"Show Me Your LTC", said the LEO....

[rivet_42]

My collection of LTCs is buried way the hell down in my wallet where it won't accidentally get exposed digging for stuff like my license, library card, CharlieCard, credit cards, etc., etc.

Dumb question: I have a second wallet that I carry if I don't want a big fat wallet with lots of cards in it breaking up the lines of my clothes. (E.g. if I'm wearing a suit, or tight jeans. Flames about my sartorial choices to /dev/null, please.) I typically transfer my driver license, my ATM card, a couple of credit cards, and my health insurance ID (in case I get in a car wreck!), plus maybe one or two other things I think I'm going to need. (E.g. my CharlieCard if traveling by T.)

Would it be prudent to have my Mass. LTC on me, even if I'm not in possession of a firearm or ammunition?

 

[MisterHappy]

My collection of LTCs is buried way the hell down in my wallet where it won't accidentally get exposed digging for stuff like my license, library card, CharlieCard, credit cards, etc., etc.

Dumb question: I have a second wallet that I carry if I don't want a big fat wallet with lots of cards in it breaking up the lines of my clothes. (E.g. if I'm wearing a suit, or tight jeans. Flames about my sartorial choices to /dev/null, please.) I typically transfer my driver license, my ATM card, a couple of credit cards, and my health insurance ID (in case I get in a car wreck!), plus maybe one or two other things I think I'm going to need. (E.g. my CharlieCard if traveling by T.)

Would it be prudent to have my Mass. LTC on me, even if I'm not in possession of a firearm or ammunition?

Why would it be? Unless you might come across a sweet deal, or see a new LGS with ammo you want.

 

[tk421991]

Why would it be? Unless you might come across a sweet deal, or see a new LGS with ammo you want.

This is why I always carry my NH one, plus I always want to have it so I can't forget it. The NH one is just a piece of paper anyways. The NH carry permit is just a carry permit though - I don't need it to buy anything, but if I wanted to carry something out of a store, I'd have my permit.

 

[rivet_42]

Why would it be? Unless you might come across a sweet deal, or see a new LGS with ammo you want.

Just thinking about a scenario where Officer Friendly runs my plate through SCMODS and finds out I have an LTC. "Any guns in the car," etc., etc. As far as I know there's no legal requirement to have it in possession unless you're in possession of guns and ammo, but you never know. Massprudence, I guess.

 

[noxin]

Just thinking about a scenario where Officer Friendly runs my plate through SCMODS and finds out I have an LTC. "Any guns in the car," etc., etc. As far as I know there's no legal requirement to have it in possession unless you're in possession of guns and ammo, but you never know. Massprudence, I guess.

If you're in the habit of always having it, you won't forget it when you "need" it. Additionally, have you ever "lost" a cartridge in your car? If Officer Friendly decides to jam you up, he can use the lack of LTC as an avenue if he finds the ammo. ( I know I know, edge case, but it's still the law).

 

[Terminator03]

If you're in the habit of always having it, you won't forget it when you "need" it. Additionally, have you ever "lost" a cartridge in your car? If Officer Friendly decides to jam you up, he can use the lack of LTC as an avenue if he finds the ammo. ( I know I know, edge case, but it's still the law).

Does anyone know if this is actually true? Even if you don't have your LTC on your person, it would take no more time than running your DL, SSN, etc. to find out that you in fact have a valid LTC. Obviously it would cause you a delay, but I seriously doubt you'd get jammed up over it.

 

[TomMontana]

I make laminated color copies of my LTC and leave one in the glove box and one in the range bag. Also made a copy of my driver's license. Never had to use the copies, but thought it made sense just in case I left my wallet at home.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Last Thursday at my renewal appointment.

 

[MisterHappy]

Last Thursday at my renewal appointment.

I had to show my old (expired, actually) LTC to pick up my new LTC. They needed photo ID, you see.....

 

[Radtekk]

Got pulled over on the bike after picking my daughter up after her first day of school. Left the lot "loudly" and blew past a cop at 60+ in a 25. 1911 in an MOB holster, made reaching for the registration in the fork bag difficult. He wrote me a ticket for "non-standard/loud exhaust" and sent me on my way. No idea if he knew I had an LTC, but it could have been ugly.

Got pulled over for "excessive tint" in Lowell. After the cop gave me a $235 ticket I cursed him up down and sideways. Told him to go solve an actual crime. Told him "I pay your salary..." Flipped him off as he drove away. Also never asked if I carried, was armed, etc.

