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Smith & Wesson shooting range closed?

rwl1955 said:
Thanks for the invite. How`s the indoor range?
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It's a nice small club, we are near a school so we decided not to shot outside during the school year (you can shoot after school closes for the day outside) but you can still shoot inside.

It's a nice indoor range, with a good system (lighting, air, target set-up, ext.), it's 8 lanes (if I remember correctly right now).

Here's a few shot's (links) of what the club looks (and looked like).

http://www.northamptonrevolverclub.org/About

http://www.northamptonrevolverclub.org/Events Go down below the event postings.

Plus if you are a member of a surounding club you can join NRC at a discount.

Membership:

Fees:

Membership is open to any person, 18 years of age or older, holding a valid License to Carry Firearms or Firearms Identification Card (FID). Candidates must be nominated by an NRC member in good standing, and accepted by majority vote at a regular Club meeting.

■Regular Membership - $150.00 per year.
■Family Membership - First person in "household" $150.00, subsequent family members $75.00 each. (Household defined as "living in the same house").
■Senior Membership - For those who are 60 years of age or older $75.00.
■Associate Membership - For those members who currently belong to either Holyoke or Easthampton as their "primary" Club, $75.00- no voting privilege.
■Law Enforcement - For those members who are currently employed with a local Law Enforcement Agency, $125.00 - no voting privilege.
■Life Membership - One time fee of $1500.00.
 
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Cabinetman said:
At one time not too long ago S&W used to require a safety "class' before shooting if you didn't already have a permit. I (an NRA pistol and rifle instructor) would bring friends who never shot before there to experience it for the first time. S&W made them sit through a safety film. It sounds like they had suspended that practice for one reason or another.

Rome
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I was just there for the first time maybe a month ago and I had to watch the video.
 
Well, now. This begs the question can CT permit holders join a private club in MA and shoot there without a MA license? Seems to me that nothing has really changed and since this will be a club and not a sanctioned meet, the answer is still 'no'. I wish there was a way we could but FOPA won't cut it here.

Too bad.

Rome
 
Cabinetman said:
Well, now. This begs the question can CT permit holders join a private club in MA and shoot there without a MA license? Seems to me that nothing has really changed and since this will be a club and not a sanctioned meet, the answer is still 'no'. I wish there was a way we could but FOPA won't cut it here.
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No, not unless they are "running" under the MA competition exemption. To just go shooting for the hell of it in MA with handguns, if you don't have a resident/business LTC/FID here you will need a non resident LTC to be covered.

-Mike
 
mark056 said:
Smith and Wesson finally came clean with a more detailed statement as reported by the Springfield Republican. Apparently an accused killer, Manuel Lora used the facility back on May 28, 2011. Apparently two other convicted felons also used the range.

For the complete story please go to: http://www.masslive.com/business-ne...smith_wesson_shooting_sports_center_temp.html
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Channel 3 in Springfield led the 6 p.m. news with this last night, like it wasn't in the newspaper last week. The S&W range has signs on all the doors saying no felons may enter the premises. If they can't do an instant CORI check, how the hell are the guys on the desk supposed to know the renters are convicted felons, much less that they're going to kill someone NEXT YEAR?
 
This problem will be solved when the range opens back up as a privet club with only vetted members. Having a valid LTC should be enought to vet someone. Having a valid Mass. LTC = CORI check.
 
Woodstock said:
Channel 3 in Springfield led the 6 p.m. news with this last night, like it wasn't in the newspaper last week. The S&W range has signs on all the doors saying no felons may enter the premises. If they can't do an instant CORI check, how the hell are the guys on the desk supposed to know the renters are convicted felons, much less that they're going to kill someone NEXT YEAR?
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That`s my question also. How can the range be responsible for supposed felons renting and shooting guns? This smacks of pressure from the Feds/city,etc. If I was S&W I would seriously be looking to relocate from the s@#$hole that Springfield has become.
 
My guess is that S&W is responding to BATFE pressure, among other things. BATFE tends to punish FFL holders who run pay ranges, adding all these recordkeeping requirements that don't exist in the law, etc. They inclination is that they want FFLs to do everything they can to prevent PPs from using their facilities- yet, the feds would NOT allow an FFL to use NICS, as that use is not allowed by law, as far as I know.

