Should Dealers Boycott

[Bob's Gun & Archery Shop]

Should all Mass Dealers start a boycott on distributors that refuse to sell non mass compliant guns? I have been getting sick of dealing with distributors that refuse to sell legal guns for outside of the state sales.Or for that matter refusing to sell to a mass dealer period. And when you try to talk to the people who made the decisions to red flag mass dealers,they refuse the call.

Just wondering what other dealers feel about this BS. I recently found a gold mine of Glock made in 1995 17's and when I told them to send me everything they had they said sorry we don't deal with Mass. After repeatedly pleading and telling them they are legal for sale in MA, they flat out said your state is to confusing to deal with sorry.

 

[PatMcD]

Sounds like a great business oportunity for someone. Why not become a distributor and supply Mass dealers with all the stuff you have been denied?

 

[Mike-Mike]

Should all Mass Dealers start a boycott on distributors that refuse to sell non mass compliant guns? I have been getting sick of dealing with distributors that refuse to sell legal guns for outside of the state sales.Or for that matter refusing to sell to a mass dealer period. And when you try to talk to the people who made the decisions to red flag mass dealers,they refuse the call.

Just wondering what other dealers feel about this BS. I recently found a gold mine of Glock made in 1995 17's and when I told them to send me everything they had they said sorry we don't deal with Mass. After repeatedly pleading and telling them they are legal for sale in MA, they flat out said your state is to confusing to deal with sorry.

Don't you get it. They are boycotting us.

 

[doobie]

Boycotting the boycotter's... I doubt they would care.

 

[jdubois]

Boycotting the boycotter's... I doubt they would care.

Agreed. They won't care. You'd just further isolate yourself.

 

[BOBKATT]

If you guys all boycott one thing and stop selling where it is in high demand I'm going to keep selling it and make a killing on it. Then one by one you guys will trickle on back and start cashing in on the market. This is the reason that boycotts won't work.

 

[TonyD]

It's not the dealer's fault.

 

[Gabe]

Should all Mass Dealers start a boycott on distributors that refuse to sell non mass compliant guns? I have been getting sick of dealing with distributors that refuse to sell legal guns for outside of the state sales.Or for that matter refusing to sell to a mass dealer period. And when you try to talk to the people who made the decisions to red flag mass dealers,they refuse the call.

Just wondering what other dealers feel about this BS. I recently found a gold mine of Glock made in 1995 17's and when I told them to send me everything they had they said sorry we don't deal with Mass. After repeatedly pleading and telling them they are legal for sale in MA, they flat out said your state is to confusing to deal with sorry.

Good question. I agree with Mike-Mike that it's they who are boycotting you, not the other way around. So in light of this, you have to ask, "How do I break this boycott?" Or, "How can I be the exception to their boycott?"

Is there any way for you to get better acquainted with anyone in a distributorship? If you had a good relationship with just one person who had some pull, he/she could make an exception to their policy concerning MA just for you, and then you'd have a nice advantage over your competitors. It would basically look like: "I know this guy, he knows what he's doing, and he won't get us into trouble with their AG." You might need to offer some sort of assurance that they will not entail the AG's wrath, I don't know.

 

[Dirtypacman]

I don't know man maybe you could start a petition at the store for customer's to sign (or initial) showing interest for said product line. If you show them 25-50 customers who are interested in their product maybe they would reconsider.

Anyway you look at it though it still sucks.

 

[Skald]

I can see your frustration, but the AG's office (and the state in general) has slowly been going anti-business (esp. when dealing with guns) to the point that its safer and cheaper to just not deal with the state given its small portion of the sales pie.

If you are heading to Shot 2009 in Orlando consider a sit down with one of the Firearms Atty's here to help you draw up a small 'doing business' in MA in relation to firearms, citing the laws they could be worried about etc. Arrange with the lawyer to be available for questions in case their legal department has any.

When meeting with them let them know you understand their hesitation but would like to see if there are ways to alleviate their fears.

