Spanish Commercial

"Think about countries around the world where multiple languages are/have been the norm. Multi languages mean multi cultures, multi customs, multi religion, multi areas where these different cultures congregate and live...the word conclave comes to mind."

Come on Pilgrim, that has been the case since before 1776. Not everybody in the 13 Colonies spoke English, not all them were Christian. We survived as a country. As far as the Multi Area part, until very recently that held true with Boston, North End (Italian) Cambridge (Liberial), Brookline (Jewish) South Boston/Dorchester (Irish) Roxbury (First Jewish then Black). The US didn't implode neither did Boston.

There have always been multiple languages to a certain minimalist degree. In fact many times, one was looked down upon even by one's family if the English was not used properly or frequently enough. I can almost hear, "You are in American now son, speak English and be proud!". The key here is that everyone's unltimate goal was to learn English as soon as possible. Not like today where we expect those who speak English to learn the immigrant's language and use signage and schools and other means to make it so immigrants don't have nearly so much incentive to learn English.

"Most of these types of countries eventually end up in (at best) political conflict and (at worst) physical conflict. Even the partial breakup of Canada has been threatened with Quebec seceding and forming it's own country."

This hasn't happen in the history of this country and I doubt it will ever happen.

You have your head in the sand. It's already happening in many of the major inner city environments.


"One of the biggest reasons that the US has prospered as it has, is that people CAME (mostly past tense now) here to be Americans, speak the language and become part of the melting pot which makes ONE country. In a melting pot, everyone blends in together for the common good."

You are talking as if that transition from immigrant to citizen happened in an instance and not over time. It is like talking about the good old times. Just like you are complaining now, we had people complaining then. I am sure someone back during the huge Irish immigration into the US felt the same way but after TIME those Irish became incorporated into the Melting pot, to the point that few Whites can claim to be "pure" Irish or "pure" Italian or etc...


The big difference is that the Irish spoke English ( a form anyway), and could function in our country. We didn't need to adjust to them.

"By promoting multiple languages, pandering to different ethnic groups by making signs and advertisements in multiple languages, we are promoting divisiveness and will eventually pay a big price. With multi languages, there is no 'melting pot', only a pot full of rocks that are constantly bumping into each others' differences."

It is very hard for a person coming to this land to learn English overnight, it takes time. My Dad and Mom came to the US in 1968, were they not suppose to work because they only spoke Spanish?

Yes it does take a while and it will take even longer if we keep bending over and making our citizens adapt to them. Your parents came knowing that they would have to learn the language, knowing it would be tough, but they wanted it anyway...and I bet they were proud that they did accomplish this. Now we're saying not to worry, you don;t need to become one of us, we'll become more like you.

"Ironically, the language issue is probably the easiest 'problem' of immigration to solve."

Actually it is the easiest to solve over time. What you seem to be glancing over is unless you immigrant from a English speaking country, language and learning the language can only be solved with time.

Yes, and a lot longer time is what you and others are advocating by placating the immigrants.



With no common language, there will be no US.

I agree with your last statement, no common language there is no US.


Then why are you advocating that we splinter ourselves language wise?



BTW, I lived in Germany for almost 3.5 years and I never went around expecting them to cater to me and my English. I learned as much German as I could, as quickly as I could and spoke it as often as I could. I considered it my duty and it showed the German people that I had respect for them and their customs.



I resent the Hell out of our school systems making us accomodate the immigrant before we take care of our own traditions and ideals.
 
reinbeau said:
If you've been to Biddeford and not seen french signs you haven't looked very hard. We've been all over the state, at all times of the year, and there are usually many, many Quebec license plates around. You're right, they're fine, polite tourists. It's in Canada they're arrogant about their language.
Click to expand...
Well, of course, there is a difference between seeing french-signed businesses as opposed to Quebecoise license plates. Which one are you referring to?

I don't necessarily mean tourists, I lived abroad (in Francophone West Africa) with a plethora of French Canadians, whom obviously spoke the native language whereas I did not. They were all more than polite. In Quebec I would expect a certain amount of nationalistic pride, 9 out of 10 Quebecoise that I know would prefer to separate from Canada as they don't really feel tied identity-wise. So, I'm sure that comes off as rudeness or arrogance sometimes.

