Show on ABC's 20/20 Tonight (4-10): "If I only had a gun"

[hardy]

This was a good comment on abc's page,

BIAS REPORTING. Each time during the staged scenarios you presented were skewed in favor of the shooter. Each time the shooter entered the room, he shot the instructor then immediately knew who had the gun and shot them next. How many times did this happen. In a real life-shooting situation will the shooter know which of 25 people in the room is going to have a defensive weapon? Those extra seconds count. At least the good guy went down trying. I mean in that situation all the students were going to get shot anyways, so maybe if a few people were armed in self defense they could have stopped the body count at 7 or 8 instead of 20 or more. And as Diane sawyer’s suggestion of hiding under a desk and calling 911...give me a break. We all see how that worked out in columbine and Va Tech . Last thought...maybe the students in the scenario couldn’t get their gun out in time (big cumbersome gloves and humongoid baggy shirt) but what if that shooting had started in the next classroom and they knew what was about to happen. that completely changes the results of 2020's BIAS report.

 

[RI_John]

Although I turned it off after about 3 minutes, so don't know the fake scenarios played on TV, I gather from the few posts I've read (can't stomach reading the whole thread- just ate), that they weren't realistic.

How about Fox or Glenn Beck or some show set up their OWN scenario, based on Virginia Tech. Play it out as follows- hide ONE person with a concealed handgun in 5 classrooms. Each of these persons must have grown up handling firearms from a young age. Each must shoot at a range and practice drawing from a concealed holster once a month or so for at least a couple years. No LE, just regular folks, probably typical members here.

The shooter must be an absolute novice. He must know how to reload an auto pistol, but nothing else, not even know how to clear a jam. Now, to do it right, don't tell the hidden "students" carrying when or if a shooter is going to come down the hall. Even set up false alerts, have random students bust in the class late for class, etc. Make it fair.

Then have the shooter start going down the hall, classroom to classroom, executing as many as he can. Don't tell him that anyone has a weapon. Let him assume he is in charge and can kill at will.

Any takers on whether he could clear all 5 classrooms without being killed? Would he be able to take out 30 students? 20? 10? 5? 1?

My guess is the absolute best he could do would be to take out the first classroom, assuming he got extremely lucky. Do you think, perhaps, that the guys or gals packing in classrooms 2-5 might actually recognize the distinct sound of gunfire and thus be even MORE prepared when shooter comes to their class?

Seriously. The above would be a FAIR scenario, it's how this crap usually plays out. Even forgetting V-Tech, how many time have you read about these mass shootings where the dumbass loser murderer takes a long time to reload while everyone is crying and cowering under their desks with their eyes closed? Do you think MAYBE someone carrying could get off a shot then???

 

[mikem317]

Has anybody uploaded it yet?

 

[bolt]

I caught it to...........it was a total "guns are evil" BS peice of TV trash for the uninformed IMO

 

[beach]

I hope the NRA or some other entitiy can get a hold of all the footage. It is apparent that 20/20 had its own agenda. In school we saw a show 20/20 or some other mainstream media did on Nuclear Power. Similar to this piece of garbage they aired last night. Even with their agenda when you watched all the footage that shot for the episode you can clearly see it was not journalizame it was an infomertial.

Secondly, The comment about how much training the Police receive every month to overcome stress and build muscle memory? I question how much ongoing training in firing under stress police actually have after the acadamy. I am sure gang units, tactical units receive it every month but I would be surprised if its common for the average town p.o

 

[Horrible]

THEY CANNOT FIND ONE STUDY SHOWING THE BENEFITS OF GUNS!!!! Because it was...contradictory.

*sniff*

Do you smell that? Yup, that is more bullshit.

If they couldn't find any studies, they must have not really looked that hard.

http://www.rense.com/general76/univ.htm

That is some fantastic investigative journalism by Diane Sawyer and ABC on this one .

 

[USMA-82]

Well, I got an emailed reply from my comment to ABC:

Basically, it said, "we get so many emails we obviously can't respond to every one, but we appreciate your thoughts. Keep sending those emails!"

Riiiiiiiiiiight.......

 

[Titan]

The points they were trying to make:

1) Having a gun does not make you any safer in a mass shooting incident....and you might shoot someone accidentally.

2) Your gun may be picked up and misused by a child.

3) Anyone can get a gun.

We have youTube and can fight back with some video footage of our own. Maybe a competing news program would be willing to air a counterpoint argument if we make it.

Point #1 could easily be restaged and filmed by a number of us getting together with some camcorders and simunition. it would be interesting to take some folks that shoot IPDA/USPSA and see how well they do in a REAL WORLD scenario. The point could be made that with a small amount of practical shooting experience in a real world scenario a CCW IS useful.

Point #2 is fought with a 30 second video clip of some common easy access firearm safes that we all use.

Point #3 is basically true and any attempt to fight it risks giving TPTB ideas about registration etc.

Comments?

As for point #3...."Anyone can get a gun."....

Convicted criminals and those declared mentally ill and a threat to the safety of others or themselves are forbidden to legally own guns.

