Squib at the range today

[Toast]

Met a friend for breakfast today, followed by a run over to the range. We both brought a .22 revolver and a 9mm pistol.

Halfway through his second magazine, he had a failure to eject. He cleared the case, and the next round failed to feed (not fully into battery). He cleared that, and immediately experienced another no-go on battery. Followed by another after that. At that point, he stopped trying to get another round in.

Further examination showed that the fail to extract was from a full-on no-powder squib that left the bullet from the round about 1/4" into the lands, far enough forward to firmly lodge it, but far enough back to prevent another round from fully chambering behind it (fortunate, that). Easily tapped out, and good luck that it wasn't far enough down the barrel that he could have chambered and fired another round into the stuck one.

Remington UMC 9mm factory loads, FWIW.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Strange that he didn't notice a lack of sound and recoil. Jack.

 

[Toast]

Strange that he didn't notice a lack of sound and recoil. Jack.

Well, he certainly noticed the lack of sound and bang. That's why he thought he had a fail to extract.

It's one thing in a revolver (tough to miss the hammer falling without a bang and not realizing something didn't fire), but in a pistol, I'm not sure you always would think "squib". If you don't actively notice the trigger click before the lack of a bang, how would you tell it from a fail to extract of the prior round?

 

[Lip]

Had one on the very first round of the last car shoot. .223 tula.

 

[Caveman]

Glad he wasn't able to get another round chambered. Thank you for sharing. Is it bad that my first thought was that I was jealous that I wasn't at the range today too?

 

[arcticzr600]

Strange that he didn't notice a lack of sound and recoil. Jack.

This. Had one with my glock and it was like a cap gun, casing didn't extract

 

[bill o]

Your friend would benefit from the NRA basic safety course, which covers squibs exhaustively.

 

[whacko]

Well, he certainly noticed the lack of sound and bang. That's why he thought he had a fail to extract.

It's one thing in a revolver (tough to miss the hammer falling without a bang and not realizing something didn't fire), but in a pistol, I'm not sure you always would think "squib". If you don't actively notice the trigger click before the lack of a bang, how would you tell it from a fail to extract of the prior round?

Read your statement again in bold out load to yourself......if you don't understand what's wrong.....you....and your buddy....should stop using fire arms until you do.

I'll give you a hint....aw hell.....ill just let you know where your off......

lack of bang....or a bang that is not as loud as it should be......has nothing to do with exctraction.......a semi auto handgun is completely capable of extracting feeding and chambering the next round with a sqib in the bore. Usually there is a failure to extract or eject.....but the gun is capable of extracting feeding and chambering the next round.

Another question I have for you....your op said failure to eject and your second post (above) says failure to extract. Those are two different malfunctions. If the spent case is still in the chamber that's fail to extract...if the spent case is in the receiver area it's a fail to eject.


Semi autos have these functions and failure explainations in parentheses.

Feeding (new round never comes out of the magazine)

Chambering (new round doesn't go all the way into the chamber)

Locking (gun doesn't go fully into battery)

Firing (click....self explainatory)

Extracting (spent case still in chamber)

Ejecting (spent case stuck in receiver area)


Lack or low level "bang" equals stop.......clear the gun......check the bore for a squib.....every f***ing time. If that squib had been a c*** hair more into the bore your buddy would be at the ER right now.....and minus one functioning handgun.


In all seriousness.....you need to understand what happened today and follow this advice......lack of bang or lighter sounding bang......don't even attemp to fire the gun even if it cycles properly......check the damn bore first.

 

[meh]

I've always wondered about the side-effects of training instinctive malfunction clearance. People train with simulated duds, but who trains with simulated squibs? If you want to handle the squibs correctly, but you almost never see one, it's going to take some time for the situation to wend its way through your brain. You'll probably tap and rack but hopefully decide in time not to bang.

 

[frenchman]

Just another thing Remington didn't get right. I learned to stay away from pretty much anything Remington at this point. I'd rather shoot celery&ballot, or whatever that French shyte is called.

