-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/MFS May Giveaway ***Canik METE SFX***
Steel cased ammo use at the range
- Thread starter CATI
- Start date
It's my understanding that soviet pattern rifles were designed to shoot steel case. All of the commie surp 54r I've ever bought was steel case.....or what is called "bimetal" which is steel with some type of "copper wash" coating. Most commercial 54r is pure steel case.....some have a lacquer coating.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 67409
In what context? Where did you copy-paste that from?
Certain cartridges and guns work best with steel cases, like 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, 7.92x57, 5.45x39, and 9x18. In other guns, steel can cause issues.
Certain cartridges and guns work best with steel cases, like 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, 7.92x57, 5.45x39, and 9x18. In other guns, steel can cause issues.
I'm with you. I have heard of some commercial rental ranges that don't let patrons pick up brass......they keep it all.....so have restrictions on aluminum and steel to reduce sorting. Maybe that's what he's asking about.
That is from a local range. It says no steel case unless it is in that caliber. Steel case is not allowed at the range in other calibers for some reason. If it is bad for the range why is it allowed for that round.
Some outdoor private clubs don’t appreciate steel cases either. I was told It chews up the steel (cuz bi-metal) and has a higher chance of ricochet. My club has magnets here and there to check for bi-metal bullets. Not sure if true or not because I see steel cases every time I’m there.
My range is home to a group if very athletic individuals who are prone to throw spent cases at the berm. It’s troubling to see in person.
Obviously, it’s the bi-metal bullets that are very, if not overwhelmingly common with steel cased ammo that they’re worried about. Not the cases themselves.
Last edited:
Get it. However, not all steel case is automatically steel core projo. Tula and red army brands of commie cal are steel case but normal copper jacketed lead. Surplus 54r is mostly "mild steel core" and can cause issues though.
The circumstances in this post ALLOW steel 54r and x39 so I'd say it's cuz it's less sorting of range scrap.
D
Deleted member 67409
Right, rental/commercial indoor ranges usually sell the cases they pick up from the floors. In some guns, usually in the cartridges mentioned, there's no real reason to use brass cases. In others, like 5.56x45 or 7.62x51, brass is the norm.
The issue of brass versus steel in ARs is often debated, so I'll just say Google it.
There's only one gun I know of where one absolutely should not shoot steel, and that's FALs, but the real reason appears to be that Tulammo is very inconsistent. Most steel ammo is inconsistent, so many FAL shooters including myself simply don't shoot steel in our FALs.
During WW1, Imperial Germany experienced chronic brass shortages, so they developed steel 7.92x57 cases. The Soviets had similar problems in WW2. Brass is a strategic alloy, and in countries like Imperial Germany or the USSR, steel was already a much more in-supply, easier to make commodity. That's why steel cases are a thing.
The only steel case ammo I use is 54r and x39 in commie surplus rifles. Everything else I own gets brass.....cuz I reload it. I'd never go to a range where the rules are that you can't pick up your brass. It's MINE I paid for it.
D
Deleted member 67409
That's why these indoor ranges have these rules - they sell the brass cases to be commercial reloads or melted down or whatever.
The indoor ranges I've been to usually politely ask if I want to keep the brass and or have a rule that anything that goes beyond the firing line is theirs. Which I'm cool with because of safety issues - there's always that one person who'll try to scrounge brass on a hot range.
BS. all that is one total BS and the only reason is a desire of a club to sell off the brass without any steel casings mixed in.
shooting steel at winter at an open range is great, btw - you pick it up from snow/ice with a magnet, a melted in brass is much more PITA. MFS does not object steel.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2014
- Messages
- 24,184
- Likes
- 30,391
I don't think they work best I just think it's common.
Mfs hangs shooting mats not a steel bullet trap though.
The reason they allegedly ban it inside is the sparks from the bi metal on steel bullet traps can cause an explosion with unburnt powder.
D
Deleted member 67409
Again, depends on the context. I have a 7.62x39 bolt gun that has a reputation for breaking extractors with steel cases. On the flip side, I prefer steel cases with AKs because AKs usually slightly dent brass cases.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2014
- Messages
- 24,184
- Likes
- 30,391
And aks have stronger hammer springs that can rupture brass cases.
Usually I don't run brass 7.62 because the price is crazy. But I see your point
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2014
- Messages
- 24,184
- Likes
- 30,391
Stronger hammer springs than an AR.
That's why one of the big upgrades for a 7.62 ar is a hammer spring to fire the harder steel primer.
I could be wrong about rupturing cases. I feel like that's an interwebs legend at least. But what do I know. I'm just sitting on my couch working an IT job.
D
Deleted member 67409
I believe Lapua 7.62x39 is brass cased and Finland is one of the few countries still using 7.62x39 as a main infantry cartridge.
That being said, most people aren't going to buy brass 7.62x39 for SKSs or AKs, and at 25 yards max at an indoor range, shitty 5+ MOA steel ammo (not all steel is bad, I'm talking the extreme junk) is perfectly fine.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2014
- Messages
- 24,184
- Likes
- 30,391
It did to who I responded to...
And just what "design" features were incorporated into Soviet pattern rifles that would accommodate steel cases any better than brass cases of the same dimensions?
The use of steel in cartridge cases is a matter of economics and availability. The U.S. even used steel cases during WWII when brass was running in short supply and what was available was diverted to artillery fuses instead of small arms.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2014
- Messages
- 24,184
- Likes
- 30,391
I had one,
I like the psa ks47's and cmmg mutants but those ar mags are ugly as hell. Couldn't do it
This is where I got it from.....this copy paste is from pew pew tactical article on steel vs brass. I've read this case elsewhere too
Now take for example, surplus AKs running around. These rifles can, if not properly tuned, rip the heads clean off of softer brass cases. This is because, in general, the tolerances are not as tight on these guns and they extract with much more force than most brass-cased ammo is designed to tolerate.
So my conclusion, from reading these is that they were designed to extract hard.....cuz steel. So.....there's that.
AHM
NES Member
How about the hunting ammo that literally cooks the animal when you shoot it?
Do those ranges allow that?