Everyone else is ENTITLED to own a gun, as reaffirmed by the Second Amendment.


As for unconvicted criminals, gang members, etc.....The cops could always attempt to enforce existing gun laws and stamp out gang activity.

.

 

[Coyote33]

My wife said there was some show where they brought some money into a gun show and walked out with guns. It might have been Friday night. I said, yeah, tell me where I can do that without breaking the law?

Oh, and a brother was complaining how guns are OK, but why do we need to sell people AK-47's?

People just don't get it, but eat what they are fed.

 

[johnN]

I hope the NRA or some other entitiy can get a hold of all the footage. It is apparent that 20/20 had its own agenda. In school we saw a show 20/20 or some other mainstream media did on Nuclear Power. Similar to this piece of garbage they aired last night. Even with their agenda when you watched all the footage that shot for the episode you can clearly see it was not journalizame it was an infomertial.

Secondly, The comment about how much training the Police receive every month to overcome stress and build muscle memory? I question how much ongoing training in firing under stress police actually have after the acadamy. I am sure gang units, tactical units receive it every month but I would be surprised if its common for the average town p.o

i the Gloucester paper yesterday there was an article about the Pd's range. it is closed due to complaints of noise, but stated mass min training regiment is 15 days. although there is no recourse if this is not done here.

 

[01SVTvert]

I believe MA PD training is either one or two qualifications a year. Used to be once but I have been out of the loop for a while and it might be two now. Minimum training hours is 40 per year in all subjects I believe. No way aree they training every PO in the state 15 days a year just on firearms. Three weeks training a year just on that wouldnt happen due to nothing other than cost considerations.

 

[Len-2A Training]

PD annual re-certification is 40 hours total/year and this includes 1 day for firearms qualification. They've changed the actual qualification methods in the past year . . . I'll let JonJ fill in that blank as I haven't seen the course of fire yet.

Very few PDs do more training than this in firearms due to budget (OT and ammo) constraints. [Speaking of line officers, not specialized teams . . . they get a lot more trigger time/year.]

 

[Airwolfe1]

I rarely pass along a rant, but it just burns me when Huge Media Outlets disguise blatantly deceptive propaganda as an impartial news program. I just knew Dianne Sawyer would spin this.

Most shooters know that Massad Ayoob, writes his Blog, http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/ and is an Icon in the Defensive Shooting Industry. He regularly contributes to several shooting magazines, blogs, gun podcasts, gun related TV and Radio programs, is a Law Enforcement officer for 30 years, runs his own shooting school (Lethal Force Institute for 28yrs), author of several definitive "Gun Books" (most notable, "In the Gravest Extreme" and his most recent, "The Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry") and has frequently testified as an expert witness in several court cases involving shootings. When he speaks, people in the industry listen because his responses are very well reasoned and articulated, he removes his emotion and bias from the issue, and merely conveys the facts. I bet they could have easily gotten him to balance out the story if they had had any interest in doing so.

I would recommend reading his blogs at http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/ and encourage your friends to read it and his books as well. A quote he has often said, "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away! "Reasonable gun safety" as the liberals like to call it, i.e. gun control, is in the eye of the beholder and the criminals continue to demonstrate no law is worth going unbroken. If they are willing to commit murder, do you think they will really comply with anyother knee jerk gun laws? Stop the madness! Focus on the bad guys, not the good guys! Oh but wait, it's easier to regulate the good guys, because they all follow the laws!

 

[Marcus5aurelius]

Please it is important to make a well thought out complaint to ABC's 20/20. I just forced myself to watch all their articles and I think my blood pressure just doubled. There is so much wrong with each report it would takes me hours to write but in brief:

The report where they slander concealed carry: The firearm instructer knows which seat each student is sitting in and focuses strickly on that student, each student is given minimum training, for the students that would take down the intruder they place a second shooter right next to him...(ok this time there are 10 gunmen, lets see if the concealed carrier can shoot all 10 intruders at once), and even more importantly ABC's entire point is "don't carry a weapon, you could still die". So...a room of unarmed students will survive otherwise?

To the report that slanders teenagers finding loaded guns: I would like to see the same scenario consisting of teenagers who all took firearm safety courses and are familiar with firearms. They most likely would pull out the mag, take the remaining bullet from the chamber, deam it safe and then tell the adult. This would prove that the only dangerous scenarios are those are children who have never touched a firearm before and find it interesting.

To the report that "proves" the gunshow loophole: No filming of the transaction takes place. You do not hear what he says to the gun dealers and vice versa. I have been to many gunshows and have never heard a dealer say "give me a hundred extra and I won't ask". For all we know he has a class A license, goes inside and comes out with an arm full of guns. I like when the guy comes over at the end and just because he asks "do you have any .22s" he is deamed an illegal buyer.

I'm sorry if this was a slight rant on my behalf, I just do not want to see propaganda being used to take away our rights. Before I watched 20/20 I was watching some videos on England's current situation and it's just frustrating to see it unfold before our eyes. This great nation on the brink of a total loss of freedom.

-Mark