 

[commodon]

Lack or low level "bang" equals stop.......clear the gun......check the bore for a squib.....every f***ing time. If that squib had been a c*** hair more into the bore your buddy would be at the ER right now.....and minus one functioning handgun.

Fully on target (pun intended), but let's not forget the extremely important and necessary step after the "lack or low level bang" and before "clear the gun", keep the weapon pointed safely downrange and count to thirty seconds...

 

[Al-Jim19]

I've always wondered about the side-effects of training instinctive malfunction clearance. People train with simulated duds, but who trains with simulated squibs? If you want to handle the squibs correctly, but you almost never see one, it's going to take some time for the situation to wend its way through your brain. You'll probably tap and rack but hopefully decide in time not to bang.

If I’m training for the “oh shit” moment, I’ll take a risk on squibs.

That having been said squibs scare the hell out of me. I’m pretty careful but haven’t had one.

 

[whacko]

Fully on target (pun intended), but let's not forget the extremely important and necessary step after the "lack or low level bang" and before "clear the gun", keep the weapon pointed safely downrange and count to thirty seconds...

Yup.....forgot about that one....hangfire.

 

[AHM]

Fully on target (pun intended), but let's not forget the extremely important and necessary step after the "lack or low level bang" and before "clear the gun", keep the weapon pointed safely downrange and count to thirty seconds...

Strong agreement about "lack of bang".

What does keeping the muzzle downrange for 30 seconds guard against after there is a "low level bang"?

 

[Frizzle Fry]

Devils advocate here but if you've got your ears on, and you're at a bench with a half dozen other shooters, I could see missing a low-level bang.

 

[Roof gunner]

Devils advocate here but if you've got your ears on, and you're at a bench with a half dozen other shooters, I could see missing a low-level bang.

Yes sir

 

[DPR]

Devils advocate here but if you've got your ears on, and you're at a bench with a half dozen other shooters, I could see missing a low-level bang.

Maybe but you won't miss the low-level recoil
.

 

[eisenhow]

Lack or low level "bang" equals stop.......clear the gun......check the bore for a squib.....every f***ing time. If that squib had been a c*** hair more into the bore your buddy would be at the ER right now.....and minus one functioning handgun.


In all seriousness.....you need to understand what happened today and follow this advice......lack of bang or lighter sounding bang......don't even attemp to fire the gun even if it cycles properly......check the damn bore first.

Really? Lack of (not low level) bang equals tap and rack in my world.

After reloading for over 8 years I finally had my first squib at a match last year. Both myself and the RO didn't hear the primer go off, we both thought it was a failure to fire. I tapped and racked, no luck (gun wouldn't go into battery). I stripped the mag put a fresh mag in, no luck. It was only after that that the RO said "I think you have a squib".

 

[Fixxah]

Were you shooting fully semi auto? Racked it until the clip was empty? Any pics?

 

[whacko]

Really? Lack of (not low level) bang equals tap and rack in my world.

After reloading for over 8 years I finally had my first squib at a match last year. Both myself and the RO didn't hear the primer go off, we both thought it was a failure to fire. I tapped and racked, no luck (gun wouldn't go into battery). I stripped the mag put a fresh mag in, no luck. It was only after that that the RO said "I think you have a squib".

In your world you just admitted you had what you perceived to be a lack of bang that turned out that the primer detonated. Don't look now but your proving my point. Additionally "clearing and checking for a squib" after a no bang doesn't mean taking the gun apart and looking in the barrel......guess what Sherlock.....if you "rack"....and step back from your "operator" world for half a second....and check the carteridge that comes out......if there is a bullet in the case it's not in the bore so rock on.....if it's an empty case.......take it down and check the bore. It's not rocket science.

I RO practice plates at my club......if I hear a click its pause with muzzle downrange for a few seconds......rack and check the case.....you'll know from the spent case what the next step is like I said above. I've had 3 shooters with squibs so far this summer alone. It does happen often .

 

[eisenhow]

Were you shooting fully semi auto? Racked it until the clip was empty? Any pics?