I get a feeling that this is also a PR thing for S&W. If it was "joe's gun range" this probably would not be an issue at all, or not as significant.

-Mike
 
“In keeping with our long-standing role as a responsible member of our community, we have always operated our shooting sports center in full compliance with all applicable laws, procedures, and regulations, with the safety of our customers and our community as our paramount objective,” Sharp said.
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So why is it closed? Grow a pair and place the blame where it belongs.
 
mark056 said:
Don,

I appreciate your post and concerns but I fear that you are a victim of your own provincialism. Any public range that I have ever gone to from Arizona to New Hampshire has always had some kind of safety briefing and acknowledgement prior to renting range time. In the case of S&W one actually had to watch a video prior to going on to the range, and acknowledge that the safety rules were understood. Now when did you go to the S&W Shooting Sports Center, and not acknowledge in writing that you were familiar with the range rules?

What concerns me the most is your opening statement: It blows my mind that they would let unlicensed people use the range..." You see my friend Don, this is the first but subtle step in the process of accepting gun licensure as a the norm, rather than the abridgement of a natural right. I totally agree that with rights come responsibilities and one has an obligation to use firearms safely (just as one does not falsely yell "fire" in a crowded theater)...but to see licensure as an accepted norm, is a bit distressing. You do see how we are being conditioned, next thing you know, one is prompted to ask"what is really wrong with reasonable gun control laws? I hope that someday you will have the opportunity to reside in a state where no licenses are required (AK, AZ, VT, for instance). [wink]
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Mark,
Thank you for setting me straight on the topic of licensing. There is a subtle difference when it comes to privately owned ranges. The owner has a right to do things however he wants, including accepting a license in lieu of a safety check-out. But you are 100% correct in reminding me that going counter to this should not be "mind blowing".

Its been a while since I've shot at S&W. I did not go through any kind of class or check-out, maybe because the first time I shot there was when attending a class. Then I became an IDPA regular, so they knew me. Also, I rarely used the public range because of the issues with the legality of bringing my guns to MA. (OK for training and competition, not ok just to shoot, without a LTC)

I should have stated things differently. It does blow my mind that a large, established company like S&W with such a great facility would not enforce some kind of standards as far as who they let buy range time.

Also, a briefing and acknowledgement is not the same as a check-out. A check-out would involve a brief supervised session where the customer demonstrated they knew how to properly use the target pulley, how to load, fire, and unload a firearm. Nothing complex. It would take 2 minutes.

Don
 
glide said:
So why is it closed? Grow a pair and place the blame where it belongs.
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S&W is first and foremost a business that sells firearms. The range is kindof a hobby for them.
Management has a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders. The second the range works against the shareholders interests, management has an obligation to axe it.

Given this, I'm comfortable with caution.

Don

btw Nasdeq: SWHC
 
For the record, S&W has some very fine Range Officers and they also had a pretty good system once a newbie enters the range. They have a special colored tag so they are identified as such. The RO then pays special care to them and monitors closely with instructions and help... I know, I have seen that many times while shooting there on a regular basis.
 
Thats great, but given the discussion so far, it sounds like it would be possible for someone who has never handled a firearm to walk in, rent a gun, go to a stall and with some extra assistance from the RO, begin shooting.

Is that correct?

I find that disturbing. Not from a rights perspective. But from a business perspective. I would rather not shoot somewhere where that is possible. I think many other customers would choose not to shoot there if they knew that.

I'm not saying that you can't teach yourself to shoot. I learned to shoot pretty much the same way. Books and self taught. But I was out in the woods. There wasn't another person 2 feet from me.

Don
 
dcmdon said:
Thats great, but given the discussion so far, it sounds like it would be possible for someone who has never handled a firearm to walk in, rent a gun, go to a stall and with some extra assistance from the RO, begin shooting.

Is that correct?

I find that disturbing. Not from a rights perspective. But from a business perspective. I would rather not shoot somewhere where that is possible.
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Then I guess you won't be shooting at most indoor pay ranges in america.

