Snub nosed revolver basics

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andy t

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I finally got my S&W 442 out to the range today for the first time. This is my first revolver. It will be used for carry. I was firing at 6" paper plates from 10 yards.
Most of my shots were to the bottom right of the target. This never happens to me with a pistol. With pistols I usually either hit high or low left. Could this have been due to the way I was pulling back the trigger? When I tried self defense ammo, I was disappointed to find my shots really scattered, some going off the plate.
I would appreciate any tips on more effective employment of the snubby.

Thanks!
 
Are you shooting double action or single action?

Double action = pulling the trigger with the hammer in the uncocked position.

Single action = cocking the hammer with your thumb, then pulling the trigger.

The resistance of the various springs involved in firing double action .vs single action can be a whole different experience.
 
Too much finger in the trigger and possibly a poor grip. If you want to spend a little time on the range and are willing to drive, send me an e mail. I have shot revolvers since the 70's and taught revolver for 7 years as LEO and will gladly spend a little time with you. Remember, revolvers are addictive.[grin]

PS: Lugnut, the 442 is hammerless [wink]
 
Why are you being so hard on your self? I think you did pretty good for the first time. A 2 inch, 15oz. revolver DAO revolver takes a little getting use too. To say the least.

For your first revolver I think your off to a great start. It's your first time with a 2 inch barrel and a 15oz. revolver firing self defense rounds is a handfull for any one

All you need is a little more practice. Start with a target at 21ft. and work your way out.
 
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andy_t: First thing to do would be to get a trigger-job done. 442 and 642 have very heavy triggers straight from the factory.

After that, it will take a lot of dry fire practice. The long, heavy trigger pull combined with a short sight radius and minimal sights make the 442 and 642 difficult to master.
 
I just picked up a 642... Yikes... what a trigger on that thing.

Does anyone have any advice on how to pull the trigger? Should I use the joint of the finger or further up like I do with my semi's?

I managed to acheive reasonable accuracy by staging the trigger... squeezing it until a bit before it breaks, getting on target, then squeezing it the rest of the way. This, however doesn't seem to me to be the best way to fire it...

Thanks :D
 
Thanks for all the replies!
RGS, may I ask where you are located?
Unfortunately at my club, 10 yards is the current minimum distance as the short range rage is down for maintenance.
Are there any gunsmiths that can do a trigger job in the area? - Particularly in Boston North?
 
I suspect Greg Derr could do it. I bet RGS probably could it as well.

J-frame trigger/spring jobs aren't hard to do if you 1) stay away from the hammer and sear, and 2) use caution with spring reduction and test carefully. Kunhausen's book is very useful.
 
andy t said:
Thanks for all the replies!
RGS, may I ask where you are located?
Unfortunately at my club, 10 yards is the current minimum distance as the short range rage is down for maintenance.
Are there any gunsmiths that can do a trigger job in the area? - Particularly in Boston North?
Click to expand...

I am on Cape cod and have access to a range. I can also do some work to the trigger pull but only after you have mastered the full weight.

As far as the Snub course Cross X recommends, I do not think it is for a new revolver shooter. I have taken the course and can give you more reliable information from my experience for free than you will get from that course. I have over 30 years experience with revolvers and do not train to make money. (Take his knife course it is worth every penny)
Read THIS THREAD and see my responses.

To noelephant, you can come too [wink]

We can set up a day and all you will have to do is bring ammo and pay the $20 to become an NES member. I will donate my time to you both.

Regards,
 
noelephant said:
I just picked up a 642... Yikes... what a trigger on that thing.

Does anyone have any advice on how to pull the trigger? Should I use the joint of the finger or further up like I do with my semi's?

I managed to acheive reasonable accuracy by staging the trigger... squeezing it until a bit before it breaks, getting on target, then squeezing it the rest of the way. This, however doesn't seem to me to be the best way to fire it...

Thanks :D
Click to expand...

A trigger job is an option of course, but I remember reading somewhere, (perhaps here) that it wasn't a panacea. If you want to do your own trigger job, it's easy - round count + dry firing. Mine is absolutely better after 600-rounds and tons of dry-firing. this appears to be the solution for many and I'd recommend that route first before spending dough working on a trigger that may not need it in the first place.

Also realize that if you're used to semi-automatics, the DA trigger pull on the 642 is going to feel like a crusher. Once you get used to it however, it's really smooth as butter....
 
Here is a list of revolver basics covering Snub nose and other DA revolvers.

1. Have a revolver [smile]

2. find a set of stocks that fit your hand and stay with them.

3. practice Double action pull with an unloaded firearm

4. Master the double action pull with an unloaded firearm

5. Practice sight alignment while using the double action pull with an unloaded firearm.

6. Practice the double action pull with a loaded firearm

7. Practice sight alignment while using double action pull with a loaded firearm.

8. practice concealed carry draw with an unloaded firearm

9. Practice concealed carry draw and target acquisition with an unloaded firearm

10. Practice concealed carry draw and target acquisition with a loaded firearm

11. Multi target drills with unloaded firearm

12. Multi target drills with a loaded firearm

13. forget that any revolver can be utilized Single action

See how those basics work out for you. The double action pull of a new revolver is some of the best trigger control training you can get. That is the reason I prefer to not do action work on new revolvers of inexperienced revolver shooters. The full weight will make you a better shooter.
 