My only point is that a primer only squib doesn't feel any different than a failure to fire when you're shooting a stage. With ear protection on and a 40+ oz steel gun you don't feel/hear the primer. A light power charge you'll notice the difference in noise and recoil pulse.

 

[Bonesinium]

Christ. Mister perfect over here. Like it’s so unreasonable for someone who thinks it just goes click, and when you rack the slide a spent round comes out, to think the prior shot was a failure to extract.

How could anyone be so stupid.

 

[FiremanBob]

Friends don't let friends shoot Remington UMC, or Tula. Or Remington .22LR of any flavor. A friend's Smith 41 was destroyed by a Remington squib fired by a student who didn't recognize it. I won't allow Remington ammo in my Appleseed loaners.

 

[TLB]

Strong agreement about "lack of bang".

What does keeping the muzzle downrange for 30 seconds guard against after there is a "low level bang"?

Hang fire going off in unsafe direction.

Cue the video of the guy blowing his hat off looking down the barrel of his long gun.

 

[whacko]

Christ. Mister perfect over here. Like it’s so unreasonable for someone who thinks it just goes click, and when you rack the slide a spent round comes out, to think the prior shot was a failure to extract.

How could anyone be so stupid.

If it goes click......and then rack it and a spent case comes out.....check the bore. That's reasonable!

 

[eisenhow]

In your world you just admitted you had what you perceived to be a lack of bang that turned out that the primer detonated. Don't look now but your proving my point. Additionally "clearing and checking for a squib" after a no bang doesn't mean taking the gun apart and looking in the barrel......guess what Sherlock.....if you "rack"....and step back from your "operator" world for half a second....and check the carteridge that comes out......if there is a bullet in the case it's not in the bore so rock on.....if it's an empty case.......take it down and check the bore. It's not rocket science.

I RO practice plates at my club......if I hear a click its pause with muzzle downrange for a few seconds......rack and check the case.....you'll know from the spent case what the next step is like I said above. I've had 3 shooters with squibs so far this summer alone. It does happen often .

Operator? LOL. I'm a competitor albeit an old, overweight, crappy one. I guarantee you anyone above the beginner level who gets a click not a bang isn't going to "pause with muzzle downrange for a few seconds". They'll likely skip the tap, go straight to the rack, and try again.

 

[whacko]

Operator? LOL. I'm a competitor albeit an old, overweight, crappy one. I guarantee you anyone above the beginner level who gets a click not a bang isn't going to "pause with muzzle downrange for a few seconds". They'll likely skip the tap, go straight to the rack, and try again.

And according to your scenario of your first squib.....if the projo had gone up the barrel a little more your gun would have gone into battery........ and......click kaboom! Sweet!

Again.....as an ro I've had three shooters with squibs this summer.....it's more common that many think. I'll err on the side of caution.

 

[whacko]

Strong agreement about "lack of bang".

What does keeping the muzzle downrange for 30 seconds guard against after there is a "low level bang"?

No bang keep it down range for a few seconds then rack it and look at the case.....if you see a bullet in the case rock on.....if it's and empty case clear the gun and check the bore. It's not rocket surgery.

Low level bang no need to hold it down range first but definitely check the bore.

 

[AHM]

What does keeping the muzzle downrange for 30 seconds guard against after there is a "low level bang"?

Hang fire going off in unsafe direction.

Cue the video of the guy blowing his hat off looking down the barrel of his long gun.

But if it went pop (i.e., "low level bang"),
what could be hanging fire?

If the squib cycled the action,
aren't the odds astronomical against a squib being followed immediately by
the next round being a hang fire?

If the squib didn't cycle the action,
there may well be an inert bullet wedged down the barrel,
but isn't there nothing but brass and soot left in the chamber?

 

[AHM]

No bang keep it down range for a few seconds then rack it and look at the case.....if you see a bullet in the case rock on.....if it's and empty case clear the gun and check the bore. It's not rocket surgery.

Low level bang no need to hold it down range first but definitely check the bore.

Yep, I'm down with both of those contingencies.
(Thanks much).