Got pulled over for burnt out license plate light 100 yards after pulling out of a liquor store. Cop saw the k-bar stuck between the seat and center console, asked if I had anything else in the car. "1911 on my right hip." "Got a license for it?" "Yup" "ok, get that light fixed, have a good night"

Wardrobe malfunction (hitching the jeans after exiting the car) at Walmart. Old biddy ratted me out to 911. Popo showed up while I was inside. Nice chat: "Carrying?"
Yup.
License?
Yup.
Can I see it?
Here.
Thanks. Be more careful, people are stupid.
Yup.

So, not sure how to answer the poll

 

[rivet_42]

Does anyone know if this is actually true? Even if you don't have your LTC on your person, it would take no more time than running your DL, SSN, etc. to find out that you in fact have a valid LTC. Obviously it would cause you a delay, but I seriously doubt you'd get jammed up over it.

Depends on how much of a jerk the cop wants to be. My girlfriend lives in Medford so I have no way to avoid that town. Ever since the incident with Det. Lebert went viral I am kind of nervous about getting into an encounter with the police there despite knowing that I am 100% law abiding.

 

[Wrench75]

Sheriff at my house years ago confiscating my POS pickup due to a judgement about money I owed the college I went to. I didn't even know the judgment ever happened. Apparently leaving the papers at an address you haven't lived at for 7 yrs is considered an acceptable serve. Even when your address had been on file for years. I got the truck back the next day. Anyhow, when I went outside to empty all my tools and shit out before the tow I had my CCW on my hip. I had it on when he knocked at the door. Technically he only asked me IF I had a license and not to "show him" my lic. I said "Yes." and continued unloading the truck. When I was done 5 or so min later I took it out just because. He hadn't mentioned it since asking if I had one. He just glanced at it and said "Thanks.".

Once while cutting through RI on my way to bring KurtB's SKS back to him in Mendon I was stopped by a RI trooper for not wearing my seat belt. The rifle was in a case, in the bed of my pickup. The trooper squeaked a little about it being in the bed. I told him it was perfectly legal and that if I stopped to go in a store I put it in the cab. He squeaked a little more and I asked if he was worried someone would come running by at 65 mph and grab the case out of the bed. That was the end of discussing the rifle. Then he asked if there were any other guns. I said "Yes I have a handgun gun on my hip." He never asked to see it or a license for it. He went back to his car and came back with 1 seat belt citation instead of one each for my wife and I.

I say he "squeaked" because he was a little whiny about the rifle but not really being a dick or tough guy about it. He was young prob early 20s. Clearly he was alright since he would have been well within his rights to give me 2 citations instead on just the one.

Considering just how many years I spent OCing damn near daily it is surprising that I have never actually been asked to show my LTC.

 

[Wrench75]

If you're in the habit of always having it, you won't forget it when you "need" it. Additionally, have you ever "lost" a cartridge in your car? If Officer Friendly decides to jam you up, he can use the lack of LTC as an avenue if he finds the ammo. ( I know I know, edge case, but it's still the law).

Does anyone know if this is actually true? Even if you don't have your LTC on your person, it would take no more time than running your DL, SSN, etc. to find out that you in fact have a valid LTC. Obviously it would cause you a delay, but I seriously doubt you'd get jammed up over it.

I'm not gonna dig to link to it but, if you go to the MGL 140-131 and scroll to where it talks about the penalties for carrying without a license. It actually has a line to the effect of "If the only reason you are carrying without a license is because you don't have your active license physically on your person, the penalty shall not be imposed." I am paraphrasing there but the meaning is the same. If you have an active license you won't get screwed for not having it on you.

Now that does not mean some uber dick of a JBT won't arrest or try to arrest you for it. They can and do arrest for anything or nothing and let the court and ADAs sort the charges out. But you do have the protection of law on your side in that case and any lawyer worth a dam should be able to have any charges related to carrying without a license dropped.

 

[fencer]

Dumb question: I have a second wallet that I carry if I don't want a big fat wallet with lots of cards in it breaking up the lines of my clothes. (E.g. if I'm wearing a suit, or tight jeans.....

Would it be prudent to have my Mass. LTC on me, even if I'm not in possession of a firearm or ammunition?

I will take " things straight guys never say for $800, Alex"

Biggest reason to always carry your LTC, aside from the notion that you should always be carrying, is what if you happen upon a stupid good deal? Once had a buddy called me to tell me that the local WalMart had priced 250 round Value packs of 45 at 100 round price. Rushed over and got the last 2.