Above all, be courteous and if they choose not to supply you with firearms ask them about accessories and such, building a relationship with them. They may say no at first, but if you order from them they may seek to get more of your business.

Sometimes you have to do the legwork because the Mass. market is just NOT worth it to some businesses.

Good luck.

 

[calsdad]

The reason why dealers from out the state refuse to do business with Massachusetts - is because they perceive us to be a bunch of liberal lunatics whose politicians and attorney general stick their nose into everbody's business - even if said business is not in MA.

And rightly so.

If we start boycotting dealers from outside the state - or dealers within the state - that will only add to the perception of lunacy that many people have of this state. That will not help us in the end.

As hard as it is to take - the only acceptable way to stop this kind of crap is to somehow turn around the politics of this state. And I think that the only way that is going to happen is thru outright collapse of the current political culture thru some sort of devastating failure of MA politics. Given the way the economy is going - these things are coming into the realm of possibility. We need wholesale change in this state - it may be coming, but it won't come thru boycotting gun dealers.

 

[drgrant]

I don't really see the point. If they're not selling stuff to MA as it is, boycotting them in return won't really accomplish much, because they've already "self denied" sales to MA to begin with. It's about as good as a person without a driver's license boycotting a car manufacturer- the car manufacturer won't feel a damned thing, really.

-Mike

 

[securityboy]

Should all Mass Dealers start a boycott on distributors that refuse to sell non mass compliant guns? I have been getting sick of dealing with distributors that refuse to sell legal guns for outside of the state sales.Or for that matter refusing to sell to a mass dealer period. And when you try to talk to the people who made the decisions to red flag mass dealers,they refuse the call.

Just wondering what other dealers feel about this BS. I recently found a gold mine of Glock made in 1995 17's and when I told them to send me everything they had they said sorry we don't deal with Mass. After repeatedly pleading and telling them they are legal for sale in MA, they flat out said your state is to confusing to deal with sorry.

Yes that is a great idea from this point forward I promise I won't buy another thing from anyone who won't sell it to me

 

[Bob's Gun & Archery Shop]

I don't really see the point. If they're not selling stuff to MA as it is, boycotting them in return won't really accomplish much, because they've already "self denied" sales to MA to begin with. It's about as good as a person without a driver's license boycotting a car manufacturer- the car manufacturer won't feel a damned thing, really.

-Mike

maybe I should have clarified my post I am talking about distributors I already do major business with. It just Ticks me off when they stop a legal transfer, but have no problem selling all of the compliant guns.

There are a lot of dealers in MA doing business with distributors that have this BS rule in place.

 

[maee]

Talk about shoot yourself in the foot / bite the hand that feeds you. The last thing we need to do is start boycotting any firearms company that will sell anything to MA. Hell, they should be given an award for having the intestinal fortitude to be one of the brave few who will even do business with this state.

 

[Len-2A Training]

It's not the dealer's fault.

Tony, I have to respectfully disagree and here's why:

- ALL FFLs (even C&R FFLs) get the book from BATFE with all the states' laws in it.

- Every distributor should have a legal department that reads, interprets and ensures that they are doing everything legally.

- We now live in a "national economy" (wrt to guns, "global" for non-controlled items) whereby even the smallest dealer does significant $$ sales via the Internet to people in any of the 50 states.

- NOTHING in MGLs or the AG's Regs restrict a MA FFL from selling any firearms (for which they have appropriate FFL) to any dealer in the other 49 states. IANAL, but a written contract with the MA Dealer that any non-MA-compliant guns would not be sold within MA (exceptions allowed by law are to LEAs and LEOs-only for those guns on the EOPS List), should cover them legally. Then if the dealer breaks the law/regs, the distributor should be in the clear.

- Guns that are on the EOPS List (e.g. almost every Glock model is) can be legally sold to LEOs, even though they don't meet the AG's Regs.

 

[doobie]

- Every distributor should have a legal department that reads, interprets and ensures that they are doing everything legally.

