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"Show Me Your LTC", said the LEO....
- Thread starter MisterHappy
- Start date
Hunting
Had a landowner call the cops on me after I walked across his property. It was not posted and I was unloaded and tracking game.
When the officer showed up I was standing on the side of the road waiting for a ride. AR leaning on my pack on the ground.
He asked for ID, LTC & hunting license was all I had. While waiting for the check he asked about the rail on my gun. Got the word I was good and he took off.
Had a landowner call the cops on me after I walked across his property. It was not posted and I was unloaded and tracking game.
When the officer showed up I was standing on the side of the road waiting for a ride. AR leaning on my pack on the ground.
He asked for ID, LTC & hunting license was all I had. While waiting for the check he asked about the rail on my gun. Got the word I was good and he took off.
AHM
NES Member
And before anyone says that's completely pointless analysis, I just now tripped over smokey-seven highlighting this issue in the recent thread Random Mass Pike Framingham Plaza Conversation.
My wife had an interesting encounter today. She was pulled over for taking a right on red where it wasn't Allowed. The stop want fine. The officer was pleasant and she was let off with a warning.
The interning part was when he delivered th warning he asked if my wife had her LTC, which she does. And then he asked "what are you supposed to tell me" and her response is I don't know what?
He said "that you have your LTC so I could know if you have a weapon in the car. She wasn't carrying and had no weapon. When she got home the first thing she asked me is if he was right. She didnt think she had to, especially if she wasn't carrying. Other than the officer not understanding this law particularly well the rest of the stop was fine.
The interning part was when he delivered th warning he asked if my wife had her LTC, which she does. And then he asked "what are you supposed to tell me" and her response is I don't know what?
He said "that you have your LTC so I could know if you have a weapon in the car. She wasn't carrying and had no weapon. When she got home the first thing she asked me is if he was right. She didnt think she had to, especially if she wasn't carrying. Other than the officer not understanding this law particularly well the rest of the stop was fine.
MaverickNH
NES Member
As a NH resident with a MA Non-Resident LTC, I was pulled over in an operation where parked units radioed in car/plate to pull over, with multiple units processing chosen ones (out of state with no relatives being cops, politicians or lawyers were pulled from 75-80mph traffic). After initial pull-over, I was boxed front, back and side by cars with doors open and LEOs crouched. "Any guns or drugs in the car I should know about?" No drugs, I have a MA LTC but am headed to NY and don't have it with me. All units peeled off, and I got my ticket. Have a god day Sir.
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Multiple:
First time, outed by an old lady in a Wal-Mart (of course!) parking lot. Got out of my car, adjusted my pants, she apparently saw the gun, called Po-Po, who VERY politely talked to me 10 minutes later in the store. Lady cop said "Maybe be more careful next time?" to which I replied "Maybe people should mind their f-ing business and be told as much by dispatch." She agreed, "But...."
Second time, pulled over exiting a liquor store parking lot, apparently my license plate light was out. Whatever... Cop saw the K-Bar between the center console and passenger seat. "Any other weapons?" "Yup, 1911 on my hip." "Ok..." 5 minutes later, back with a "Get that light fixed, kay?" and off I went. Come to think of it, he never DID ask for the LTC, guess he ran me and found out that way...
Funny thing, the cop that wrote me a $235 ticket for "excess window tint" in Lowell that I cursed out and generally screamed at and gave the finger to never even asked...
First time, outed by an old lady in a Wal-Mart (of course!) parking lot. Got out of my car, adjusted my pants, she apparently saw the gun, called Po-Po, who VERY politely talked to me 10 minutes later in the store. Lady cop said "Maybe be more careful next time?" to which I replied "Maybe people should mind their f-ing business and be told as much by dispatch." She agreed, "But...."
Second time, pulled over exiting a liquor store parking lot, apparently my license plate light was out. Whatever... Cop saw the K-Bar between the center console and passenger seat. "Any other weapons?" "Yup, 1911 on my hip." "Ok..." 5 minutes later, back with a "Get that light fixed, kay?" and off I went. Come to think of it, he never DID ask for the LTC, guess he ran me and found out that way...
Funny thing, the cop that wrote me a $235 ticket for "excess window tint" in Lowell that I cursed out and generally screamed at and gave the finger to never even asked...
fencer
NES Member
I would not be able to resist sending the cop an email letting him know his mistake.
Dennis in MA
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Never. On my only trip to the taxpayer-subsidized pheasant hunt 2 seasons ago, Ranger Rick was checking permits and junk. I loaded my truck while he was 2 cars off, then walked over to my buddy's truck, who'd already been checked.
F them. I didn't go out of my way to not get checked out, but gimme a break.
And why the heck does he want my hunting lic, my LTC AND my DL??? Gimme a break. (Well, not mine, because he couldn't keep track of who he talked with and who he didn't.)