Recent immigrants need to learn English. It costs every citizen of this country way too much money to educate, translate, publish, etc. everything in multiple languages.
Click to expand...
Yes. There should be an English test to go along with the civics test. If you don't pass it, you don't get in.
 
FeeBear said:
SR, can I ask do you get as mad when you drive through Maine and see French everywhere or is it just Spanish? Just curious.
Click to expand...

Mad? I'm not mad. I know it's hard to gauge moods through typing so I can understand if you're misreading my emotions. As I said, it's a matter of respect to learn the language of the nation you are living in.

I encourage any and every nationality to legally enter the US and apply for citizenship. Of course, as a citizen of the US you should pay taxes, vote and speak English.

I strongly disagree with illegal immigration. Mexican, Irish, Canadian, Ugandan, whatever. I have no solution for the issue of immigration because I certainly don't want a job that pays $3 an hour.

Is English really that hard?
 

There have always been multiple languages to a certain minimalist degree. In fact many times, one was looked down upon even by one's family if the English was not used properly or frequently enough. I can almost hear, "You are in American now son, speak English and be proud!". The key here is that everyone's unltimate goal was to learn English as soon as possible. Not like today where we expect those who speak English to learn the immigrant's language and use signage and schools and other means to make it so immigrants don't have nearly so much incentive to learn English.

You haven't been to Chinatown in a while have you. [smile] Now, being from an immigrant family, immigrants have all the incentives in the world to learn the language. You realize unless you want to work as a cleaner, mop hand all your life (Which is what my dad did and he put one kid throught MIT and one through BU) you want to progress. Last time I checked CEO position aren't available in the US for non-english speakers. So at least in that part I disagree.

"Most of these types of countries eventually end up in (at best) political conflict and (at worst) physical conflict. Even the partial breakup of Canada has been threatened with Quebec seceding and forming it's own country."

This hasn't happen in the history of this country and I doubt it will ever happen.

You have your head in the sand. It's already happening in many of the major inner city environments.

News flash, we have always had Ghettos, we will always have Ghettos. We will always have poor people. Unless I am mistaken they haven't voted to secedes. Or are you afraid that blacks and minorities are trying to make their own country?

"One of the biggest reasons that the US has prospered as it has, is that people CAME (mostly past tense now) here to be Americans, speak the language and become part of the melting pot which makes ONE country. In a melting pot, everyone blends in together for the common good."

You are talking as if that transition from immigrant to citizen happened in an instance and not over time. It is like talking about the good old times. Just like you are complaining now, we had people complaining then. I am sure someone back during the huge Irish immigration into the US felt the same way but after TIME those Irish became incorporated into the Melting pot, to the point that few Whites can claim to be "pure" Irish or "pure" Italian or etc...


The big difference is that the Irish spoke English ( a form anyway), and could function in our country. We didn't need to adjust to them.

Alright you took my more literal than I thought you might. I always thought the Irish spoke Gaelic, Italians and Germany didn't speak English. In their little community they had signs for their people. I know for a fact that is true because I still see signs in Southie and part of Dorchester from that time (in Gaelic) and I am sure if I walk the North End I will find signs in Italian as well signs in Korean. I know of alot of Korean immigrants that didn't know the language on arrival.

"By promoting multiple languages, pandering to different ethnic groups by making signs and advertisements in multiple languages, we are promoting divisiveness and will eventually pay a big price. With multi languages, there is no 'melting pot', only a pot full of rocks that are constantly bumping into each others' differences."

It is very hard for a person coming to this land to learn English overnight, it takes time. My Dad and Mom came to the US in 1968, were they not suppose to work because they only spoke Spanish?

Yes it does take a while and it will take even longer if we keep bending over and making our citizens adapt to them. Your parents came knowing that they would have to learn the language, knowing it would be tough, but they wanted it anyway...and I bet they were proud that they did accomplish this. Now we're saying not to worry, you don;t need to become one of us, we'll become more like you.

So what you are saying is that we can't learn from our past? So the right way of educating immigrants is to simply immerse them in English classes and when they fail so what? Sink or swim, your choice.... we don't do that with dyslexic kids, we don't do that Autism. We have alot of special need kids through no fault of their own are disadvantage.

"Ironically, the language issue is probably the easiest 'problem' of immigration to solve."

Actually it is the easiest to solve over time. What you seem to be glancing over is unless you immigrant from a English speaking country, language and learning the language can only be solved with time.