And with respect to some state laws places like to play safe and err on the side of caution.

 

[goofycj7]

Better answer is what I have heard Barrett did to California.
CA banned 50 cal rifles for personal ownership. THe police in CA ordered the rifles and Barrett turned them down.
The police responce was "but we are the police..."
Barrett's responce we are a private company, we can do what we want. You want them as police make them available to everyone and then we will sell them to you.
If glock, sig and all the other companies did this we would be in much better shape.

 

[Bob's Gun & Archery Shop]

Talk about shoot yourself in the foot / bite the hand that feeds you. The last thing we need to do is start boycotting any firearms company that will sell anything to MA. Hell, they should be given an award for having the intestinal fortitude to be one of the brave few who will even do business with this state.

That attitude is what got us where we are today, be given an award???? for what, refusing to sell legal guns to legal dealers. Last time I checked I was not breaking any laws. But according to you I should shut up kneel down and kiss their you know what, for even dealing with me.

I am sorry but that attitude makes me ill, I guess in another 40 years you can sit down with your grandchildren and look through the old gun mags saying yup grandpa used to own those guns.

 

[stinx]

The manufacturers should stop selling weapons here to anybody including the Police. If all the Big Manufacturers did this, plus severly penalized any dealer or distributer who did It might get some peoples attention. The manufactueres should just say Eithier we are allowed to sell our lawful product in your state or we will not sell/support any of our product to your Police Etc. No parts,training, support-nothing period.

 

[06LemansC6]

The manufacturers should stop selling weapons here to anybody including the Police. If all the Big Manufacturers did this, plus severly penalized any dealer or distributer who did It might get some peoples attention. The manufactueres should just say Eithier we are allowed to sell our lawful product in your state or we will not sell/support any of our product to your Police Etc. No parts,training, support-nothing period.

Now THAT would be fun to see.

 

[Skald]

That attitude is what got us where we are today, be given an award???? for what, refusing to sell legal guns to legal dealers. Last time I checked I was not breaking any laws. But according to you I should shut up kneel down and kiss their you know what, for even dealing with me.

I am sorry but that attitude makes me ill, I guess in another 40 years you can sit down with your grandchildren and look through the old gun mags saying yup grandpa used to own those guns.

You as a Dealer needs to remember that the MA AG office has ravenously pursued Gun industry Distr. in other states on things they sold to MA citizens which are legal for them to own and possess and bu IN THE STATE. So you want them to risk a frivolous lawsuit so you can sell stuff? Bottom line, even if it is legal the MA AG may STILL go after you so why bother? The Consumer Safety and EOPS list are backdoor ways to enact further Gun Control in the State of MA.

 

[TonyD]

Tony, I have to respectfully disagree and here's why:

- ALL FFLs (even C&R FFLs) get the book from BATFE with all the states' laws in it.

- Every distributor should have a legal department that reads, interprets and ensures that they are doing everything legally.

- We now live in a "national economy" (wrt to guns, "global" for non-controlled items) whereby even the smallest dealer does significant $$ sales via the Internet to people in any of the 50 states.

- NOTHING in MGLs or the AG's Regs restrict a MA FFL from selling any firearms (for which they have appropriate FFL) to any dealer in the other 49 states. IANAL, but a written contract with the MA Dealer that any non-MA-compliant guns would not be sold within MA (exceptions allowed by law are to LEAs and LEOs-only for those guns on the EOPS List), should cover them legally. Then if the dealer breaks the law/regs, the distributor should be in the clear.

- Guns that are on the EOPS List (e.g. almost every Glock model is) can be legally sold to LEOs, even though they don't meet the AG's Regs.

Len, with all due respect, I say Bullshit. The only reason this topic is even broached is because of your fallacy of a governing body, i.e. your AG. It's NOT the DEALERS fault your AG engages in illegal trade restrictions and has levied law suits against dealers and suppliers shipping to your pathetic excuse of a state. The issue lies within your state borders, not the dealers/suppliers who make the wise business decision to not get involved in bullshit it doesn't need. The fault lies with your politicians.

