Shut your mouth.

Mikelost5 said:
You have a very optimistic outlook on how far we have come and the progress we have made as a country. But thats all it is, optimism. The reality of the situation is very grim and our progress has been slow. You would be naive to think otherwise. I understand and agree with some of what you are saying but i think the underlying division is to real to ignore. The "pockets of hate" are much larger than i think you realize. I'll take it one step further and say that regardless of how we all think we are or feel, there will always be a small part of us that is slightly bigoted. Coming to terms with that reality is half the battle. To change that mindset in our children is other.
Click to expand...

No... not really. Society has co-opted the idea that if you condemn someone (who complains they are being held down by the man) based on their individual lifestyle/choices/effort that you are bigoted. Nope. I'm saying that in that particular case, that person hasn't come anywhere close to exhausting their options to create a better life... EVEN IN THE FACE OF ADVERSITY.... to be able to throw the race card.
 
basically all they really are is a bunch of neckbeard, incel LARPers who have utterly failed in life by every objective metric of success. They're not to be taken seriously in any way shape or form. They're angry and frustrated not because of "neo nazis" and "fascism" (which they are the actual fascists) but rather because 1) They unf***able, 2) unloveable, 3) too lazy to put any effort into life, 4) jealous of their more successful hard working peers so hate capitalism. They're just your every day troglodyte shitbag commies who want to use violence to further a perverted political agenda which they can't even articulate...i.e. they're terrorists (inept, stupid, retarded terrorists).


DrummerGunner said:
No. Antifa’s primary concern is to show up to directly fight white supremacists and neo-Nazis. Since many of those very people they fight now wear uniforms with badges, two things ensue: 1) cops kill people of color disproportionately to that of light skinned people, 2) Antifa becomes not-so-nice to those same cops.
After that , looting and violence is conducted by the desperate, anarchists, and even white supremacy groups looking to delegitimize the protesters
Click to expand...



meh said:
I don't give a rat's ass what they claim. I'm basing my judgment on their actions. They claim to be fighting white supremacists and neo-Nazis, but they don't use the same definitions as everyone else. They set themselves up as the final arbiters of what is "fascism". They use an expanded definition that includes the entire conservative half of the political spectrum and even much of the center. We've seen them organize intimidation tactics and even violent protests to attempt limit free speech rather than respond to it with counter-arguments. In short, they try to shut people up rather than to present a counterpoint. They decide what can be said and what cannot, which classifies them as an anti-civil rights organization in my book. Their use of violence, non-lethal or not, makes them domestic terrorists.

If you believe in constitutional rights and the rule of law, ANTIFA might be the enemy of your enemy in some cases, but they aren't your friend. If you don't support the 1A in areas distasteful to you, then how can you claim to support it at all? Do you support constitutional rights or are you more like a communist or a fascist in that you only support the rights when everything meets with your approval?

Secondly, the disproportionality is ambiguous at best. There was this study which was absolutely not expected by its authors to come out the way it did. Here's the abstract



Thus, while it does indicate that there exist some kind of racial discrimination problem, it nevertheless doesn't support the narrative about cops killing blacks at a disproportionate rate. Perhaps there need to be more studies and more debate on what is actually happening before we decide to riot and burn the place down. I know this much, ANTIFA isn't interested in the truth, regardless of what it might be.
Click to expand...
 
DrummerGunner said:
But here’s the issue: They get away with beating black men and killing them far more.
Click to expand...

I suggest a thought experiment to put things into perspective. Based on what you know and/or suspect, suppose you could waive a magic wand and eliminate racism from the minds of all cops. Would that solve the problem satisfactorily? If not, and in this matter I would say not, then IMHO, it is better to approach the problem without focusing on racial inequity. Inequality, after all, is not the actual problem. The problem is that there are victims at all. Racism begets racism and resentment. Even if we start with a positive motivation, such as trying to treat people better based on race to make up for past injustices, what flows naturally from it will be bad, and racism will increase, not decrease. It is like trying to wield Sauron's ring to do good. The net result is a foregone conclusion.
 
mibro said:
You can't be serious. The looting is just opportunistic undocumented shopping. It serves no political purpose.