Just thinking about a scenario where Officer Friendly runs my plate through SCMODS and finds out I have an LTC. "Any guns in the car," etc., etc. As far as I know there's no legal requirement to have it in possession unless you're in possession of guns and ammo, but you never know. Massprudence, I guess.

But it would be a PITA if a round or two has fallen on the floor and the cop was going by the book.

Got pulled over on the bike after picking my daughter up after her first day of school. Left the lot "loudly" and blew past a cop at 60+ in a 25. 1911 in an MOB holster, made reaching for the registration in the fork bag difficult. He wrote me a ticket for "non-standard/loud exhaust" and sent me on my way. No idea if he knew I had an LTC, but it could have been ugly.

Got pulled over for "excessive tint" in Lowell. After the cop gave me a $235 ticket I cursed him up down and sideways. Told him to go solve an actual crime. Told him "I pay your salary..." Flipped him off as he drove away. Also never asked if I carried, was armed, etc.

Got pulled over for burnt out license plate light 100 yards after pulling out of a liquor store. Cop saw the k-bar stuck between the seat and center console, asked if I had anything else in the car. "1911 on my right hip." "Got a license for it?" "Yup" "ok, get that light fixed, have a good night"

Wardrobe malfunction (hitching the jeans after exiting the car) at Walmart. Old biddy ratted me out to 911. Popo showed up while I was inside. Nice chat: "Carrying?"
Yup.
License?
Yup.
Can I see it?
Here.
Thanks. Be more careful, people are stupid.
Yup.

So, not sure how to answer the poll

LOL - yeah that is a tough one. Didn't see a " swore at and flipped off LEO " category, or " Was doing more than double the speed limit, with loud pipes..... leaving a school" option for the poll. Guess you will just have to go with "Other"

 

[PaulR]

I almost forgot I had to do this until I got half way through the thread.
About 5 years ago when I was a total newb, honestly I think my VERY FIRST TIME TO THE RANGE.

Fairview Sportsmans Fish and Game, Granby/Belchertown line it was late fall hunting season. Neither my buddy nor I are hunters so we had no idea they shut down during hunting season so as not to piss off the hunters. We probably went through 100 rounds a piece, were done, walking back up the hill and there up ahead was a Granby cop standing there.
He says "you guys shooting?"
(considering we're laden down with rifles, handguns targets, boxes of ammo and such my buddy and I look at eachother and say..)
"ummmm yea"

Ran our licenses, said they had to call Belchertown since that was the town we were actually in.....Belchertown dispatch was like "yea we don't care, let them go"

I called the Prez of the club the next day and apologized profusely as we honestly had no idea the range was shut down at that time.

 

[FalArAk]

Why do so many of you have your LTC card visible when you open up your wallet? Obviously nothing to hide, but it would seem prudent to keep it out of plain sight to minimize any unwanted attention.

It's the same mentality as bumper stickers and listing every license and club you belong to in your NES signature

 

[whacko]

Why do so many of you have your LTC card visible when you open up your wallet? Obviously nothing to hide, but it would seem prudent to keep it out of plain sight to minimize any unwanted attention.

These are the same people that whip out there LTC when asked for ID for proof of age at the bar (of course when the bar tender is a hotty) and bitch when told it is not valid even though DOB is on the back.......then when asked to show an LTC in NH to buy ammo they come to NES and piss and moan cuz they were asked to show it!

 

[UncleDuke]

In Ohio about a year after they began issuing the CHL I was stopped for no apparent reason other than having a CHL. In Ohio the CHL's are linked to your Driver License or State ID, although you have to produce both on demand when a law enforcement officer asks for them. They (the CHL's) originally came up as a warrant if a law enforcement officer ran a license plate that was registered to a CHL holder. I have had cops run my plate while stopped at traffic lights when I've sat in front of them or they have followed me and then been pulled over to see if I am carrying or what I'm carrying. I haven't been stopped in MA, although I have in NJ (I didn't have anything on me) and in NY when I was crossing over to Niagara Falls, ON at the border/customs checkpoint. The RCMP officer asked me for my Driver License and after running it discovered that I had a CHL and promptly asked me if I had any guns on me. I told him "no" and gave him a rationale that I didn't want my guns confiscated because it would place me in violation of Canadian laws without a permit. He then suggested that I was just another ignorant NRA member and that having a CHL was a waste of money if I wasn't going to carry a gun. I asked him if he thought I should return to Ohio, get my high capacity FN57 and carry it with me in Canada. He called me an ******* and warned me not to carry in Canada. I thanked him for his service to the Dominion. He let me go. So much for international relations.