I think many other customers would choose not to shoot there if they knew that.
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You would be wrong, although everyone has their own threshold levels regarding safety. Remember also that S&W has one or more ROs on the line at all times, which helps. MFL does this too. (and in either case, they seem to be pretty vigilant, but not so much that they are going to give any safe shooter a hard time).

I can easily see, though, how a pay range can be considered unsafe by some. You take Bob's or AFS and put a few of the "wrong" people in there on the line, and then after watching them you start thinking its a good idea to not be there anymore. [laugh]

-Mike
 
dcmdon said:
Thats great, but given the discussion so far, it sounds like it would be possible for someone who has never handled a firearm to walk in, rent a gun, go to a stall and with some extra assistance from the RO, begin shooting.

Is that correct?

I find that disturbing. Not from a rights perspective. But from a business perspective. I would rather not shoot somewhere where that is possible. I think many other customers would choose not to shoot there if they knew that.

I'm not saying that you can't teach yourself to shoot. I learned to shoot pretty much the same way. Books and self taught. But I was out in the woods. There wasn't another person 2 feet from me.

Don
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What you are describing happens every day at ranges all across the country. I can bring any individual to the range with me, whether they have ever fired a gun or not, licensed or not, and 'as my guest' they can shoot. I guess you don't belong to any gun ranges. I happen to be very responsible and take my new shooters through proper handling, loading, unloading, etc, start them out on something small (22 semiauto) and then progress them up the range of what I have until they find what they want to shoot and continue to supervise them but not everyone who brings guest is this way.
 
dcmdon said:
Thats great, but given the discussion so far, it sounds like it would be possible for someone who has never handled a firearm to walk in, rent a gun, go to a stall and with some extra assistance from the RO, begin shooting.

Is that correct?

I find that disturbing. Not from a rights perspective. But from a business perspective. I would rather not shoot somewhere where that is possible. I think many other customers would choose not to shoot there if they knew that.

I'm not saying that you can't teach yourself to shoot. I learned to shoot pretty much the same way. Books and self taught. But I was out in the woods. There wasn't another person 2 feet from me.
Click to expand...

When I learned to shoot, I bought a Glock 17 and went to a public range. I couldn't shoot out in the woods as I live in suburbia. And guess what? I didn't shoot myself or anyone else.

I attended a lot of shooting classes later, but I started at a public range.
 
dcmdon said:
Thats great, but given the discussion so far, it sounds like it would be possible for someone who has never handled a firearm to walk in, rent a gun, go to a stall and with some extra assistance from the RO, begin shooting.

Is that correct?

I find that disturbing. Not from a rights perspective. But from a business perspective. I would rather not shoot somewhere where that is possible. I think many other customers would choose not to shoot there if they knew that.

I'm not saying that you can't teach yourself to shoot. I learned to shoot pretty much the same way. Books and self taught. But I was out in the woods. There wasn't another person 2 feet from me.

Don
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If you think that's disturbing, never EVER go to American Firearms School.
 
When I first joined the S&W Performance Center(03/04) there were no RO`s on the firing line. I think a suicide on the line convinced them to add the RO.
 
dcmdon said:
Thats great, but given the discussion so far, it sounds like it would be possible for someone who has never handled a firearm to walk in, rent a gun, go to a stall and with some extra assistance from the RO, begin shooting.

Is that correct?

I find that disturbing. Not from a rights perspective. But from a business perspective. I would rather not shoot somewhere where that is possible. I think many other customers would choose not to shoot there if they knew that.

I'm not saying that you can't teach yourself to shoot. I learned to shoot pretty much the same way. Books and self taught. But I was out in the woods. There wasn't another person 2 feet from me.

Don
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Before i got my ltc i walked into S&W with two forms of ID, paid the rent fee and lane fee and shot, you know what happened i put holes in paper before, that i had not shot a handgun. All you need to do is follow the four rules to a T and you will be safe.

and also who made you the gun safety dictator, have fun shooting in the woods by yourself.
 
rwl1955 said:
When I first joined the S&W Performance Center(03/04) there were no RO`s on the firing line. I think a suicide on the line convinced them to add the RO.
Click to expand...

Fat lot of good an RO can do in that situation. Even if he was standing right next to them, he probably couldn't stop someone from shoot themselves.
 

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