In any case, the USA is now too balkanized for a proper revolution, too many factions.
Click to expand...
Disagree with the bolded statement. The looting most certainly serves a political purpose, otherwise Soros wouldn't be paying good money for this to happen. Looting destroys communities and drives good businesses out. Many businesses in these cities have already packed their bags. This depresses the community even further and makes them poorer. Who do poor people turn to these days? You guessed it...the Gubment!! Just another means to destroying more community structures and re-building them with their own agenda.

An end to local policing is another structure for them to destroy and re-build. Funny how everyone is talking about defunding and eliminating law ENFORCEMENT, but not changing any of the laws that police are supposed to enforce! Think about that for a moment. They want the laws to stay in place, so that they can selectively prosecute their political enemies that threaten their power. Look at the Eric Garner case in NYC. This was VERY similar to the George Flyod case in MN. Why wasn't there national protests, riots and looting for that one? Was it b/c of who was in the WH or b/c NYC COPS were enforcing a law that Mayor Big Bird FORCED them to crack down on?!
 
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Horrible said:
Disagree with the bolded statement. The looting most certainly serves a political purpose, otherwise Soros wouldn't be paying good money for this to happen. Looting destroys communities and drives good businesses out. Many businesses in these cities have already packed their bags. This depresses the community even further and makes them poorer. Who to poor people turn to these days? You guessed it...the Gubment!! Just another means to destroying more community structures and re-building them with their own agenda.

An end to local policing is another structure for them to destroy and re-build. Funny how everyone is talking about defunding and eliminating law ENFORCEMENT, but not changing any of the laws that police are supposed to enforce! Think about that for a moment. They want the laws to stay in place, so that they can selectively prosecute their political enemies that threaten their power. Look at the Eric Garner case in NYC. This was VERY similar to the George Flyod case in MN. Why wasn't there national protests, riots and looting for that one? Was it b/c of who was in the WH or b/c NYC COPS were enforcing a law that Mayor Big Bird FORCED them to crack down on?!
Click to expand...

You're 100% correct, sir. Please allow me to rephrase it like this. Undocumented shoppers are not necessarily politically motivated. They may be, but many of them are just there for the shopping. :)
 
jhblaze1 said:
unless you think a tv from target is the same kind of private property as tea owned by a government backed monopoly that employed its own army, then we're not talking about the same thing. Also the Sons of Liberty didn't burn down the Beaver, Dartmouth or Eleanor. Unless they forgot cuz rioting was new to them. They also forgot to burn down the wharf and all the businesses on it too.
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The arguement was about private property specifically. The east India company was backed by the crown not owned by it. To say that the crown AND american citizens weren't both effected by the tea party is a fallacy. Think if the same thing happened today comparatively. Like if big oil was attacked. Tvs at target are not a commodity like tea was then. not even close.
And if you think that the protesters and the rioters are one in the same you are gravely mistaken my friend. Sure there may be some crossover but the majority of rioters are just talking advantage of the situation.
 
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Mikelost5 said:
The arguement was about private property specifically. The east India company was backed by the crown not owned by it. To say that the crown AND american citizens weren't both effected by the tea party is a fallacy. Think if the same thing happened today comparatively. Like if big oil was attacked. Tvs at target are not a commodity like tea was then. not even close.
And if you think that the protesters and the rioters are one in the same you are gravely mistaken my friend. Sure there may be some crossover but the majority of rioters are just talking advantage of the situation.
Click to expand...
How many of those looted items were tossed into the water to make a statement? None. Unlike the tea, they were taken home to benefit solely the looters, not a cause.
 
Mikelost5 said:
The arguement was about private property specifically. The east India company was backed by the crown not owned by it. To say that the crown AND american citizens weren't both effected by the tea party is a fallacy. Think if the same thing happened today comparatively. Like if big oil was attacked. Tvs at target are not a commodity like tea was then. not even close.
And if you think that the protesters and the rioters are one in the same you are gravely mistaken my friend. Sure there may be some crossover but the majority of rioters are just talking advantage of the situation.
Click to expand...
sure, and I later acknowledged that the tea was private property...but even still, it's not the same as a tv from target. My analogy of burning down an agra giant's cornfield to protest BS corn subsidies makes a lot more sense than to liken the recent retard riots to the Boston tea party.

I'm not sure what your bolded sentences are getting at....I've never attempted to liken the retard riots to the tea party so maybe you have me confused with someone else.
 