 

[rivet_42]

I will take " things straight guys never say for $800, Alex"

Hey, someone was paying attention!

Biggest reason to always carry your LTC, aside from the notion that you should always be carrying, is what if you happen upon a stupid good deal? Once had a buddy called me to tell me that the local WalMart had priced 250 round Value packs of 45 at 100 round price. Rushed over and got the last 2.

Good point.

But it would be a PITA if a round or two has fallen on the floor and the cop was going by the book.

I'm very scrupulous about not dropping cartridges or spent brass in my car. I don't know how realistic a worry this is but it seems to me that if I were to leave an unlicensed friend alone in my car and there were some spent brass or a live cartridge somewhere in the car with them, they could get jacked up for unlicensed possession. That'd be a nasty thing to do to someone through carelessness.

 

[Gidge]

Because people are stupid and don't think about things like that. Mine is always well hidden.

-Mike

Yeah, we who live in MA have to fear moonbats who have 911 on speed-dial for those of us who do not conform to their anti-2A worldview.

When I open my wallet, and generally, I am the only one to open my wallet (sometimes I allow the wife in there) you can read "Commonwealth of Massachusetts" on the top of the LTC --big deal --as someone above said, it could be a library card, an ID card or whatever.

 

[drgrant]

Yeah, we who live in MA have to fear moonbats who have 911 on speed-dial for those of us who do not conform to their anti-2A worldview.

When I open my wallet, and generally, I am the only one to open my wallet (sometimes I allow the wife in there) you can read "Commonwealth of Massachusetts" on the top of the LTC --big deal --as someone above said, it could be a library card, an ID card or whatever.

That's more than enough for a cop to know what it is, though. Even outside of shitholes like MA, I would never store a firearms license in a place where it could be "made" just by opening the wallet. By not "showing your hand" you constrain the traffic stop to being about what you got stopped for and nothing more. Honestly the one time I was "looked up in the computer" it was like at 3 in the morning and I was literally the only car on the road, and the distinct impression I got from the trooper was that he was bored as hell and basically fishing. He was professional, and polite, but it was pretty apparent to me that the guy had a surf casting rod in his hand....

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

I almost forgot I had to do this until I got half way through the thread.
About 5 years ago when I was a total newb, honestly I think my VERY FIRST TIME TO THE RANGE.

Fairview Sportsmans Fish and Game, Granby/Belchertown line it was late fall hunting season. Neither my buddy nor I are hunters so we had no idea they shut down during hunting season so as not to piss off the hunters. We probably went through 100 rounds a piece, were done, walking back up the hill and there up ahead was a Granby cop standing there.
He says "you guys shooting?"
(considering we're laden down with rifles, handguns targets, boxes of ammo and such my buddy and I look at eachother and say..)
"ummmm yea"

Ran our licenses, said they had to call Belchertown since that was the town we were actually in.....Belchertown dispatch was like "yea we don't care, let them go"

I called the Prez of the club the next day and apologized profusely as we honestly had no idea the range was shut down at that time.

So nobody bothered to put a sign up that said "Range Closed until XX/XX" ?

-Mike

 

[M1911]

I've been asked by an EPO while hunting.

I've been stopped in MA for traffic violations on four occasions (State Police, Wayland PD, Watertown PD, and Framingham PD). They never asked about weapons or LTC.

 

[CrackPot]

Unless you are in a state the requires disclosure upon contact with the popo. In Texas when asked to produce your driver's license you most also produce your carry permit if you are carrying. When in Texas I do keep drivers license and permit together since they will always have to be produced at the same time. I actually keep drivers license (MA) permit and state ID (TX) together since they dont all match...

That's more than enough for a cop to know what it is, though. Even outside of shitholes like MA, I would never store a firearms license in a place where it could be "made" just by opening the wallet. By not "showing your hand" you constrain the traffic stop to being about what you got stopped for and nothing more. Honestly the one time I was "looked up in the computer" it was like at 3 in the morning and I was literally the only car on the road, and the distinct impression I got from the trooper was that he was bored as hell and basically fishing. He was professional, and polite, but it was pretty apparent to me that the guy had a surf casting rod in his hand....

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Unless you are in a state the requires disclosure upon contact with the popo. In Texas when asked to produce your driver's license you most also produce your carry permit if you are carrying.