F them. I didn't go out of my way to not get checked out, but gimme a break.
And why the heck does he want my hunting lic, my LTC AND my DL??? Gimme a break. (Well, not mine, because he couldn't keep track of who he talked with and who he didn't.)
Don't know what state this happened in, but MA, NH, VT and ME (with their license) do NOT require notification on contact with LE!
Most cops are clueless about the gun laws and stops like this just continue to prove it.
MisterHappy
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Say it ain't so, Joe!
Interesting thread. Point-of-Reference - in South Carolina, a VERY gun-friendly state, it is expected that all CCP holders announce, in-advance, of their permit when encountering LEOs. If they ask for License and Registration, you hand-over license, registration, AND your permit. It is expected - if you have a CCP, and you don't provide it on the outset, they get VERY UPSET with the concept of someone being evasive about having a firearm on their person. If you're carrying during a traffic stop, the LEO will ask you to surrender your firearm temporarily during the traffic stop - this is routine. They return your firearm to you at the conclusion of the traffic-stop/encounter. The first time I failed to provide my CCP without them asking, I was read the riot-act several decibels above conversation by a red-faced officer who stopped me for doing 42 in a 35, but saw the card in my wallet.
It is perfectly legal to carry a firearm without a CCP in the glove-compartment of your vehicle in SC. If you have one there, you declare it and surrender it during the stop, then get it back when business is concluded. The idea that a MA cop would let you keep your gun on your person during a traffic stop is baffling to me, but if they're comfortable, then I'm comfortable.....
It is perfectly legal to carry a firearm without a CCP in the glove-compartment of your vehicle in SC. If you have one there, you declare it and surrender it during the stop, then get it back when business is concluded. The idea that a MA cop would let you keep your gun on your person during a traffic stop is baffling to me, but if they're comfortable, then I'm comfortable.....
It's not baffling to me, Good LEOs that aren't douchebags let people do it all the time. Whats the purpose of disarming someone with a state verifiable "hey, he's not a violent felon" card in his wallet?
-Mike
Last I knew you do not have to produce a pistol permit in CT, even at a traffic stop, but I know the moonbats are trying to change that. In fact there have been several cases in CT recently where people were open carrying (perfectly legal in CT ) and a cop asked to see their permit. That is not allowed unless the person carrying is under reasonable suspicion of having committed a crime. I think it was Waterbury or Danbury PD that was sued and lost over that.
It is basically profiling a person who is doing a legal act (open carrying) as someone who they think might be breaking a law (carrying with no permit). It's like pulling over motorists to check for driver's licenses because they see them driving a car.
I will never volunteer my permit just because I happen to be carrying and mine is not in open view in my wallet. If asked to show them a permit I will ask why they are asking me such a thing. If they don't say I am under suspicion of committing a crime I will remind them that the only reason I can be made to produce a pistol permit is for that reason. If they say I am under suspicion of committing a crime I will ask them what crime, etc.
I'm not looking for trouble so I'm not going to get into a heated argument with a cop over it. I will show my permit if the cop insists since I have nothing to hide but I will let him know I am doing so voluntarily to not be a PITA. I will take the cops name and badge number and follow up with that PD and let them know their officer asked to see my permit illegally and that they are opening themselves up for lawsuits which they will absolutely lose if they continue to do this to people.
It is basically profiling a person who is doing a legal act (open carrying) as someone who they think might be breaking a law (carrying with no permit). It's like pulling over motorists to check for driver's licenses because they see them driving a car.
I will never volunteer my permit just because I happen to be carrying and mine is not in open view in my wallet. If asked to show them a permit I will ask why they are asking me such a thing. If they don't say I am under suspicion of committing a crime I will remind them that the only reason I can be made to produce a pistol permit is for that reason. If they say I am under suspicion of committing a crime I will ask them what crime, etc.
I'm not looking for trouble so I'm not going to get into a heated argument with a cop over it. I will show my permit if the cop insists since I have nothing to hide but I will let him know I am doing so voluntarily to not be a PITA. I will take the cops name and badge number and follow up with that PD and let them know their officer asked to see my permit illegally and that they are opening themselves up for lawsuits which they will absolutely lose if they continue to do this to people.
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When you get stopped in Ohio and the LE officer runs your plate they can see if you have a CHL/CCW permit. When Ohio first started issuing and they ran your plate, it came up that there was a warrant and the officer called for back-up. All contact with LE requires notification that you're carrying, so after they had you produce your DL, proof of insurance, registration, and CHL, they cleared you.
