappy]

Were there unlicensed people in the vehicle, or did they all have LTCs?

Something along the lines of gang-bangers, IIRC.

My point in mentioning it was that one gun was "possessed" by all; therefore the improperly transported guns in the hypothetical were a risk for all.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Something along the lines of gang-bangers, IIRC. My point in mentioning it was that one gun was "possessed" by all; therefore the improperly transported guns in the hypothetical were a risk for all.

Got it. General rule of thumb... Assume the law will be interpreted in the worst possible way that is not in your favor.

 

[MisterHappy]

winner, winner, chicken dinner.

 

[dcmdon]

Remember, that the law is different with regards to Transport and Storage.

Assuming you have a LTC-A, the only items that need to be locked in either a container or a trunk are large capacity rifles or shotguns. This is the law. Its not debatable. You may wish to debate the advisability of this. But that is another thing. Also note that trigger locks DO YOU NO GOOD with respect to transport.

When you park the car, you are now dealing with Storage laws. So that Remington 1100 that was legal to transport in a soft case in the back seat of your truck without any locking devices, now needs to be locked when you leave the vehicle with either a locking container or a trigger lock.

Don

Transport: https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131c

Section 131C. (a) No person carrying a loaded firearm under a Class A license issued under section 131 or 131F shall carry the same in a vehicle unless such firearm while carried therein is under the direct control of such person. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500. (Notice that the requirement for direct control only applies to LOADED firearms. (which means handguns because there is another law prohibiting loaded long guns in your vehicle while driving)

(b) omitted, pertains to LTC-B

(c) No person possessing a large capacity rifle or shotgun under a Class A or Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.

Note - with respect to transport, there are no restrictions on unloaded handguns or other firearms other than large capacity rifles or shotguns) Many people forget about the bolded and underlined items above.

Storage: https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131L

 

[M1911]

To Store the gun, it must be disabled with a cable or trigger lock, or locked in a secure container (load status irrelevant).

I would NOT use a cable or trigger lock on a gun stored in a vehicle.

The storage statute allows such cable or trigger locks:

Section 131L. (a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

The problem is that the transport statute does not allow cable or trigger locks:

MGL Chapter 140 Section 131C, in part:

(b) No person carrying a firearm under a Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

If you use a trigger or cable lock on a gun in a vehicle, the question then becomes whether 131L or 131C is governing. Was the gun being stored or transported? The police may assert that you were transporting the gun while locked up with a trigger lock, while you assert that you locked it up after you stopped. Now it is your word versus the police. Guess who wins that argument?

In contrast, if you put it in a locked container, then you meet both 131L and 131C, and you can hopefully avoid that entire legal urinary Olympics.

 

[PeterGV]

OK, so to further beat this to death... the answer is, to leave your pistol in your car (that is, to "store it") it needs to be unloaded and stored in a locked container (or trigger locked or...).

So, and I know we've been here before but I don't remember the answer: What's does case law consider "unloaded"?? Mag out of the pistol and right next to it, yes?? That's what I've been doing for years, but...

 

[MisterHappy]

1911:

If you look at the entirety of my post (5), I say lock it up in a box, to be sure.

PeterGV:

Since as M1911 points out, the possibility of the storage/transport foncusion indicates that in a box is best. Unloaded is defined as having no ammo in the chamber(s), and no loaded magazine contained within the firearm. Full mag next to it, is fine.

 

[BostonFJ40]

Note - with respect to transport, there are no restrictions on unloaded handguns or other firearms other than large capacity rifles or shotguns) Many people forget about the bolded and underlined items above.

So unloaded handguns do not need to be in a locked container for transport?


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[Suppressor]

The Commonwealth of Massachusetts is so f'ed up.

 

[71montess]

I Ma. can I use one of those car holsters that mount in front of your knees under the steering wheel, and loaded ? Is that close enough for under your direct control?

 

[MisterHappy]

So unloaded handguns do not need to be in a locked container for transport?


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They must be unloaded and secured, unless under your direct control. See my post #5

- - - Updated - - -

I Ma. can I use one of those car holsters that mount in front of your knees under the steering wheel, and loaded ? Is that close enough for under your direct control?

It would most likely meet the definition of direct control, but you need to take it from the holster, and put in on your person, or secure it for storage per MGLs every time you get out of the car.

 

[BostonFJ40]

They must be unloaded and secured, unless under your direct control.

Secured by a cable lock just through the firearm or locked container?




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