I've noticed something very strange about shooting my SW 442.

I shoot lefty, and was always shooting to the left of target.

I noticed that the momentum of the cylinder turning pulled my shots to the left.

I switched my gun to the right hand, which I use equally well, and all my shots were right on target. Holding the gun in the other hand seems to have slowed down or counteracted the inertia of the cylinder spin.

While I haven't ruled out trigger pull as the problem, I can feel the effect of the cylinder, and I'm sure it's part of the problem in such a light gun. I don't have this problem with a SS SW 640, that weighs ten ounces more.

Why? I have no idea. I am going to keep working on it though.
 
Round Gun Shooter said:
Here is a list of revolver basics covering Snub nose and other DA revolvers.

1. Have a revolver [smile]

2. find a set of stocks that fit your hand and stay with them.

3. practice Double action pull with an unloaded firearm

4. Master the double action pull with an unloaded firearm

5. Practice sight alignment while using the double action pull with an unloaded firearm.

6. Practice the double action pull with a loaded firearm

7. Practice sight alignment while using double action pull with a loaded firearm.

8. practice concealed carry draw with an unloaded firearm

9. Practice concealed carry draw and target acquisition with an unloaded firearm

10. Practice concealed carry draw and target acquisition with a loaded firearm

11. Multi target drills with unloaded firearm

12. Multi target drills with a loaded firearm

13. forget that any revolver can be utilized Single action

See how those basics work out for you. The double action pull of a new revolver is some of the best trigger control training you can get. That is the reason I prefer to not do action work on new revolvers of inexperienced revolver shooters. The full weight will make you a better shooter.
Click to expand...

RGS,

How do you do 3&4 without doing #5? I've always been taught that dry fire is about pulling the trigger without disturbing the sight picture and that dryfiring without paying attention to sight picture leads to bad habits.

Thanks,
Matt
 
matt said:
RGS,

How do you do 3&4 without doing #5? I've always been taught that dry fire is about pulling the trigger without disturbing the sight picture and that dryfiring without paying attention to sight picture leads to bad habits.

Thanks,
Matt
Click to expand...

Mastering the double action pull itself needs to be accomplished before you try sight alignment or the frustration level will be high. The purpose in just practicing the pull is to develop the muscles necessary to have a good pull while keeping a good sight alignment.
 
depicts said:
I've noticed something very strange about shooting my SW 442.

I shoot lefty, and was always shooting to the left of target.

I noticed that the momentum of the cylinder turning pulled my shots to the left.

I switched my gun to the right hand, which I use equally well, and all my shots were right on target. Holding the gun in the other hand seems to have slowed down or counteracted the inertia of the cylinder spin.

While I haven't ruled out trigger pull as the problem, I can feel the effect of the cylinder, and I'm sure it's part of the problem in such a light gun. I don't have this problem with a SS SW 640, that weighs ten ounces more.

Why? I have no idea. I am going to keep working on it though.
Click to expand...

Stocks are too small for your hands.

Editing to add, the cylinder rotation should have no impact at all on where the shot hits. Don't over think this, if you have a good set of stocks, a proper grip, and a proper trigger pull, it all comes together.
 
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MagnumMike said:
RGS you need to put on a Round Gun school, I for one would pay for a class that focuses on revolvers only.
Click to expand...

Well, first of all you guys are not going to turn my hobby into a job [grin]

So, I will do it but I will not do it for pay. What I am willing to do is a group get together for NES members. Being I am on Cape Cod, if someone can get use of a range central to all, I will travel to accommodate the group. This can be a basic (I mean very basic) course to gain skills. I am not a public speaker but I can get the point across. So, How about a range bay at Harvard?? Cross X can contact me off the forum and we can discuss it and go from there.

I would limit the number to no more than 10 and Goose is on the list as we had discussed this some time ago. He can add to the class with info he has gotten from others. I have a chance to learn also.

So, the way to start this is become a NES member and we can go from there.

Regards,
 
Round Gun Shooter said:
As far as the Snub course Cross X recommends, I do not think it is for a new revolver shooter.
Click to expand...

I agree with this comment. I have taken Michael de Bethencourt's class out at the S&W Academy and also Bert du Vernay's 2 day snubby class at Sig Arms. Neither one is really designed for a new revolver shooter. I think the assumption at both classes is that you already have some basic snubby shooting skills and a lot of the time is spent on drills to maximize the snubby as a personal defense gun and/or bug.

I am passionate about the snubby, I carry one about 80 - 90% of the time without apology. It works for me on a daily basis. Mostly pocket carry. Since it is my chosen personal defense handgun I train with it regularly. Every trip to the range includes a snubby. My personal opinion is that you really have to work at it to make it work. I can shoot my S&W 1911 PD a lot better a lot easier, but that is not what I carry every day. I have heard that shooting skills erode quickly without practice and I think that snubby skills erode even more quickly. I do not consider myself a very good shooter, but I work at it and I am always open to learn. To that end I would love to jump in on a RGS seminar. I suspect that he has forgotten more then I will likely ever learn. Lets make this thing happen!!
 
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