49 other states can buy/sell/trade within the regulations - why can't Mass? I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Skald and Tony!

The AG has ONLY gone after dealers and "distributors" who shipped directly to citizens in MA. No out-of-state dealer/"distributor" has been attacked for selling to a MA licensed dealer of goods.

I use "distributor" in quotes since a REAL distributor ONLY sells Wholesale to the trade (whatever trade they are in) and does NOT ever sell direct to consumers.

I have ordered ammo via phone and online PRIOR to the AG going after out-of-state suppliers. In NO case did they ever require any adult signature, proof of age or legality in owning the goods. They literally brought the wrath of the AG upon themselves. I don't agree with the actions by the AG, but some of these guys were blatantly out of control.

The distinction I draw above is what gives credence to the OP's lament. HE (and only he) is on the hook if he sells an "off-list gun" to a MA resident. MA dealers can have stock of goods that can't be sold to residents in their store, they just can't sell them in MA. There is no legal reason for a real distributor to refuse sales to any MA dealer with the appropriate licenses to do business. An agreement not to sell non-compliant items to residents would be a CYA icing on the cake and absolve the distributor of any liability for actions taken by the MA licensed dealer.

 

[TonyD]

Skald and Tony!

The AG has ONLY gone after dealers and "distributors" who shipped directly to citizens in MA. No out-of-state dealer/"distributor" has been attacked for selling to a MA licensed dealer of goods.

I use "distributor" in quotes since a REAL distributor ONLY sells Wholesale to the trade (whatever trade they are in) and does NOT ever sell direct to consumers...

Well, duh. I get shit shipped to me direct from retailers to consumer on a regular basis. So do free citizens in 49 other states. Your AG illegally prohibits legal commerce in your state. I order ammo, powder, bullets, primers. etc. I can order any legal firearm from anywhere in the Country, as long as it goes through a local FFL - can you? Answer: No.

What are you trying to defend? People living outside your state laugh at your state of affairs. But, since we can't make a difference, it doesn't matter. You all put up with what you tolerate.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Tony, the OP is a DEALER in MA. His complaint is valid. He can legally order, purchase and possess (as a dealer) ANY GUN or supplies for resale. The resale may have to go to Non-MA folks for some of those things.

The AG has never beefed about goods shipped to dealers.

Distributors have "decided" to make their own (much more restrictive) rules wrt sales to MA Dealers. Their rationale in such cases is pure bullshit.

None of this has anything to do with what we "tolerate" or "put up with".

 

[Bob's Gun & Archery Shop]

Tony, the OP is a DEALER in MA. His complaint is valid. He can legally order, purchase and possess (as a dealer) ANY GUN or supplies for resale. The resale may have to go to Non-MA folks for some of those things.

The AG has never beefed about goods shipped to dealers.

Distributors have "decided" to make their own (much more restrictive) rules wrt sales to MA Dealers. Their rationale in such cases is pure bullshit.

None of this has anything to do with what we "tolerate" or "put up with".

Lens , thank you

 

[Jake L]

It won't help. These distributors that will not deal with Mass. do not feel there is enough business for the risk.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Jerry's has non-Mass compliant guns in the "restricted" category and won't ship to Mass dealers. If I need something in this category, my son who is a NH FFL brings it in and transfers it to me. Dealers should work together to get what they want. Jack.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Distributors have "decided" to make their own (much more restrictive) rules wrt sales to MA Dealers. Their rationale in such cases is pure bullshit.

All of the facts you state are accurate.

That being agreed, if a distributor asked you to sign an indemnification contract, agreeing to pay, without limit, all legal fees associated with the state of MA alleging a violation in their shipment of a legal product to you as a condition of sale, would you sign it? If the answer is no, you are asking the distributor to underwrite a risk you are not willing to take yourself.