"Back in the day," I notified the LE who pulled me over for an illegal traffic stop (he was literally two miles away, speeding from the opposite direction and claimed to have picked me up on radar going 70 mph in a 55 mph zone) that I had a CHL and did as I had been instructed in the past, notify them that you're carrying, you have a CHL, and ask them if there was anything that they wanted you to do. He took this as an insult, ordered me out of the car, grabbed my gun, handcuffed me, cleared my gun, and dumped the ammo on the ground. Somehow, asking him if there was anything he wanted me to do was taken as an insult ("Do you think I'm afraid of you sir? Well I'm not. You're just a punk with an empty gun now."). I was detained for the better part of an hour on the outskirts of BF nowhere (Columbiana County). He made me apologize for having sped in his town before he took the handcuffs off, made me sign for the speeding ticket for a BS speeding offense, and let me have my gun and ammo back.
I respect the LE community as a whole and always cooperate with them, even if they are a total a-hole. I would have reported this cop, but this dept. has a number of a-holes, including another cop who offered to let my ex-wife off a speeding ticket (also a ticket that was completely BS) if she gave him "something."
"Back in the day," I notified the LE who pulled me over for an illegal traffic stop (he was literally two miles away, speeding from the opposite direction and claimed to have picked me up on radar going 70 mph in a 55 mph zone) that I had a CHL and did as I had been instructed in the past, notify them that you're carrying, you have a CHL, and ask them if there was anything that they wanted you to do. He took this as an insult, ordered me out of the car, grabbed my gun, handcuffed me, cleared my gun, and dumped the ammo on the ground. Somehow, asking him if there was anything he wanted me to do was taken as an insult ("Do you think I'm afraid of you sir? Well I'm not. You're just a punk with an empty gun now."). I was detained for the better part of an hour on the outskirts of BF nowhere (Columbiana County). He made me apologize for having sped in his town before he took the handcuffs off, made me sign for the speeding ticket for a BS speeding offense, and let me have my gun and ammo back.
I respect the LE community as a whole and always cooperate with them, even if they are a total a-hole. I would have reported this cop, but this dept. has a number of a-holes, including another cop who offered to let my ex-wife off a speeding ticket (also a ticket that was completely BS) if she gave him "something."
I suppose if you're first-name-basis with LEO-types, and you know what makes them 'comfortable', you're good-to-go....if you're playing games, and want to get belligerent about 'your rights' on the side of the road, just remember what happened to Philando Castile....
Respect is earned, not given. I don't think some cop who's a POS should get instant respect and admiration from us serfs just because he has a badge.
But at least the brave officer went home safe. I understand that most citizen complaints fall on deaf ears, but my God man, this guy sexually harassed your wife and you did nothing?
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pastera
NES Member
Baffling why? People who go out of their way to get an LTC or CCP aren't the ones the police need to worry about - I find it baffling that once informed the officer would feel the need to disarm the driver.
Do they also disarm any passengers?
Can't tell if serious. Castile had a carry permit, informed the officer of such even though he had no legal duty to do so, and was shot by the trigger happy cop when he pulled his wallet from his pocket.
Or are you trying to say that having a verbal argument with a police officer is grounds for instant execution?
Not sure what Philando Castile and "someone getting uppity about their rights" has anything to do with a policy of automatic disarmament on the side of the road over a busted headlight or some other trivial traffic stop reason. (I mean let's face facts, most traffic stops are boring, and go off without much problem. )
ETA: So you are suggesting that the incompetent cop be allowed to automatically disarm someone like Castile? Not sure how that would have improved the situation there. That LEO went full retard and got prosecuted for it, btw.
If anything Castile's case is the reason I don't keep my wallet in my clothing while driving. It goes in a compartment or some other
area I can reach at without digging. If I get stopped I usually will put it on the dashboard.
They must not pay the cops a lot of money down there, getting them from the gutter or something, if they really believe that disarming a guy who just voluntarily handed them a carry license is actually necessary.
-Mike
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This is why I use two wallets, one in each back pocket. One for money and normal IDs, the other for anything gun related.
My wife and I were hiking in the woods on a piece of land we'd recently purchased. We spontaneously decided to fire a few rounds from my carry gun (she'd never shot it). Unbeknownst to us, surveyors we'd hired were also out in the woods. We stopped shooting when we heard voices far off to our left.
As we came out off the woods, local PD is coming up driveway ( 1 officer, not jacked up.)
Conversation as follows:
Me: "Hi"
Officer: "Hello. Were you just shooting up in there?"
Me: "Yup"
Officer: "Can I see your LTC and Driver's Licenses please?"
We produce them and he runs them and my plate through his comms. While he's doing that, my surveyor calls me to tell me he called the cops on someone shooting in the woods.
Officer returns our ID.
Officer: "You're all set. What were you shooting?"
I show him my gun.
Officer: "That's nice.... I'd like to do more recreational shooting myself."
Me: "We just bought this property. We're gun people and we will be shooting here on a regular basis. Do you want me to call you guys when we're going to be shooting?" (Some NESers will flame me for that. So be it.)
Officer: "Nope. We know who you are now. Have fun."