Roland Deschain said:
No... not really. Society has co-opted the idea that if you condemn someone (who complains they are being held down by the man) based on their individual lifestyle/choices/effort that you are bigoted. Nope. I'm saying that in that particular case, that person hasn't come anywhere close to exhausting their options to create a better life... EVEN IN THE FACE OF ADVERSITY.... to be able to throw the race card.
Click to expand...

I see what your saying and I can agree to an extent, but its still only partially valid. White privilege or lack of privilege for any particular race for that matter, is a multi-generational thing. People hear white privilege and almost literally say the exact thing that you just did, but they don't fully understand what it means. Privilege, or lack there of, is transferred to each generation. If your grandparents were well off, chances are your parents were well off, and then the chances are you will also become well off because of them. In that example you were born into a better opportunity. Apply that same notion to the racial inequality we have had throughout history. It may have gotten better, but its still here. Now I'm not saying that people can't better theirselves, or do worse in their lives, your absolutely right on that, but it can be a lot harder given specific situations that we can't understand. I'm not trying to make excuses for anyone, I'm just saying there is probably a lot more to it than most people think or even care to try to think about.
 
Mikelost5 said:



I see what your saying and I can agree to an extent, but its still only partially valid. White privilege or lack of privilege for any particular race for that matter, is a multi-generational thing. People hear white privilege and almost literally say the exact thing that you just did, but they don't fully understand what it means. Privilege, or lack there of, is transferred to each generation. If your grandparents were well off, chances are your parents were well off, and then the chances are you will also become well off because of them. In that example you were born into a better opportunity. Apply that same notion to the racial inequality we have had throughout history. It may have gotten better, but its still here. Now I'm not saying that people can't better theirselves, or do worse in their lives, your absolutely right on that, but it can be a lot harder given specific situations that we can't understand. I'm not trying to make excuses for anyone, I'm just saying there is probably a lot more to it than most people think or even care to try to think about.
Click to expand...

Until someone can show me they have launched maximum PERSONAL effort to upgrade their life, and STILL gotten nowhere, they fail the 'systemic racism' test. At what point is someone responsible for their own lot in life? Do we make excuses for them forever? You have head start, welfare, schools begging to be woke and have black students, military options and benefits, and affirmative action.... if you can't make it with all those safety nets.... f*** off and stop blaming boogeymen.
 
DrummerGunner said:
Broadbrushing. Name calling. Argument lost.

Antifa calls out racists and fascists. News flash: racists and fascists actually ARE in power across the US. While many of us were distracted by all our flag waving they took office from city level to Federal. Antifa isn’t nice. I’m not excusing the behaviors of the violence. I’m saying that change is ugly and they’ve (BLM Antifa and the youth) have had it.
Click to expand...
The "racists and Fascists" are the far left "progressives" who ARE in power or trying to gain power. They have the Lamestream media touting their cause and have already tried a soft coup against our President. THEY are the enemy and will never stop until Trump is gone and they hold all 3 branches of govt. Then they will go for the kill shot to make sure we are disarmed and disenfranchised from the majority sheeple. Be prepared for anything from now to Election Day.
 
Rehoboth Dave said:
Well actually they were quite violent. Tarring and feathering British tax collectors, rioting, burning, theft, robbery assault, and more.

Check it out. Kinda sounds familiar no?
www.newenglandhistoricalsociety.com

In 1765, Rebels Sacked the Boston Mansion of Thomas Hutchinson - New England Historical Society

Thomas Hutchinson, the lieutenant governor of Massachusetts, had one of the finest homes in Boston – until August 26, 1765. On that night violence boiled over in response to the British plans to impose the Stamp Act on the colonies. The tax would have applied to all official papers in the...
www.newenglandhistoricalsociety.com www.newenglandhistoricalsociety.com
Click to expand...
DrummerGunner said:
Broadbrushing. Name calling. Argument lost.

Antifa calls out racists and fascists. News flash: racists and fascists actually ARE in power across the US. While many of us were distracted by all our flag waving they took office from city level to Federal. Antifa isn’t nice. I’m not excusing the behaviors of the violence. I’m saying that change is ugly and they’ve (BLM Antifa and the youth) have had it.
Click to expand...

Across the US? OK, name a half dozen or so who can be independently verified to be white supremacists.

Additionally, I'm not seeing evidence that Antifa is 'for' anything positive. Yes they state that they are 'against' facists and racists- the ones who fit their capricious and fluid definitions that are based on 'feel' rather than fact.