That's different but that applies to like what, less than 10 shall issue states in the entire country? (number's probably less than that, even). I would still conceal the license regardless, what if I'm not carrying? Then I don't need to disclose at all. If I have the card "exposed by default' it's a "tell" that they just don't need to see.

-Mike

 

[TomMontana]

Some of you guys must have Costanza's wallet if it becomes a challenge to locate your LTC card unless it was front and center.

 

[FalArAk]

I think you are missing the point..These people WANT the license to be seen everytime they open their wallet..Ease of access to the license is just a micro-aggression.

 

[MisterHappy]

I think you are missing the point..These people WANT the license to be seen everytime they open their wallet..Ease of access to the license is just a micro-aggression.

Actually, I've met a few shooters by noting the LTC in the wallet - "Where do you shoot?"

I mean, it's not like in the PRM that being Out Loud and Proud is a usual thing....

Mine is hidden under a flap.

 

[AHM]

... As far as I know there's no legal requirement to have [an LTC] in possession unless you're in possession of guns and ammo, but you never know. Massprudence, I guess.

Does anyone know if this is actually true? Even if you don't have your LTC on your person, it would take no more time than running your DL, SSN, etc. to find out that you in fact have a valid LTC. Obviously it would cause you a delay, but I seriously doubt you'd get jammed up over it.

I'm not gonna dig to link to it but, if you go to the MGL 140-131 and scroll to where it talks about the penalties for carrying without a license. It actually has a line to the effect of "If the only reason you are carrying without a license is because you don't have your active license physically on your person, the penalty shall not be imposed." I am paraphrasing there but the meaning is the same. If you have an active license you won't get screwed for not having it on you.

Now that does not mean some uber dick of a JBT won't arrest or try to arrest you for it. They can and do arrest for anything or nothing and let the court and ADAs sort the charges out. But you do have the protection of law on your side in that case and any lawyer worth a dam should be able to have any charges related to carrying without a license dropped.

I don't want to try to parse C140 §131 tonight, but note C140 §129c (last paragraph):

Any person who, while not being within the limits of his own property or residence, or such person whose property or residence is under lawful search, and who is not exempt under this section, shall on demand of a police officer or other law enforcement officer, exhibit his license to carry firearms, or his firearm identification card or receipt for fee paid for such card, or, after January first, nineteen hundred and seventy, exhibit a valid hunting license issued to him which shall bear the number officially inscribed of such license to carry or card if any. Upon failure to do so such person may be required to surrender to such officer said firearm, rifle or shotgun which shall be taken into custody as under the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine D, except that such firearm, rifle or shotgun shall be returned forthwith upon presentation within thirty days of said license to carry firearms, firearm identification card or receipt for fee paid for such card or hunting license as hereinbefore described.

Note that you [may] have to surrender "said firearm" (singular), but it doesn't actually say what firearm (singular). If you're packing two or more, who gets to choose?

Any person subject to the conditions of this paragraph may, even though no firearm, rifle or shotgun was surrendered, be required to produce within thirty days said license to carry firearms, firearm identification card or receipt for fee paid for such card, or said hunting license, failing which the conditions of section one hundred and twenty-nine D will apply.

Whatever.

Nothing in this section shall prevent any person from being prosecuted for any violation of this chapter.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

The More They Overthink the Plumbing,​

the Easier it is to Stop Up the Drain Dept.​

​

Interesting Point #1:

If you don't have any firearm/rifle/shotgun, then they can seize the null set of guns.
But if you can produce a license the next day, they have to return them to you.

Interesting Point #2:

C140 §129c does not give cops the power to seize any ammunition in the same fashion. (Maybe it's implicit that they can seize unlicensed contraband, though; so let's not play any stupid games out there).

Why do so many of you have your LTC card visible when you open up your wallet? Obviously nothing to hide, but it would seem prudent to keep it out of plain sight to minimize any unwanted attention.

These are the same people that whip out there LTC when asked for ID for proof of age at the bar (of course when the bar tender is a hotty) and bitch when told it is not valid even though DOB is on the back...

Little known fact:
An MA LTC-A/NR is sufficient proof of age to buy a bottle of Blue Line gin in Old Forge, NY.

 

[In God We Trust]

Got pulled over for "excessive tint" in Lowell. After the cop gave me a $235 ticket I cursed him up down and sideways. Told him to go solve an actual crime. Told him "I pay your salary..." Flipped him off as he drove away. Also never asked if I carried, was armed, etc.

Wow. You're a bit of a dick, huh?