I know for a fact that police have been called on us on 2 other occasions. There was no police response to our property on either occasion.
Not everywhere in Mass is hopeless. Not every cop is a JBT. (But overall, its pretty f@#$ing bad I know... Can't go to NH or SC, but happy to take my family from the city to this little town.)
Thanks for reading.
As we came out off the woods, local PD is coming up driveway ( 1 officer, not jacked up.)
Conversation as follows:
Me: "Hi"
Officer: "Hello. Were you just shooting up in there?"
Me: "Yup"
Officer: "Can I see your LTC and Driver's Licenses please?"
We produce them and he runs them and my plate through his comms. While he's doing that, my surveyor calls me to tell me he called the cops on someone shooting in the woods.
Officer returns our ID.
Officer: "You're all set. What were you shooting?"
I show him my gun.
Officer: "That's nice.... I'd like to do more recreational shooting myself."
Me: "We just bought this property. We're gun people and we will be shooting here on a regular basis. Do you want me to call you guys when we're going to be shooting?" (Some NESers will flame me for that. So be it.)
Officer: "Nope. We know who you are now. Have fun."
I know for a fact that police have been called on us on 2 other occasions. There was no police response to our property on either occasion.
Not everywhere in Mass is hopeless. Not every cop is a JBT. (But overall, its pretty f@#$ing bad I know... Can't go to NH or SC, but happy to take my family from the city to this little town.)
Thanks for reading.
MisterHappy
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Irish - out the town (if not your address), so people know where to check the "house for sale" websites! ![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Part of the problem is there is no consistent policy even within towns (let alone states) that is effectively communicated to the public or followed by LE. There is no justifiable reason to disarm a driver who is licensed to carry. I get it, some cops are not gun people and/or get nervous when anyone else is carrying. That is not justification to disarm.
I have gotten into discussions with police on this forum who disagree but they are seeing it strictly from their perspective and not seeing it as an egregious and illegal violation of the person's 2a rights, which it is. Disarming someone is removing their 2a rights which you cannot do without due process. If they are placing you under arrest then yes they can disarm you because you are being charged with a crime that warrants arrest but a traffic stop is not a crime and does not warrant arrest or disarmament.
I do respect cops because I respect the uniform until they prove otherwise. Yes, respect is earned but signing up to be a cop and making it through training and possibly having to put your life on the line as part of your job (rare I know but it is a possibility) earns my respect. If they turn out to be a JBT or other type of douche my respect for them is gone.
The vast majority of cops I have met have been very courteous, professional and seemed to be genuinely good people so I have no issues with them as a whole. That said, my respect for the rule of law, the Constitution and the rights guaranteed therein run much deeper than my respect for police or anyone else.
I have gotten into discussions with police on this forum who disagree but they are seeing it strictly from their perspective and not seeing it as an egregious and illegal violation of the person's 2a rights, which it is. Disarming someone is removing their 2a rights which you cannot do without due process. If they are placing you under arrest then yes they can disarm you because you are being charged with a crime that warrants arrest but a traffic stop is not a crime and does not warrant arrest or disarmament.
I do respect cops because I respect the uniform until they prove otherwise. Yes, respect is earned but signing up to be a cop and making it through training and possibly having to put your life on the line as part of your job (rare I know but it is a possibility) earns my respect. If they turn out to be a JBT or other type of douche my respect for them is gone.
The vast majority of cops I have met have been very courteous, professional and seemed to be genuinely good people so I have no issues with them as a whole. That said, my respect for the rule of law, the Constitution and the rights guaranteed therein run much deeper than my respect for police or anyone else.
MisterHappy
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Hell, I've heard of gun clubs where CC is frowned upon. IIRC, I once saw range rules for a Trap field that prohibited having a pistol on your belt, while shooting.
Normally, I'm against the use of "Fudd" as a self-divisive term.....but that's Fuddery, of the First Order.
Perhaps the cops that want an LTC holder to hand over their iron, are on the Board at that Club.
Full disclosure - I don't always carry, but once, I brought a pistol for "Show and Tell" at Gallery Pistol night. It was not my target gun. So, I shot the course with an extra gat on my belt. Didn't improve my score.![[sad]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/004.gif "Sad [sad]")
Nobody seemed to care.
Normally, I'm against the use of "Fudd" as a self-divisive term.....but that's Fuddery, of the First Order.
Perhaps the cops that want an LTC holder to hand over their iron, are on the Board at that Club.
Full disclosure - I don't always carry, but once, I brought a pistol for "Show and Tell" at Gallery Pistol night. It was not my target gun. So, I shot the course with an extra gat on my belt. Didn't improve my score.
Nobody seemed to care.
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amm5061
NES Member
Irish - out the town (if not your address), so people know where to check the "house for sale" websites!
^ This! I wanna know where to watch for listings.