Yes, and a lot longer time is what you and others are advocating by placating the immigrants.


Sink or Swim mentality, I got it.

With no common language, there will be no US.

I agree with your last statement, no common language there is no US.


Then why are you advocating that we splinter ourselves language wise?

Because we aren't. Everything is still in English. You say I have my head in the sand, my friend you have been on high alert too long then. You make sound like we are heading for a Civil War.

BTW, I lived in Germany for almost 3.5 years and I never went around expecting them to cater to me and my English. I learned as much German as I could, as quickly as I could and spoke it as often as I could. I considered it my duty and it showed the German people that I had respect for them and their customs.

I have the great respect for a person that learns a language of the place they are stationed at knowing they are there for a short time. I have the upmost respect for you also for you also, you served our country and that is to be respected and appreciated.
On a side note. I picked up my new BMW in Germany Last year and believe me they cater to Non-German speaking people if you have money to spend.
 
Last edited:
Mad? I'm not mad. I know it's hard to gauge moods through typing so I can understand if you're misreading my emotions. As I said, it's a matter of respect to learn the language of the nation you are living in.

I am glad, I hate to think I have made a person to dislike before I have ever gotten a chance to meet them. [smile]

I encourage any and every nationality to legally enter the US and apply for citizenship. Of course, as a citizen of the US you should pay taxes, vote and speak English.

I agree with your final outcome SR. Even though you might not be a citizen you should still pay taxes. I also agree with the voting (even though I think half the citizen in this country don't vote) and speak English.
I believe the only thing we disagree is how to achieve this. We have the old way (English immersion) and the new way English-Spoon feed. I am a product of the English immersion myself (Since I learn English before my parents) and I can tell you it is hard. One of the best teachers a child has is his parents, I for one could ask my parents to help because they didn't understand the language at the time and I didn't have the mastery of the language to translate for them. It was also hard because as a child you want to play with other kids but again language was an issue. Do I think if back in the 70's we had a classroom where I could have learn English at a slower pace while continuing to learn other subjects, it would have made it easier for me absolutely. Do I think kids in 21 Century should go through what I had to if they are first generation Americans? I'd hope they wouldn't. Does my son have to worry about that? No, because he is 2nd Generation and the sacfrices made by my dad and mom and me was so that he is just an ordinary American kid.

I strongly disagree with illegal immigration. Mexican, Irish, Canadian, Ugandan, whatever. I have no solution for the issue of immigration because I certainly don't want a job that pays $3 an hour.
One crisis at a time SR [smile] I agree that illegal immigration is wrong. Also the reason most immigrants want to lean English and be legal is because you can't live on bad wages...

Is English really that hard?
Honestly yes when you have no background in a language and nothing to reference it too, English is a pain. My first grade and second grade experiences in Boston in the 70's still make get emotional. It wasn't until the third grade that I finally caught up and understood what was going around me (I also have to thank Electric Company and Sesame Street).

Fee
 
number9 said:
Well, of course, there is a difference between seeing french-signed businesses as opposed to Quebecoise license plates. Which one are you referring to?
Click to expand...
As I said in my original post, it was french canadians in Canada.

You said:
I have no problem seeing french in Maine, though to tell you the truth I haven't seen that much of it at all. Admittedly, I've never been much more north than Millinocket, but even in Biddeford I didn't see any french signs.
Click to expand...
to which I replied that you hadn't looked very hard as there are plenty of french signs in Biddeford, as well as northward. Then I went on to say there were plenty of french tourists up there, also.

I said:
I do! As an American of French ancestry, who learned french in high school (can't remember much) I don't appreciate seeing anything in this country in french. Having been treated like a third class citizen in Canada by french speakers who thought I should know french because of my surname.
Click to expand...
, so obviously I wasn't just talking about french speaking tourists, but being treated badly by french speaking canadians in Canada.
 
FeeBear, we'll just have to agree to disagree...even if you are wrong. Trying to convince a 'progressive' about anything is tough. [smile]

Some people seem to think that things are never good enough the way they are and that things always need to be changed, because change is good. Progress does not always make things better. There is an old saying, 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

The motto of the Progressives is "Fix it until it doesn't work."[thinking]

I do think, that more people on this board and in our country will agree with me, than you.

Oh, and I won't promise not to say "I told you so" when TSHTF...[smile] ...and it will if we keep on our present course of mollifying immigrants.