In the vacuum of Antifa's perfect world, what would fill the void? I don't see a plan other than initial chaos and final oblivion.
 
Roland Deschain said:
Until someone can show me they have launched maximum PERSONAL effort to upgrade their life, and STILL gotten nowhere, they fail the 'systemic racism' test. At what point is someone responsible for their own lot in life? Do we make excuses for them forever? You have head start, welfare, schools begging to be woke and have black students, military options and benefits, and affirmative action.... if you can't make it with all those safety nets.... f*** off and stop blaming boogeymen.
Click to expand...
I work with a Black guy, he is about 28, Married and has 2 kids. This kid works his Monday through Friday 7:30-4 for his 40 hours, leaves work and goes to his cleaning job from 5-10 3 days a week and works “Part time” slinging pizzas when he is not working his cleaning job. He rides his bike to work so his wife can have the car since she has kid duty. This guy is always smiling and tells me that these angry people out there need to just get a job and focus on family. I got so much respect for this guy, he refuses to take me up on my offer of throwing his bike in the back of my truck and letting me give him a ride. He says it’s his “workout” nobody has handed this kid a friggen thing and he takes care of what he needs to take care of. That’s what the majority of the people out there tend to not realize
 
Wickedcoolname said:
Shut my mouth for me if you want. Kneeling like a pussy, smashing widows like a thug, attacking people while masked, and destroying personal property are all acts of criminal thuggery, not of peaceful Patriots.
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Id be happy to if you’re interested in excusing police brutality while lambasting protests getting violent.
Patriotism has never been peaceful...
 
DrummerGunner said:
Id be happy to if you’re interested in excusing police brutality while lambasting protests getting violent.
Patriotism has never been peaceful...
Click to expand...

You think these people are Patriots? Laughable. If they took over tomorrow, it wouldn't be a liberterian utopia. You are delusional
 
Look, the over arching point of my ‘tirade’ was to say that if you’re exercising your 2A and feel that it’s being taken away, you’d be out there armed to defend it, yes? YES! That’s what WE do.

well that’s just one ‘right’. If you’re feeling like people cops or powers that be, are taking away your right ....to breathe.... you’re not going to ask if it’s ok for you to shut the whole thing down! You’re going to stop EVERYTHING from happening. You all need to understand that whether you feel affected or not, to many this is a civil war.

Think what you will of me but when you see statements on even Call of Duty (which is all about pro military/cop) saying what I’m saying And the whole globe is protesting.... maybe just maybe your beliefs need to be re-examined. Maybe not . Maybe you’re right and I’m full of shit.

In the end you’ll be fighting something or someone. in a civil society laws matter. Rights matter. Take away a souls right to breathe and screaming about 2A is moot.

I support rights. Defending them is often ugly and collateral damage imminent.
 
DrummerGunner said:
Id be happy to if you’re interested in excusing police brutality while lambasting protests getting violent.
Patriotism has never been peaceful...
Click to expand...

I’m somewhat with you here but I don’t think anyone (mostly) here is excusing police brutality. The first threads on the murder described it as just that; murder. Many NESers were full on board with protests but then it went sideways. Unfortunately, Looting started and when action taken to push back (tear gas, rubber bullets, etc.) against said crimes of opportunity started being portrayed by the media as way over the top, many called BS. Dude got murdered, people are rightfully pissed. Go protest! But if you get unruly or decide to break some stuff, expect a shove or a punch in the mouth, or a face full of OC. What many newcomers here fail to grasp is the ability to compartmentalize incidents and understand that one action may not be synonymous with another, and that lines of thinking can be wholly independent from one another.

Murder- bad
Murderous cops- really bad
Protest- good
Angry protest- go for it!
Looting and then whining- bad, and now we’re sick of your crap because you had an opportunity with an entire nation and community ready to listen and you freaking muffed it.
Anarchists masquerading as Antifascists- laughable.

I just want black, married, gay, pot farmers to be able to protect their crops with AR’s and standard capacity magazines.
 
DrummerGunner said:
YES! That’s what WE do.

Think what you will of me but / Maybe you’re right and I’m full of shit.
Click to expand...

What’s this “WE” stuff? Don’t think for a minute that you and I are a “WE”, or even on the same page.

The last statement above is the first thing you’ve said that I actually agree with.
 

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