So keep on posting, I won't get mad at you, if you won't get mad at me. As long as we both support the 2A, we're brothers.[wink]
 
reinbeau said:
As I said in my original post, it was french canadians in Canada.

You said: to which I replied that you hadn't looked very hard as there are plenty of french signs in Biddeford, as well as northward. Then I went on to say there were plenty of french tourists up there, also.

I said: , so obviously I wasn't just talking about french speaking tourists, but being treated badly by french speaking canadians in Canada.
Click to expand...

I agree with Ann on this. I do alot of work in Maine and all the ATM I have seen are in English and French (Augusta/Waterville Area). Nevermind the signage is in both languages.

Fee
 
number9 said:
Yes. There should be an English test to go along with the civics test. If you don't pass it, you don't get in.
Click to expand...

That is how it is for legal immigrants apply for naturalization (i.e. becoming a citizen):

http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/index.htm

da feds said:
The general requirements for administrative naturalization include:

* a period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States;
* residence in a particular USCIS District prior to filing;
* an ability to read, write, and speak English;
* a knowledge and understanding of U.S. history and government;
* good moral character;
* attachment to the principles of the U.S. Constitution; and,
* favorable disposition toward the United States.

(also)

Language

Applicants for naturalization must be able to read, write, speak, and understand words in ordinary usage in the English language. Applicants exempt from this requirement are those who on the date of filing:

* have been residing in the United States subsequent to a lawful admission for permanent residence for periods totaling 15 years or more and are over 55 years of age;
* have been residing in the United States subsequent to a lawful admission for permanent residence for periods totaling 20 years or more and are over 50 years of age; or
* have a medically determinable physical or mental impairment, where the impairment affects the applicant’s ability to learn English.
Click to expand...
 
Unfortunately the above language requirement seems to be selectively enforced, although in my case when I become a citizen I expect it will be more based on can I speak American not English:

Sidewalk not pavement
French fries not chips
Chips not crisps
Underwear not knickers
Cigarette not fag
Hooker not tart
Truck not lorry
Cookie not biscuit

etc
 
FeeBear, we'll just have to agree to disagree...even if you are wrong. Trying to convince a 'progressive' about anything is tough. [smile]

I can respect that[smile] If I am wrong it won't be the first time. [smile]

Some people seem to think that things are never good enough the way they are and that things always need to be changed, because change is good. Progress does not always make things better. There is an old saying, 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

I can respect that also. Fortunately or Unfortunately change is part of life. [wink]

The motto of the Progressives is "Fix it until it doesn't work."[thinking]
I didn't know that but I learned something new. [grin]

I do think, that more people on this board and in our country will agree with me, than you.
Somehow I think you are right. [smile]

Oh, and I won't promise not to say "I told you so" when TSHTF...[smile] ...and it will if we keep on our present course of mollifying immigrants.

I can accept that, as long as if I right and this is all a phase we can laugh about it in the afterlife over a beer. [laugh]

So keep on posting, I won't get mad at you, if you won't get mad at me. As long as we both support the 2A, we're brothers.

I wouldn't have it any other way my friend.[wink]
 
MarkM said:
Unfortunately the above language requirement seems to be selectively enforced, although in my case when I become a citizen I expect it will be more based on can I speak American not English:

Sidewalk not pavement
French fries not chips
Chips not crisps
Underwear not knickers
Cigarette not fag
Hooker not tart
Truck not lorry
Cookie not biscuit

etc
Click to expand...

I think we have an Englishman among us.[grin]
 
FeeBear said:
I think we have an Englishman among us.[grin]
Click to expand...

Legally I am still an Englishman [wink] but I have been in the US 7+ years now and am in the process of becoming a Citizen (and for those that don't like legal immigrants I will point out that in the past 7 years I have traveled around more of the US, paid more in taxes, and learned more about US history and the constitution than many if not all of you [smile] )
 
MarkM said:
Legally I am still an Englishman [wink] but I have been in the US 7+ years now and am in the process of becoming a Citizen (and for those that don't like legal immigrants I will point out that in the past 7 years I have traveled around more of the US, paid more in taxes, and learned more about US history and the constitution than many if not all of you [smile] )
Click to expand...


And I thank you for caring enough to do that Mark. [smile] Don't ever loose the accent tho. [wink]

BTW, SR - I've seen that commercial. I wanted to barf.
 

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